Andrew Reid

Noise reduction in post doesn't give you extra dynamic range JCS or make colour any better, you still need to adjust the curve to put contrast back into the image, thus trading the dynamic range of the flat LOG profile for acceptable colour and contrast. It makes ZERO sense to count the number of stops in a LOG file from a well lit chart. What matters is the quality of colour, tonality, how much detail is in there. When detail is smudged away by noise in the lows, noise reduction isn't going to bring it back. I am aware of that The A7S 4K files aren't tiny at all. ProRes LT is around 350-400Mbit/s compared to 500Mbit/s on the 1D C. The 1080p internal is 50Mbit/s so of course that is going to be smaller isn't it!? Thanks for the tip assistant editor! Haven't you just counteracted your own argument with that then?! Artistically the 1D C looks better and if you can't see that, then you've got, shall we say, "interesting" tastes! ​Already compared 5D 3 raw dynamic range to 1D C briefly but since this was a year and a half ago, it's a bit hazy in my mind. The 1D C won but can't remember by how much. The 5D 3 shadows in raw get a bit noisy and the highlights clip quite suddenly. They are not a million miles apart though. The advantage of the 1D C is that it works properly, 100% of the time, with smaller file sizes and 4K resolution.

When a camera like the GH2 or NX1 lacks a flat image profile or LOG gamma, people tend to measure the usable dynamic range from the Rec.709 punchy image it delivers. They shoot a dynamic range test chart and the camera crushes the blacks like it's supposed to, then they go "oh, it lacks dynamic range!" It's such a bad way to test. In reality, LOG is there to be graded. Only once you grade it for acceptable colour and contrast can you see how much dynamic range you have left over. That's the usable dynamic range. The NX1 has no slight aliasing issues compared to the GH2. The GH2 has much more aliasing at 1:1 in the image and it only has at best around 1 quarter of the detail of the NX1's 4K!

Those 14 stops are coming from the sensor, then they are compressed into the LOG image in 8bit. That loses you at least 2-3 stops of USABLE dynamic range OR fucks colour up, depending on how you grade it. To even SEE those 14 stops you have to leave the image flat and measure the chart off that like C5D have done. Who uses that as their final look?! SLOG is there to be graded and those blacks crushed back! If you don't you have horrible ugly contrast and colour and noise in the shadows, not worth it to say you've achieved 14 stops really is it!? 1D C is 12 stops and almost all of it is usable in your grade. If A7S is 14.1 stops like an Arri Amira or Alexa like C5D claim with their flawed testing then I am santa claus. You might be able to get 14 stops out of a test chart with it but 14 stops of usable colour and detail after grading it? NO WAY. If anything it has been scientifically proven in other tests that 14 stops in 8bit LOG is impossible anyway! The bottom and top of the file on the Amira will be golden, lovely colour & accuracy, zero noise. The bottom and top two stops on the A7S are a total mess by comparison but because of C5D's Sony bias they don't mention that. It's the quality of the dynamic range that matters not the fact that SLOG has such a flat image it can see some grey shades in the shadows of a test chart! I would measure the dynamic range of the FINAL graded image and then assess the way it looks artistically. Any NX1 owners around? Try putting contrast -10. You get more dynamic range but it looks shit. Happy with that? No? Thought not

1D C has gone back up to $12,000 at B&H now, from $9999. So the used prices if you can find one are genuinely a bargain.

Before the GH4, NX1, A7S and Shogun can you remember what we did for 4K on $1500-$2000 interchangeable lens cameras? No neither can I! 2014 has been a great year with some great technology. My top 5 1. The new for 2014 £5000 priced used 1D C! (It's a completely different prospect to what it was at £12,000) 2. A7S & Shogun (£3500) 3. GH4 (£1299) 4. NX1 (£1299) 5. Nikon D750 (£1799) Read the full article

Nice stretch Carl. Come back in a month and see what has transpired.

jcs I really don't understand your point. Maybe you are indeed arguing with an idiot I can show you stuff... present my findings in black and white... you can deny the evidence and have it your way. It doesn't matter to me. If Canon releases a 5D4 with all the features I want I will be very happy! why wouldn't I!? Turmoil on the forums? eh!? There would be a lot of excitement for it yes.

I find it madness that people expect people not to ever change their minds. When the NEX 5n came out, I loved it, great little camera. Had it came out yesterday I would have thought - what the hell is this moire ridden thing!? Times change.

