forofilms

14 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

If you're so familiar with the world outside YouTube you'd be aware that OBL was a highly educated Saudi civil engineer and that the majority of the actual hijackers were also Saudi graduates. You'd also be aware that the much-vaunted defence infrastructure was, quite rightly, not ranged against the possibility that airliners making internal flights would be converted to use as missiles. As they say - to be successful the security services have to get it right every time, the terrorists only have to get it right once.

Not ranged against the possibility that airliners could be hijacked and used as weapons? Please. FEMA report, dated June 1999: Emergency Response to Terrorism. Google it.

US Dept of Justice training manual June 2011. Operation Vigilant Guardian: 

Vigilant Guardian, the semiannual NORAD exercise had been running in conjunction with Global Guardian for several days and which postulated a bomber attack from the former Soviet Union. The exercise involves all NORAD command levels.Out of a range of scenarios being run on September 11, 2001, one was a "traditional" simulated hijacking.

9 minutes ago, TwoScoops said:

 

Oh brother. Watching a few fucking conspiracy videos on youtube isn't 'doing research'. 

Haha. Not everyone does their research on youtube. Brother, there is a whole world outside of youtube. I urge you to explore it. 

7 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said:

A nice enough images in certain circumstances, but still looks like there are no reasons to choose it for video over the competition. Buying two A6300s so that you can let them cool down between shots is still cheaper, and better in most measurable ways. The video is more or less a "nice extra" for someone who is committed to Canon kit, and primarily a stills shooter, which I guess for people who are still wedded to cameras with flapping mirrors makes sense

Never thought of this before, pretty good idea. 2 x 6300s = $2000. Takes overheating out of the equation hopefully. 

When is the omd mark ii coming out? Will it be released this year?

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Nobody in their right mind expected FF 4K, so the crop was always going to be a factor. I assumed it was going to be Super 35mm and it pretty much is. And personally, who gives a shit about the codec? The 1Dc and 1dxii samples I have seen look gorgeous. Never once when looking at any sample from either of those cameras have I ever thought... That would look so much nicer if it wasn't recorded in mjpeg. 

The output of the codec is not the problem - it's the data size and file management issues that are. It's an outdated leviathan. 

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk, part of the whole DSLR movement was using cameras that weren't perfect but the benefits outweighed the minuses. With Canon colors and reliability you are getting that. This idea that Canon or Sony or whoever should manufacture a camera that meets every specific need of a relatively small niche market is ludicrous. It doesn't matter anyway, in a month when user videos start compiling and AR decides to buy one anyway and gives it a glowing review, the crickets from the regular Canon detractors will start sounding and everyone will be reminded why Canon is on top. Their color science is the best and their products work. 

The End. 

I doubt that AR will give it a positive review when it's handicapped to start and has a $3,500 price tag. Ergonomics and color science simply cannot overcome the crop and antiquated codec. 

5 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

WIth 1.4x crop this camera would have been acceptable even without ibis nor 10bit. I mean, 1.74crop, lol really.

I can't decide which is worse, the 1.74 crop or the fact they left log, peaking and an updated codec out. 

5 minutes ago, swithdrawn said:

You're right, people aren't seeing the whole picture. They're seeing an extremely cropped picture. It's fine if you like the XC10 and if you like the 5DIV and they fulfill your needs. But seriously it's 2016 and yes I need the ability to change lenses and yes I need at least APS-C and yes it's reasonable to expect this in a $3500 dollar camera body. The fact that Canon are performing acrobatics to protect their cinema line while the competition leaves them in the dust is infuriating to everyone with huge Canon glass investment. Canon bodies have their strengths with color and reliability, but it doesn't matter how great this camera ends up being in the real world, the crop is simply a deal breaker. 

The most insulting thing they're doing is purposefully handicapping their cameras to protect overpriced, video-only segments. And most of it is just a few lines of code. That's what's most upsetting. 

