New cinema camera...?

[Emanuel]

One of our favourites ones among us over here... LOL oh boy : D

...has just spoken:

 

[kye]

OK, now I get it.  There's this one, the PRO, and then the ILS which has interchangeable lenses.

I'm waiting to see what that one is like.  I love me some lenses!

[maxJ4380]

yer me too, also still wondering about the pricing here in aus 

[kye]

2 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

yer me too, also still wondering about the pricing here in aus 

I'd imagine it'll be somewhere between exorbitant, ridiculous, and "this is just an action camera - WTF".

[eatstoomuchjam]

The $700 price tag in the US is already there!

[maxJ4380]

15 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The $700 price tag in the US is already there!

yer where you are... 

by the time it gets to here and converted to aussie $ then  add a gst on top and whatever other hidden taxes there are and its not going to be $700 

supposably there's a free trade agreement between you people and us... the reality is i suspect theres nothing free about trade.

[kye]

The "Australia Tax" is definitely real.

It's getting less now thanks to how easy it is to buy direct online from overseas, but if you buy locally you pay a significant premium to the local importer who has exclusive rights to set pricing and sell those goods.  I've known people who needed to buy something significant for their work, so rather than buying it locally, they took the family on a weeks holiday to Singapore (or the US) and bought the thing there and brought it back in their luggage...  and even including all the costs of the family holiday etc it was still cheaper!

I also remember someone from tech company needing to download a huge database from overseas and with internet speeds at the time they ended up flying there, burning it to a bunch of discs, then flying home again, and if you divided the total amount of data over the entire duration of the trip it was still dozens of times faster, and might even have been cost competitive on the data rates too.

[eatstoomuchjam]

6 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

yer where you are... 

by the time it gets to here and converted to aussie $ then  add a gst on top and whatever other hidden taxes there are and its not going to be $700 

supposably there's a free trade agreement between you people and us... the reality is i suspect theres nothing free about trade.

I worded my response badly!

I meant that the $700 US price tag was "already there" in terms of 'exorbitant, ridiculous, and "this is just an action camera - WTF"' which Kye had just said in anticipation of the AU pricing.

I should have chosen phrasing that made it more clear that I wasn't simply repeating US pricing that is already known.  😅

[maxJ4380]

On 5/30/2026 at 5:54 PM, kye said:

The "Australia Tax" is definitely real.

It's getting less now thanks to how easy it is to buy direct online from overseas, but if you buy locally you pay a significant premium to the local importer who has exclusive rights to set pricing and sell those goods.  I've known people who needed to buy something significant for their work, so rather than buying it locally, they took the family on a weeks holiday to Singapore (or the US) and bought the thing there and brought it back in their luggage...  and even including all the costs of the family holiday etc it was still cheaper!

 

It was better when you could buy stuff under $1000 and pay not additional taxes. Gerry Harvey complained to the government he was losing too many sales. Thats when the ten % gst got applied to everything and the government had a win and Gerry Harvey could suddenly afford a few more race horses as well.

For awhile those overseas ebay buys were a bargain as the middleman got cut out out the deal. However i suspect the manufacturers or sellers have upped the base price regardless of middlemen or not and the savings aren't as spectacular as they once were.

On 5/30/2026 at 11:02 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

I worded my response badly!

I meant that the $700 US price tag was "already there" in terms of 'exorbitant, ridiculous, and "this is just an action camera - WTF"' which Kye had just said in anticipation of the AU pricing.

I should have chosen phrasing that made it more clear that I wasn't simply repeating US pricing that is already known.  😅

Ah ok, i read that as a reasonable (price) opposite of what you meant lol, although not sure what gopros have normally sold for over there. I think i paid $500-600 for the 9 when it came out. Confident i looked around for the best "local" deal. 

