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Is this the Blackmagic 4K sensor? Same supplier as Leica M CMOS

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:29 PM

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blackmagic-cmosis-CMV-12000.jpg

Last year I found a sensor which seemed a perfect match for future 4K Blackmagic Cinema Cameras. I contacted the supplier CMOSIS who quoted me a rough price point which made 4K for $4K within reach. CMOSIS are a European company who are mass producing the full frame CMOS sensor in the new Leica M so they are an extremely reliable and high regarded supplier with experience of mass production for the photographic market.

Read the full article here

#2
Chrad

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

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Looks like it. Good find (last year).

If this is the supplier and sensor, I'm very confident they'll ship in July. It may seem hard to believe, but before the BMC launch, BMD had a reputation for always shipping their products on time. Without issues with the sensor supplier, they shouldn't have any difficulty manufacturing BMPCC's in large quantities.



#3
nathanleebush

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

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So is the Leica sensor just substantially different? What explains for the utter lack of video quality from the new M if the same manufacturer created them both?



#4
Tzedekh

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:52 PM

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I agree that it looks like the CMV12000, particularly when you consider BMD's specs for the 4K camera's sensor -- unless a heretofore unknown sensor is being used, only the CMV fits the specs. With its pixel pitch of 5.5 μm, a window of 3,840 x 2,160 pixels (the BMPC sensor's active area) would measure 21.12 x 11.88 mm, the same as the BMPC sensor's. Unfortunately, unless BMD has implemented at least one of the CMV's three HDR modes, it would seem that a 12-stop dynamic range would be impossible. The CMV's 60-dB DR figure translates to 10 stops, and that would be the theoretical maximum.



#5
TC

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:03 PM

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Blackmagic are claiming 12 stops.  I expect CMOSIS have been working Blackmagic to optimise the sensor to Blackmagic's requirements and have managed to squeeze an extra stop out of it.  12 stops is still as much as any Canon camera ever released.  



#6
Chrad

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

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So is the Leica sensor just substantially different? What explains for the utter lack of video quality from the new M if the same manufacturer created them both?

The Leica sensor is optimised for superb still quality and the (possible) Blackmagic sensor is optimised for superb video quality.

Trying to create a jack of all trades sensor in this price range results in compromises one way or the other.



#7
NikolaOvcharski

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

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Do we know the dynamic range of Canon EOS-1D C and Sony FS700 for example? Is is above 11?



#8
theSUBVERSIVE

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

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I wonder if in the future BlackMagic would go for the full specs of this sensor, 15-stops and 4K@150fps - even though I hink that 120fps would be plenty. That would make the big boys make a run for their money. The F55 has 14-stops and 4K@60fps and it's about $30K. Could BMD make that camera for less than $10K maybe?


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#9
Omega Broadcast

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

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Great job of connecting the dots here. Anyone read THE SILICON EYE? 

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0393328414


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#10
theSUBVERSIVE

Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

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So is the Leica sensor just substantially different? What explains for the utter lack of video quality from the new M if the same manufacturer created them both?

 

This is a 4K sensor, which is a 8MP - full 12MP if it's really the CMOSIS in it's 4:3 - and the Leica M is a 24MP FF, they have different sizes, different resolutions and the 4K sensor has global shutter instead of the rolling shutter, they are indeed very different and I don't think they ever thought about them being similar in any way.

 

The Leica M sensor was probably developed together within Leica's specs need. The fact that the video of the Leica M is not good, isn't probably the sensor's fault by its own, but most likely also because Leica doesn't have the expertise in video area, be it for the codec or for optimizing the video for moiré and rolling shutter.

 

Many thought that being Leica, maybe they would ask someone to do it for them, create one of the best video for their camera and keep their overall quality standard, but it's not the case and it's clearly not their focus. They just tried to provide a video in case the photographer needs somehow, but knowing that a Leica photographer wouldn't care so much about video, at least not to the point the investment would compensate, they didn't.

 

But it you think about that, they did what they had to do, because if they managed to supply a superb video, they would attract a different kind of customer, which would also demand a different kind of attention and time. In the end, if they wanted to keep those, they would have to invest even more in video and in an area that they would not be confortable with so the video is just to have in case you really want and that's it.


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#11
Andrew Reid

Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

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There's a big difference between a photographic sensor and video sensor. You can just about hack video off the former, whilst the latter is designed for the purpose and usually has a lower native resolution to suit 2K or 4K video.

 

When you have a 18 or 24MP chip you have to downsample to 1080p on a DSLR and that along with heavy compression creates less resolution (naturally), less dynamic range and other artefacts like banding and moire.



#12
Dim

Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

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Well. We can see first footage from BMCC 4K on July, right? 



#13
mtheory

Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:01 AM

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Yes. Get ready for 4K cats in shallow DOF.

 

4.gif


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#14
tttulio

Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

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Im curious as to what sensor the Pocket Cam uses.



#15
jgharding

Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:15 AM

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Yes. Get ready for 4K cats in shallow DOF.

 

4.gif

 

HAHAHA!  :lol:

 

And then the sequels:

 

Kitchen Table Focus Pull 4K

 

and

 

Unimpressed Girlfriend Posing When All She Wanted To Do Was Have A Nice Time Together And Instead You Play With Your Cameras 4K


HampB-LOGO-and-SIGNATURE-WEBGIF--SMALLER





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