27 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Where have I heard all this before....?

Oh that's right, after every single camera Canon has released. Same complaints. And all the prior times cameras that where so so hated like the 5Dmkiii, C300, C100, 1DC and XC10 all ended up being loved in the end.

Why is that, what was it that made all the hate go away....?

Oh that's right, people actually used it instead of looking at numbers and charts.

No I'm not a fanboy, don't own a canon and won't buy the 5Div. But I know the story.

Same thing with the XC10. It was almost only the fact that it got so much hate that interested me enough to buy it. I was the first to give it a positive review, since I had actually used it. And man did I had to sit through pissed of comments.

The reason I think history will repeat itself is that its Canon. People always glance at a spec paper and think they automatically have the whole picture. They think a huge company and market leader like Canon would just put something together and not think it through very very very very very veeeery thoroughly. 

My money is on they knowing exactly what they are doing. And I don't think we are going to see thread after thread about bad color, fpn, over heating, etc.

Personally I might get an mkiii again when they drop.

I prepared a bit by buying an even older member of their top prosumer line. So yes, by tomorrow I own a Canon and therefore by forum law I will be a Fanboy-sheep-idiot-uneducated-noob. Basically anything accept someone who likes the camera, because the specs makes that impossible...

Here we go. Canon rep to the rescue...

"Not a fanboy, don't own a Canon" and then, "Bought the xc10, was the first to give it a positive review". Somehow those two don't jive for me. 

1 minute ago, swithdrawn said:

Yeah until you point it anywhere near a blue LED at a wedding reception or concert. 

No camera is perfect. I'll live with the blue LEDs over a 1.74 crop and $3,500 price tag. 

7 hours ago, Antonio Pineda said:

1.74 is the crop :/

Hate to say but I'm done with Canon

9 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said:

I don't care about the Sony color brigade, so much of what I see here is the same mushy resolution and blown out highlights that made me sell the Mark III in the first place. Say what you want about the colours, but when someone nails SLOG on the A7RII or SII, it looks stunning.

Yeah, but have you seen those Canon colors??? Hahaha

Embarassing. Go away Canon. 

8 minutes ago, Django said:

indeed it's why i said YMMV depending on your shooting scenario. personally ergonomics is a must. but the real deal breaker for me is the horrendous rolling shutter, never seen something so bad in a camera tbh!

 

that's because A7S does full pixel readout and 5D3 bins.. but 5D3 resolution is still 1080p even if softer then A7S etc..

I know, but as a user, i don't care about what's going on under the hood, I only care about the final outcome. And the 5diii's outcome is short of true 1080p,

20 minutes ago, Django said:

^ i suggest you read the other thread i linked.. SMH

5D3 does 1080p. it betters the A6300 in that it's native full frame, has audio output, much much much less rolling shutter, no overheat issues, longer battery life, slightly bigger screen/resolution, axis display and overall better ergonomics, especially if you're shooting manual. of course YMMV. different types of shooters may have different types of priorities.. and you said it yourself a6300 isn't for run & gun..

As has been brought up numerous times, 5diii resolution is closer to that of 720p than 1080p.

If you have doubts about this, please do a first-hand comparison of the a7s' 1080 image with that of Canon's "1080" image.  

1 hour ago, hmcindie said:

 the a6300 is not a better camera than the 5d3, no matter how much you look at the sensor results.

Are you talking photography or video? If the latter, I'm sorry, but 720p doesn't touch 4k, at least not for me. No chance the 5diii is better than an a6300.