Playing devils advocate momentarily and to be honest i have no interest in the other models, a new chip, decent capacity battery it seems, and ability to mount mft lenses and that 1080 at 960fps even at 10 seconds is impressive, i think i would be happy to pay $700 even through its a jump over earlier gopros but it wont be $700 here, I'm expecting $1000-$1300 

er i just googled mission 1 in aus. Seems like there here, except the ils gopro and its $1100  which might come as a bit of a shock to some of you  🙂

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

2 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

Playing devils advocate momentarily and to be honest i have no interest in the other models, a new chip, decent capacity battery it seems, and ability to mount mft lenses and that 1080 at 960fps even at 10 seconds is impressive, i think i would be happy to pay $700 even through its a jump over earlier gopros but it wont be $700 here, I'm expecting $1000-$1300 

It's not just the ILS model that is $700 - it's the Mission 1 Pro as well.  Currently the Hero 13 normally sells for about $430 and they are often on sale for $350.  The Insta360 Ace 2 and DJI Osmo Action 5 are in generally the same price range.  At least for traditional action camera use cases, it's a relatively hard sell to say that Mission 1 Pro is worth almost twice the price.

For the ILS, Back-Bone haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire with sales.  I think that there will be a first wave of adopters who quickly dislike the limitations of a 1" sensor with a passive MFT mount.  I'm excited for it, but not at $700.  Maybe a year or so after it's released, the price will drop.  It's a lot more interesting at the price of the current Hero 13.

[maxJ4380]

 

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

It's not just the ILS model that is $700 - it's the Mission 1 Pro as well.  Currently the Hero 13 normally sells for about $430 and they are often on sale for $350.  The Insta360 Ace 2 and DJI Osmo Action 5 are in generally the same price range.  At least for traditional action camera use cases, it's a relatively hard sell to say that Mission 1 Pro is worth almost twice the price.

For the ILS, Back-Bone haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire with sales.  I think that there will be a first wave of adopters who quickly dislike the limitations of a 1" sensor with a passive MFT mount.  I'm excited for it, but not at $700.  Maybe a year or so after it's released, the price will drop.  It's a lot more interesting at the price of the current Hero 13.

Thats probably good thinking 🙂 

when i did a quick google check on the mission 1 and variants the older model from the major store outlets are selling for less than $500 trying to clear old stock no doubt. Which makes me think what price could they actually sell a camera for ?

I did look into the backbone at the time, however the crop put me off as i remember it being like a 5 times crop ( i could be wrong about that) rather than the  2.7 crop from the mission1 compared to a crop of 2x from a normal mft mount. My oly 12mm would become like 32mm, my 24mm sirui would become almost 65mm which is certainly something to think about. The 17mm takumar i play with a bit would become 50mm. Not sure how to get a wide angle look on a mission 1 and a mft mount ? So far i think i have to find a lens around 6mm - not more than 9mm.  

Haven't seen any footage yet, but i suspect a speed booster should work either 0.64 or 0.70 to get you back close to a 2x crop or is my thinking flawed as i'm curious about that ? Of course this is all still theoretical as the mission1 ils is not yet available. 

What limitations are you expecting with a 1 inch sensor and passive mount, the lack of auto focus ?

 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

I did look into the backbone at the time, however the crop put me off as i remember it being like a 5 times crop ( i could be wrong about that) rather than the  2.7 crop from the mission1 compared to a crop of 2x from a normal mft mount.

That depends on which back-bone modded camera you get.  Their modded Sony RX0 has a 1" sensor, passive MFT mount, and the exact same crop factor as the Mission 1 (if I remember right).   My modded Insta360 One RS also has a 1" sensor and a passive MFT mount.  It suffers from lack of any option for wired monitoring - so one either needs to focus on the tiny action camera screen or over wireless which can get laggy at the most inconvenient times.  It's pretty great, though, for setting up to record with fixed focus (I shot the eclipse with it, for example).  The GoPro has at least some option for wired monitoring so that'll be nice.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

Haven't seen any footage yet, but i suspect a speed booster should work either 0.64 or 0.70 to get you back close to a 2x crop or is my thinking flawed as i'm curious about that ? Of course this is all still theoretical as the mission1 ils is not yet available. 

It's possible, even, that one of the older 0.58x boosters made for the OG BMPCC would work (if you could find one).  My Metabones 0.64x and 0.71x boosters work fine with the Insta360.  Though it's sometimes more fun to use it with a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter.  With a 1.4x, the Canon 100-400 becomes a 140-560 with an equivalent view of about 380-1500mm.  That can be pretty fun in nature.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

What limitations are you expecting with a 1 inch sensor and passive mount, the lack of auto focus ?

I don't need to anticipate it.  I've lived it and I know the limitations don't bother me too much.