I didn't have the 1D C at the time of the A7S review. Not a single one on eBay in 12 months. Had no idea it was about to become available for £5k. And all judgement is relative. The A7S stand-alone is still the "best mirrorless for video" unless you need the internal 4K. I need the internal 4K! That review is of the A7S as a 1080p camera. Now it must be compared with the new NX1 4K internal and how it performs with the Shogun. I wanted the A7S & Shogun image internally, just didn't get on with it as an external box...I couldn't work with the poor visibility of the screen outdoors, the ergonomics of the battery life. Love the image! But not that! If you can't get a 1D C and are considering the A7S then what's different about the review? Nothing. It's only changed for me. The A7S has not. It's the same camera. A used 1D C and it fixed my issues I had with the A7S & Shogun... namely... - Image quality is better - Internal 4K so no need for separate recorder and the ergonomic problems & battery issues that presented - Replaces ALL my other Canon stills cameras for photos - No need to suffer lens adapter bugs - No need to work around colour issues with S-LOG 2 - Avoids bright blue clipping problem - Price was a bargain used considering launch price of 1D C It would be silly for me to get the 1D C if I didn't think it was right for me.

Peaking does work with any lens. The EVF is better for MF as it shows you the actual depth of field. An optical viewfinder is usually F2.8 max.

DigitalEd. What is a quote of Ivar there and what is you? Can you edit it to make it clearer?

It shouldn't do though. A camera's sensor and colour processing should be consistent from skin tone to skin tone, light to light, as long as you have it right at the time the shot was taken. In post you should be able to convert LOG to Rec.709 and have the colour looking great over everything, again if it was right at the time of the shoot! What I find with the A7S is that for every different skin type, every different light source, every different location I am losing hours in post correcting for a very narrow and fickle performance window re: colour. This problem went away with the 1D C and Canon's sensor. Under interior practical lights on the A7S I have a yellow cast. Under bright blue lights I have clipping. In low light I have to expose completely differently. In daylight I have issues with purple reds. I never had the same inconsistent behaviour with my old GH2 shooting without LOG in rec.709. To be perfectly honest, it's bloody distracting. And with Blackmagic raw or 5D Mark III Magic Lantern raw video I can apply the same LUT to the whole sequence and it will all look the same and consistent no matter what the light or subject or skin. I hate spending hours on a grade fixing stuff, when it could be spent editing.

It has a narrow window of peak performance in terms of colour.

​A strange opinion Carl. "The news" is not trolling. And no of course Canon isn't supposed to notify Magic Lantern of anything (although working with them and communicating to their customers would be a start), but the blocking tactic is there for all to see - the inability to take the camera back to V1.2.3. Unless you don't understand the situation Carl.

Not allowed to change your mind on the internet about cameras apparently 1D C CLOG: A7S SLOG 2: Not good is it? When I originally reviewed the A7S I loved the colour, from picking out the odd shot here and there. Afterwards I spent months developing my own LUTs in Resolve that I could blanket onto an entire sequence in Premiere. Didn't work because each scene / lighting needed their own nob fiddling.

The problem I am having with the A7S is that - yes - colour can look lovely after a lot of work grading in post BUT and it's a bigger but than Beyonce's, you can't apply the same grade to every shot, every lighting circumstance needs it's own 2 hours of fiddling in Resolve. That for me is intolerable really. Also the bright-blues clipping issue is a problem, whenever I happen to have a blue light in the background of the shot I can no longer do what I want with the exposure, I have to "manage the problem" and it becomes tiresome. Still love the A7S, it's great for the price but I need colour that's quick to get right and internal 4K, it is not giving me either sadly.

​Hopefully it won't need any add-on software, because it will just do what we want it do out of the box. 4K, proper focus aids, crop modes, nice codec, 422 colour sampling, articulated screen. But it won't because it's not a Cinema EOS camera.

The framing is different on the window, so it's an invalid test for moire unfortunately.

​That's interesting to hear from Art Adams at DVInfo about the luma vs saturation of blues. Film can't do a bright saturated blue. Alexa caps saturation to avoid the same clipping problem of bright blues the Sony cameras suffer from. That's where the knowledge of film comes in useful. Take a hint Sony.

​Multiple ones. Only happens when Smart Range is enabled.

DigitalEd - what about Dynamic Range in the STILLS menu?

Hardware component changes this late in the age of the product are unheard of and wouldn't affect firmware anyway.

Magic Lantern remains blocked as per the article so the reasons behind it are pretty academic at the moment. Don't buy a new body if you want to use ML.

It's likely they also added some form of encryption. BTW Canon - having to send off the 1D C to a service centre for a firmware update is a real PITA for customers!

Canon look to have blocked Magic Lantern and new 5D Mark III bodies which won't roll back to older firmware. Users are presented with an error saying "firmware older than 1.3 on the card, update using newer version". Read the full article