27 minutes ago, Django said:

lol quite obviously. we are talking top bill FF DSLR versus a consumer pocket camera without even a viewfinder. I'd never consider a A6300 over my 5D3 or even a 6D. Too many compromises on usage but fact remains that sony gives access to full readout APS-C 4K, zebra/peaking & S-Log3 for $1K. Add a speedbooster and it's FF 4K! And of course native FF 4K with clean 4K HDMI output, EVF, SLOG, IBIS etc.. for $3K on the A7S2.  Sony offers all this, even though they also have a pricey FS cinema cam line. So my point is simply that Canon could include a few of these goodies on their 3.800 euro flagship 5D4. But no dice. Also, sorry for beating a dead horse here but 1.7x crop is just a real bummer. I buy a Full Frame for a Full Frame look/experience. It becomes even more important with 4K where you'd like the possibility of a jump-in crop in full HD timeline. Well now on the 5D4, my 35mm 1.4 L becomes a 60mm native in 4K.. and my widest 24mm L becomes a 40mm..  that just makes me cringe..

The bolded above is the critical point.

Put a speedbooster on an a6300 and you have full readout 4k FF with zebra, peaking and log. For under $1500!!

I slap on a Canon 24-105 and have 24-105mm F2.8 full frame 4k!! It's crazy.

Does it overheat in warm weather and extended shoots. Yes. I've been a victim of it myself more than once on paid gigs. Manage your shoot. The camera isn't meant for run-n-gun doco shoots. Get a C100 instead.

35 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Speaking of lies,
Please link to a site, forum or blog where I have ever told you or anybody what you/they do or dont need.

You can debate all you want but dont lie about me. Because then your just an ass instead of a person with an opinion different from mine whom I would respect.
Asses that try to force their opinion on others and turn every single stone to find any half ass reason to why people use a camera accept that they might actually like it, I dont respect at all.
 

 

This is what you wrote:

"The specs so far look great imo. I could imagine myself buying it.
The Codec is the main selling point for me. Also the crop is welcomed."

It's a bunch of horseshit imho. 

36 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Yea, right.... I guess all those guys at the Olympics are just fanboys or paid by Canon?

No, it's because they're invested up to the eyeballs in Canon glass. 

5 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

If you think Sony is stupid, that's up to you.

You can debate from any perspective you want. But if you exclude "weekend warriors, vloggers, Japanese tourists and moonlighting wedding photographers", then there is like 2 people left for you to debate. 

BTW, if that's the criteria there is no way you can talk about the GH4 and A7x. Its not like they are A-cams on anything above what you just dismissed.

In other words, your logic is very confusing to me and I feel that debating you further gets us no where fast.

I will continue to speak about the 5Dmkiv for what it is and don't care if you only want to focus on certain perspectives. Your just gonna have to ignore my posts.

 

Okay, fair enough. but just don't lie, man. Don't tell me its a competitive offering when it comes to video features. Don't try and tell me or anyone here that we don't need log and peaking at a $3500 price. Don't tell me the MJPEG codec is innovative. And certainly, don't tell me that crop is "welcomed" on piece of kit at this price point.  

14 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

So to sum up:

Canon are stupid for not focusing on video in whats probably the most successful DSLR line in history. Even though the video shooters are just a tiny tiny tiny minority among the buyers of still cameras.

The professionals as well as amateurs that buy it are just stupid and uneducated. No way they could actually like it.

Its better to have a +$3000 camera overheat in the middle of a job than to make it work.

Me who own 0 products from canon but have bought pretty much every camera Sony ever made obviously work for Canon.

The absolute majority of professional still shooters buy Canon or Nikon. But they will now switch to m4/3 because the 5D doesn't have C-Log.

Yeah.. I'm not sure.This is my prediction:

It will be the most sold fullframe DSLR for the next 5 years.

Here at EOSHD forums we are a highly-specialized, niche segment of the market. We speak and critique from that perspective.

I really don't care what the weekend warriors, vloggers, Japanese tourists and moonlighting wedding photographers do with their resources and purchasing decisions. 

I'm sure Canon will sell well. That's not what we're discussing. The question to debate is whether the 5Dmiv is a competent tool for this community and whether it delivers the performance and value that we would expect from a $3200-3800 body.   