But mainly, the ergonomics of an action camera are poorly-suited to trying to hold the camera and manually focus.  Mission 1 seems to be a little bigger than some others and it has a small protruded grip on the right side which could help a bit.  But otherwise, one ends up with the right hand curved into a weird claw, trying to hold the camera steady while the left hand turns the focus ring.  If the focus ring is stiff, it can look pretty funny.  Mounting a handle to the camera can help and it feels a little more like carrying around an 8mm or 16mm film camera.

Passive MFT mount means that indeed, autofocus won't work.  It also means that aperture won't work on a majority of Panasonic/Olympus lenses - and in some cases, manual focus won't work on them since they're focus-by-wire.  Removing Pany/Oly doesn't leave a ton of lenses that are optimized for M43.  Veydra mini-primes were nice (and still are, can't remember who bought the Veydra brand)...  There are some nice Voigtlanders that are MIcro 4/3 designs.  But a lot of the other third-party makers just take their S35 or FF lenses, jam on a M43 mount, and call it good.

For me, I'm much more interested in it as a platform to mount my C-mount and some D-mount lenses.  Like I have a 13mm f/1.9 Yvar which could be fun - or a positively tiny 15mm f/2.8 Yvar.

But like I said, I think a lot of people are going to find that a 1" sensor with a passive MFT mount sounds like fun, but will balk once they start using it and realizing, for example, that they actually need a monitor to effectively focus it.

[kye]

16 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

 

Interesting that the Pro and ILS versions are the same price - that's not something I would have anticipated.

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm excited for it, but not at $700.

Seems to me it's a pretty niche product.  To justify it you'd have to really value something that it can do that other cameras can't (like shooting action stuff!), or you'd have to be looking at it as an all-rounder / your only camera and therefore not really want the things it can't do.  

I'm guessing that will be the case for enough people that the GoPro leadership and management bros will be able to look out at the world and see enough zealots who think it's totally rad dude and get the impression that they're doing the world a favour by just existing.

12 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

Not sure how to get a wide angle look on a mission 1 and a mft mount ? So far i think i have to find a lens around 6mm - not more than 9mm.  

There are a ton of options actually.  The classic recommendation is the Laowa 7.5mm F2, which is rectilinear (not fisheye) and small/light and nice to use etc.

It seems like you're not really that up with what is available for the MFT ecosystem - there's new lenses being released all the time.  I recommend searching B&H, in the mirrorless catalog, and just select MFT as the mount and then explore what's there.  B&H have 29 entries for prime MFT lenses under 9mm, including options at 3.5mm, 4mm, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7.5mm and 8mm.  Some of these will be duplicates, but there's still a lot of options there.
There's even a 4.5-10mm F2.8 zoom from Laowa in there, which appears to be a new product coming soon.

B&H is the best option for new/current lenses:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912?filters=fct_lens-mount_3442%3Amicro-four-thirds

Then there's this page from Alik Griffin which is awesome and lists all MFT lenses ever made:
https://alikgriffin.com/micro-43-lens-buying-guide/
No idea how many lenses are on that list, but it's about 35 pages long, so quite a few.

Everyone who went FF think that MFT stopped suddenly in their absence! 

9 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Removing Pany/Oly doesn't leave a ton of lenses that are optimized for M43.  Veydra mini-primes were nice (and still are, can't remember who bought the Veydra brand)...  There are some nice Voigtlanders that are MIcro 4/3 designs.  But a lot of the other third-party makers just take their S35 or FF lenses, jam on a M43 mount, and call it good.

What would you define as "optimised for MFT"?

Is it sharpness? or something else?  Are there specific criteria that MFT has that differs from APSC sensors perhaps?  If so, does it also differ between bodies or manufacturers?  Like, I'm sure the sensor stack on an Olympus camera is different to the Panny ones?

Genuinely curious, as loads of lenses are made for the new FF mirrorless mounts and seem to cover every one of them (E/Z/L/RF/M) but people don't seem to be talking about them not being "optimised for <insert mirrorless mount here>".

[maxJ4380]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Interesting that the Pro and ILS versions are the same price - that's not something I would have anticipated.

Seems to me it's a pretty niche product.  To justify it you'd have to really value something that it can do that other cameras can't (like shooting action stuff!), or you'd have to be looking at it as an all-rounder / your only camera and therefore not really want the things it can't do.  

