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My take on the Canon 70D


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#1 EOSHD

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:28 AM

canon 70d-2

Finally after 4 years a genuinely new sensor on a Canon APS-C camera!

The 60D was one of the best value cameras in the Canon range and the 70D is a nice step forward albeit at a higher launch price this time ($1199).

It has a brand new sensor promising improved video quality and reliable AF tracking but the lack of compact flash card slot will hold it back when it comes to any raw video potential.

Read the full article here

#2 fluxo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:50 AM

Sd card slot it´s the only flaw of the 70D, 

hope 7D mark II will be anounced in september when the 70d start selling, and really hope it could be cracked for Raw video.



#3 peederj

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:59 AM

Two important things aren't clear yet before we write off the 70D:

 

1) What the maximum speed of the SD slot is (it could be, e.g. UHS-104 for a theoretical 104MB/s)

2) How the downsampling is achieved from 20MP to 2MP video (it could have more or less moire vs. resolution)

 

I understand clean uncompressed HDMI out will NOT be supported on the 70D. Though everyone's officially supposed to hate external recorders anyway (why?).

 

It's annoying that the stills shooters get all the info they want other than effective DR on announcement but video shooters have to wait for the bad news. Generally anything not revealed is bad news. But I think the SD speeds may be enough for an ML-improved video, even continuous 1080p RAW, because of the claimed 7fps stills throughput along with a buffer that can hold 16 20MP RAW frames...an awful lot of 2MP RAW frames in that case. I imagine the crippling then is once more at the downsampling step...the place ML can't get to.

 

Note how Canon rushed out a meagre (one lens only) autofocus implementation for the C100 just prior to this announcement. Avoiding confusion in the marketplace I suppose. I imagine the next-gen C200/400/600 will use this autofocus technology, and to be honest, I think having AF available is a damn good way to solve a bunch of problems. You can tell the pretenders by their insistence that "real filmmakers would never buy a camera offering autofocus."  :rolleyes:



#4 fluxo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

I think the UHS-1 is the same as the 6D, we should expect the same kind of resolutions.



#5 JHines

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:44 AM

Canon will not release a DSLR that shoots better video than what the current ML 5DIII raw shoots for the next 3 years. We may get some higher resolutions but it will never be raw. "Compressed 8-bit, soft res video 4 life" - Canon



#6 JR Lipartito

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:46 AM

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm expecting the same out-of-the-box video quality as the 6D, ie, moire&aliasing hell. Both cameras are just "step-up" models, and Canon seems to think only "pro" video DSLRs are worthy of clean down-sampling or a headphone jack for that matter! The 7DmkII is more likely to get both of these features and the new auto-focus technology. Only question after that will be whether or not it can be hacked!

#7 jgharding

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:00 AM

innit. I would be very surprised if it's not all moire madness. They'll wanna trickle it all down from a high-end model.

 

so the 800D should have no moire. I-frame, and this 20.2MP sensor... but still 8-bit 4:2-0

 

Meanwhile I'm shooting a 600D with anti-moire filter, lossless 3X crop video mode, all the ML hacks including I-frame varying between 50-165mbps...

 

Lord. 

 

The only upgrade in their range for me is the 5D MKiii...


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#8 Tone13

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:27 AM

EosHD, your losing me. Everything here is RAW this RAW that.

Most people here really don't need RAW or want to deal with the workflow and data rates. I'd very welcome a camera with reduced moire, better codec, 1080p50, peaking, zebras over a camera that shoots RAW any day.

"The 5D III is the image quality king"..... If your happy shooting RAW, if not, it still leaves a lot to be desired. That doesn't make the 70D's image improvements any less worthwhile.

I hope Canon really have improved the video image quality greatly over the 7D and 5D's. it's about time they have us 1080p50 too.

#9 Emanuel

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:50 AM

Andrew is in good way... other than RAW is less, a way less -- but in everything, IQ included


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#10 fluxo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

Andrew is in good way... other than RAW is less, a way less

 

 

EosHD, your losing me. Everything here is RAW this RAW that.

Most people here really don't need RAW or want to deal with the workflow and data rates. I'd very welcome a camera with reduced moire, better codec, 1080p50, peaking, zebras over a camera that shoots RAW any day.

"The 5D III is the image quality king"..... If your happy shooting RAW, if not, it still leaves a lot to be desired. That doesn't make the 70D's image improvements any less worthwhile.

I hope Canon really have improved the video image quality greatly over the 7D and 5D's. it's about time they have us 1080p50 too.

 

You will have 1080p50 when canon puts there Digi6 processor on their EOS body. util then do not expect any camera to have 60/50fps.
i´m betting that the 7Dmark2 will have that digi6 processor instead of dual digi5+. 
 



#11 BillowingWind

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

"If usable AF in video mode and the need for an APS-C sized sensor to suit your extensive EFS lens collection"... and want the ability to use most any other brand of lens with simple, affordable adaptors. AND maintain the highest APS-C image quality, then GET THE SONY NEX 6...

1) Equivalently-fast Auto Focus
2) FOCUS PEAKING on LCD & EVF

3) WiFi plus DOWNLOADABLE APPS

 

SOLD!
(on a SONY NEX 6)


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#12 MattH

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

Lenses NOT fully compatible with the new AF system

  • EF14mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF24mm f/1.4L USM
  • EF100mm f/2.8 Macro
  • EF400mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF500mm f/4.5L USM
  • EF600mm f/4L USM
  • EF1200mm f/5.6L USM
  • EF16-35mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF17-35mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF20-35mm f/2.8L
  • EF24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF28-70mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF28-70mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 II
  • EF28-80mm f/2.8-4L USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 III USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 IV USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 V USM
  • EF28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM
  • EF28-105mm f/4-5.6
  • EF28-105mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF35-70mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-70mm f/3.5-4.5A
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 PZ
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 II
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 III
  • EF35-105mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-105mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF35-105mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF35-135mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-135mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF70-210mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF70-210mm f/4
  • EF75-300mm f/4-5.6
  • EF80-200mm f/2.8L
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II
  • EF90-300mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF90-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF100-200mm f/4.5A
  • EF100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF100-300mm f/5.6
  • EF100-300mm f/5.6L

That's a lot of lenses that don't work.  I wonder why they don't.  And what about third party lenses.  I guess it will be a case of trial and error.