Canon is free to turn up their noses at any segment they wish - yes, they will still sell to the hordes - but we are free to critique their merchandise and when we feel it's not up to par in the marketplace, free to state so. Just because they sell tons of cameras doesn't necessarily mean their cameras are adequate tools for sophisticated hybrid shooters. This is the perspective I'm critiquing them from. 

Sony is releasing products geared to what you call a "tiny tiny tiny minority" - now why do you think such a big company is focusing on such a "tiny" segment? I guess Sony is jsut stupid, right?

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah, the personal side of me gets a little annoyed that they don't include all of the above, but the business side of me doesn't blame them. It's market segmentation.

The real issue is that Canon has way too many camera models and too many benchmarks for each line. But if you look at their models and the features they include in each respective camera, their company strategy is pretty evident. And it seems to be working for them...

But because of this segmentation, some consumers (such as myself) are not purchasing Canon bodies. Yes, I could invest into the cinema line, but I'd paying more for the equivalent I get in Sony and I lose the stills capability.

The segment that Canon is choosing to ignore is the hybrid shooter out there who has a need for sophisticated video features. Sony (and Panasonic to a lesser degree) is exploiting this segment because of it.

Yes, Sony products are far from perfect. But where else can you get a full frame, 4k camera with video assist features and log that can competently shoot stills? Is that too much to ask in 2016? Is that too much to ask from Canon?

43 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm sorry but how many times do people need to be told by Canon that they will not include C-Log in cameras that are not part of the C Series before they will believe them?

You cannot logically blame Canon for not including something they have repeatedly told the world they will not include...

It reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity. 

However, with the price drop of the 1dC, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon releases a 5dC. 

Doesn't change the fact that it's poor customer service. 

You're right, people should expect Canon to not pander to their lobbying. Live with Canon's shoddy response or shift loyalties to another company. 

Canon's ecosystem is keeping customers around but the more they continue to underwhelm and the more that competing companies innovate and address peoples needs, it's inevitable they're going to see some attrition over time. 

But let's admit it, to not add a line of code to provide peaking and zebras is just a bitch-slap to the face. 

On 17/08/2016 at 9:21 AM, Mattias Burling said:

I dont give a crap about specs. I care about how it preforms. Just look at the Sony A7sii, a6300 and GH4. Great specs but suck ass compared to a 5Dmkiii.

You have obviously never used these cameras. When in capable hands they can be more than just capable tools. GH4 is far more operator-friendly than a 5Dmiii. a6300 works well when used in the right way. Overheats, yes, but the results are stunning. 

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

The specs so far look great imo. I could imagine myself buying it.
The Codec is the main selling point for me. Also the crop is welcomed.
 

In all seriousness, do you work for Canon?

The specs are underwhelming, the codec is a prehistoric albatross and the crop is certainly not welcomed. 

$30,000 for this? I guess it goes to show you don't always get what you pay for...

This guy proves it'll be at least another 10 years before stabilizers can handle the chimichanga dance.

I find it hard to believe that Canon would not black out the logo or put the camera in some kind of a skin to deter attention. 

Pre-ordered.

This is just the tool I need for my vlogging and home videos...

On 06/03/2016 at 1:25 PM, wolf33d said:

Amazing AF and impressive 4k60p. With Canon colours and ergonomics and lenses. Sounds great.... 

But I do not have 6k to put in a camera. If only the 5DIV would have those specs.

But 5DIV will have 4k30p and 2k60p unfortunately. 
What a mess, each time a new product is released it's always missing some features another product has. 

Would Canon ever give us a mirrorless camera in a 5D body with touch screen tilt screen and 1DXII video specs? 

Nope. 

Sony has the specs but I sold my A7RII already. It is a non joy to use. A pure shit actually in everything but specs. I spent my 2 weeks shooting with it in Cuba changing settings all the time instead of actually shooting.

 

 

What did you go back to instead?