I'm guessing that will be the case for enough people that the GoPro leadership and management bros will be able to look out at the world and see enough zealots who think it's totally rad dude and get the impression that they're doing the world a favour by just existing.

There are a ton of options actually.  The classic recommendation is the Laowa 7.5mm F2, which is rectilinear (not fisheye) and small/light and nice to use etc.

It seems like you're not really that up with what is available for the MFT ecosystem - there's new lenses being released all the time.  I recommend searching B&H, in the mirrorless catalog, and just select MFT as the mount and then explore what's there.  B&H have 29 entries for prime MFT lenses under 9mm, including options at 3.5mm, 4mm, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7.5mm and 8mm.  Some of these will be duplicates, but there's still a lot of options there.
There's even a 4.5-10mm F2.8 zoom from Laowa in there, which appears to be a new product coming soon.

B&H is the best option for new/current lenses:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912?filters=fct_lens-mount_3442%3Amicro-four-thirds

Then there's this page from Alik Griffin which is awesome and lists all MFT lenses ever made:
https://alikgriffin.com/micro-43-lens-buying-guide/
No idea how many lenses are on that list, but it's about 35 pages long, so quite a few.

Everyone who went FF think that MFT stopped suddenly in their absence! 

What would you define as "optimised for MFT"?

Is it sharpness? or something else?  Are there specific criteria that MFT has that differs from APSC sensors perhaps?  If so, does it also differ between bodies or manufacturers?  Like, I'm sure the sensor stack on an Olympus camera is different to the Panny ones?

Genuinely curious, as loads of lenses are made for the new FF mirrorless mounts and seem to cover every one of them (E/Z/L/RF/M) but people don't seem to be talking about them not being "optimised for <insert mirrorless mount here>".

I am sure i have read / heard the internals are the same, so i presume its just different housings. Considering the pricing i guess which ever is dearer to make, takes a small hit on the profit margins. which is probably the mission1 ils, but then its probably going to sell less, so they can probably live with that.

It is a niche product i think as well. I see the mission 1ils  as a stepping stone. Once you have had a gopro or other action camera and done different things with it or if you have some kind of cinema expectations, you can become aware of some its limitations. I think the ils will help with bridging that gap perhaps even dragging things up a level. I suspect that you might even need two gropros the mission one for traditional gopro look and the mission 1 ils for the stuff the mission 1 cant do. Be interesting to see how things pan out. 

We have all seen some amazing stuff done with gopros however that all comes from a core group of people with a gopro , maybe 10% perhaps alot less then 10% i'm not sure. I was inspired by chris benchetler  chasing el nino  a series on snow skiing enough to buy a gopro 9.  I realize he had a whole  crew and helicopters to help however the gopros used for the pov was amazing.  The only issue not a lot of snow around here... 

I'll have to continue with my thoughts later, got to go to town otherwise people are going to starve...🙄 

 

[BTM_Pix]

Well it looks like they really need these new models to be a hit.

Full story here…

https://www.redsharknews.com/gopro-8k-going-concern-warning

[Andrew - EOSHD]

Does that mean we may stop hearing about action cams on the EOSHD Forum?

[eatstoomuchjam]

10 hours ago, kye said:

What would you define as "optimised for MFT"?

Oh, I wasn't getting as fancy as anybody's sensor stack or anything like that.  I just meant smaller lenses which didn't need to decide to have an image circle that covers S35 or any other larger sensors.  The Laowa 7.5mm that you mentioned is a fantastic example of a lens designed for Micro 4/3 and I'd be shocked if its image circle would cover S35.

I'd contrast that with something like a Rokinon Xeen.  You can go buy one with an MFT mount, but it'll be the same design/glass that you'd find on the same model of Xeen for FF.  It'll work fine, of course - but the lens is bigger and heavier than it needs to be.  In that case, of course, there's an EF mount version which would make more sense on a focal reducer.

[maxJ4380]

On 6/2/2026 at 11:53 AM, kye said:

 

I'm guessing that will be the case for enough people that the GoPro leadership and management bros will be able to look out at the world and see enough zealots who think it's totally rad dude and get the impression that they're doing the world a favour by just existing.

How is that any different to any other camera manufacturer ?  Canon gave us the cripple hammer and cameras that overheated because of a timer. If you have a list of 7 attributes for your forever camera, no camera manufacturer will give you all 7, perhaps 4 at best...