#13 JR Lipartito

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:14 PM

Lenses NOT fully compatible with the new AF system

  • EF14mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF24mm f/1.4L USM
  • EF100mm f/2.8 Macro
  • EF400mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF500mm f/4.5L USM
  • EF600mm f/4L USM
  • EF1200mm f/5.6L USM
  • EF16-35mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF17-35mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF20-35mm f/2.8L
  • EF24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF28-70mm f/2.8L USM
  • EF28-70mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 II
  • EF28-80mm f/2.8-4L USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 III USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 IV USM
  • EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 V USM
  • EF28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM
  • EF28-105mm f/4-5.6
  • EF28-105mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF35-70mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-70mm f/3.5-4.5A
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 PZ
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 II
  • EF35-80mm f/4-5.6 III
  • EF35-105mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-105mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF35-105mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF35-135mm f/3.5-4.5
  • EF35-135mm f/4-5.6 USM
  • EF70-210mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
  • EF70-210mm f/4
  • EF75-300mm f/4-5.6
  • EF80-200mm f/2.8L
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II
  • EF90-300mm f/4.5-5.6
  • EF90-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF100-200mm f/4.5A
  • EF100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
  • EF100-300mm f/5.6
  • EF100-300mm f/5.6L

That's a lot of lenses that don't work.  I wonder why they don't.  And what about third party lenses.  I guess it will be a case of trial and error.

 

A lot of those lenses are out of production and/or have been replaced already. Third party lenses though, That's a good question. I'd love to find out whether or not my Sigma 30&50mm f1.4 lenses will work.



#14 cthornhill

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:37 PM

Just a picky note on an error/typo in the copy - in the article's fourth paragraph you say:

"...inherits the 5D Mark III’s video mode with 90MB/s ALL-I codec.."

 

Canon specifies that the 70D produces full 1920 x 1080 16:9 HD at 24fps  All-I H264 video at a rate of 685 MB per min. This is about 1.42 MBs (rounded). The 5D3 is also specified by Canon to produce the same H264 spec video at the same number of MB per min. and hence the same rate of about 1.42 MBs.

 

So yes, both the 5D3 and the 70D have an HD All-I H264 video mode, and provide the same data rate in that mode, but it is not the same as the 90MBs Magic Lantern Canon 5D3 raw data rate.

 

Like I said, clearly just a mistake in the copy, as you literally 'wrote the book' on Magic Lantern 5D3 raw video...:-)!

 

I just think it may be worth correcting as I don't expect (but can't say without testing) that the 70D will provide a data rate to SD that is as high as 90MBs in any mode, though I am expecting it will be faster than older SD card cameras.

 

 

 



#15 EOSHD

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:02 AM

SORRY meant 90Mb/s (bits not bytes).



#16 fluxo

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:58 AM

SORRY meant 90Mb/s (bits not bytes).

Hy there,

 

if its 90Mb/s then we can have 1080p RAW video on the 70D or not?



#17 cthornhill

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:14 AM

No worries! I just realized I screwed up and said 1.42MBs when of course it is 11.42MBs....somehow I dropped the leading digit when posting! My bad...:-)

So yeah, about 90Mbs! It is so darn easy to get the bits and bytes swapped in typing.

#18 EOSHD

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:07 PM

Hy there,

 

if its 90Mb/s then we can have 1080p RAW video on the 70D or not?

 

90Mbits/s = 11.25MB/s. Max on the 6D's card slot was 40MB/s for raw video. 1080p raw requires 80MB/s. That is 640Mbits per second. To avoid confusion I usually write Mbits rather than Mb/s.



#19 peederj

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

Note that the 70D handles 7fps 20.2MP stills while the 6D handles 4.5fps 20.2MP stills. This makes it quite possible the SD slot on the 70D is upgraded to greater bandwidth.

 

Also, in the lens list above, note the absence of "II" on a lot of those models...those are the old ones. Canon has upgraded its AF accuracy within the lens motors considerably since around the time of the 70-200/2.8 II as documented by Roger Cicala. It's nice continuous AF isn't limited to the new STM lenses at least, though it may work best on those.



#20 EOSHD

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:24 AM

peederj, on 04 Jul 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

Note that the 70D handles 7fps 20.2MP stills while the 6D handles 4.5fps 20.2MP stills. This makes it quite possible the SD slot on the 70D is upgraded to greater bandwidth.

No continuous shooting rate has absolutely nothing to do with card slot write speed.

What you fail to mention is the 70D doesn't do 7fps raw stills continuously.

In reality, they do a burst of raw stills (approx. 30MB each) to the internal buffer memory (usually around 512MB) and when it fills up you get a true reflection of the card write speeds, since it is now emptying the buffer to the card whilst making space in the buffer for more photos. So the photos can only then be written to the buffer at the rate it is emptied to the card.

You will get about 17 raw frames at the full 7fps until the buffer fills and the card becomes the bottleneck, then it will be approx 1.5fps to the card (30MB per frame with a maximum SD card slot speed of 40MB/s).

5D Mark III is now writing 103MB/s continuously to the card, even with all the overheads on the CPU. If you need raw video, there's only one candidate leading the pack.

50D however - now that's a bargain.




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