On 6/2/2026 at 11:53 AM, kye said:

There are a ton of options actually.  The classic recommendation is the Laowa 7.5mm F2, which is rectilinear (not fisheye) and small/light and nice to use etc.

It seems like you're not really that up with what is available for the MFT ecosystem - there's new lenses being released all the time.  I recommend searching B&H, in the mirrorless catalog, and just select MFT as the mount and then explore what's there.  B&H have 29 entries for prime MFT lenses under 9mm, including options at 3.5mm, 4mm, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7.5mm and 8mm.  Some of these will be duplicates, but there's still a lot of options there.
There's even a 4.5-10mm F2.8 zoom from Laowa in there, which appears to be a new product coming soon.

 

Your correct, its because i tend to stick my head in the sand.  It's a basic defense mechanism designed to help avoid additional financial trauma to my wallet..  That new laowa zoom seems interesting, i'll have to keep an eye out for that.   

I hope gopro don't go broke before they release the ils, as i would still buy it counting on the fact that my gopro 9 still works after i don't know how many years of ownership.

I did rewatch the potato jet vid and i thought that the warping was better controlled / less obvious then previous models, anyone else notice that ?

My oly 12mm probably wont work with mission1 ils but every other vintage lens i own should, whether they actually resolve to 4k or higher might be an issue. I'm trying not to over think it considering that with a 2.7 crop there's a chunk gone off the top, bottom and sides leaving the center portion which is usually the best bit, i'm prepared to call it character and live with it  unless its a really obnoxious look. 

From what i have seen with those that have a ils to play with, it seems like they all had phones or monitors hooked up. So my first though was that it would have to be rigged to be useful. Which is about a 180 degree turnaround to how a normal gopro is used. That seems  obvious to me and doesn't strike me as an impediment at all.  I mean look at all the smallrig accessories potato jet had at his disposal.  

[kye]

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

How is that any different to any other camera manufacturer ?  Canon gave us the cripple hammer and cameras that overheated because of a timer. If you have a list of 7 attributes for your forever camera, no camera manufacturer will give you all 7, perhaps 4 at best...

There's some truth to that, but I think GoPro are a different breed.  Still, it's not a popularity contest.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

Your correct, its because i tend to stick my head in the sand.  It's a basic defense mechanism designed to help avoid additional financial trauma to my wallet..  That new laowa zoom seems interesting, i'll have to keep an eye out for that.   

Seems sensible!

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

I hope gopro don't go broke before they release the ils, as i would still buy it counting on the fact that my gopro 9 still works after i don't know how many years of ownership.

I did rewatch the potato jet vid and i thought that the warping was better controlled / less obvious then previous models, anyone else notice that ?

My oly 12mm probably wont work with mission1 ils but every other vintage lens i own should, whether they actually resolve to 4k or higher might be an issue. I'm trying not to over think it considering that with a 2.7 crop there's a chunk gone off the top, bottom and sides leaving the center portion which is usually the best bit, i'm prepared to call it character and live with it  unless its a really obnoxious look. 

From what i have seen with those that have a ils to play with, it seems like they all had phones or monitors hooked up. So my first though was that it would have to be rigged to be useful. Which is about a 180 degree turnaround to how a normal gopro is used. That seems  obvious to me and doesn't strike me as an impediment at all.  I mean look at all the smallrig accessories potato jet had at his disposal.  

What sort of shooting would you do with it?

My impression is that something like this is best placed to do things that larger cameras can't do, otherwise it'd be better to use those as they'll have nicer DR, codecs, etc etc.  
It seems like the advantages this might have would be the size, the crop factor (if that's what you're going for), and maybe the slow-motion which some people have said isn't really available elsewhere.

I have shot a lot on small cameras and enjoyed trying to push things to their limits, including shooting stills on my GoPro 3, which despite not even having a screen still worked really well for street photography (the secret was burst mode).

When you see the camera YouTubers they all have a similar mindset that comes from constantly standing around in public talking to large cameras on tripods (or being filmed by someone else) so size doesn't really matter in that sense and they'll just rig everything up.  
If, on the other hand, you're going out with a camera for more than a week or two before the NDA lifts, you've got time to learn it and learn how to use it and how it influences you to shoot etc, so you can rig it (or not) in the best way possible for its logical use.