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Download raw footage from the KineRAW S35

Andrew Reid

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KineRAW tester [url="http://www.eoshd.com/comments/index.php/topic,606.0.html"]Dan Hudgins has kindly updated us[/url] with new photos of the KineRAW S35 and downloadable raw CineForm clips on the EOSHD forum.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/?p=8358/"]Read full article[/url]

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Andrew, good article. 

If Kineraw beats BM out of the gate, then things will be very interesting.  There has been talk of BM orders taking till October with first shipments supposedly end of this month?  The BM looks to be an amazing camera.  However, the Kineraw is shaping up to be  an amazing camera too.  The Chinese are clever.  What if the final Kineraw image turns out to be extremely close to an Alexa's image?  Pricing of the Kineraw will be very important (due to Kineraw being a new company, trying to gain market penetration and competition such as BM).  Kineraw S35 "crop" is attractive.
If Kineraw attains the "Alexa" quality, then people will recongnize this quickly as news travels very fast via the internet.  We live in different times.  I like the competition.  I wonder if Canon is realizing what is creeping up quickly. 
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Image seems really good! the last picture, the old man, well if this is a sreen grab from the camera... wow!

But I'm taking this all with a bit of grain of salt. This is a camera from China and will take time to have retailers in USA and Europe. Also this will have to prove to be reliable in a number of situations.

Well, I hope they succeed with the Kineraw. Perhaps in 2013 we will see this camera in the world market... Let's see...
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This is big.  ;D

About a year ago Dan told me to email these guys and tell them what i wanted in a cinema camera..  (not that my opinion was special, just r&d..) - i got an email back that ended with a number around $8000 for the 35mm..  This thing looks awesome.. I remember thinking when i saw the original concept camera, "i wouldn't buy that.  It's ugly as hell.  I'm all for cutting corners for other things, but i would've taken a Dynamic Range hit for some sex appeal.". 

Now hopefully, it doesn't wind up around $10,000...  That's only 2 grand more, but for some reason, anything under 10,000$ has a nice ring to it.  Add a 5th digit and consumers get depressed.
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They were intitially hoping for May 2012 for release in China. 2nd half of 2012 for rest of the world.  Obviously still tweaking.  Could be anytime now...The sooner they get it out(without glitches) then the better.  S35 model. 

I heard pricing in the $7000 to $8000 range.  I would like to see a price of $5000, if it would be possible, but highly doubt.  Maybe $7500....The lower the price Kineraw can offer, the more enticing.  Of course the quality needs to be there.  Cheers.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Quote:[ Here are more Cineform RAW clips shot on KineRAW-S35; we would like to
share with you.


When downloading the files, Attention that the server has limited
connections, so please download one file at one time.

Cineform Firstlight/Davinci Resolve/Speedgrade/Scratch could be used
for grading/rendering. May use the Cineform decoder
settings-->Demosaic Type-->advanced details to make image look

Need to install Cineform decoder on your PC or MAC to playback,
Cineform Decoder download link:


You will also need to drag and drop the 3D-LUTs onto the Cineform (tm) LUT tool in the Cineform (tm) program folder,


The 3D-LUT are mated to the ISO and K value used when shooting so need to be installed for the clips above to play with the right "one light" color correction, the look group used is intended for having the shots graded, so graded results would look better. Various monitoring LUT can be loaded into the camera and selected with the encoder knob from a quick button menu labeled "look", and depending on which "look" is selected the camera makes a corresponding 3D-LUT in each shot folder, in this case the same "look" was used for all my test shots so far, that are linked to above for those MOV files.
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The KineRAW-S35 (tm) currently shoots:

2048x1080 for DCP crop to 2048x858 (2.39:1) and 1998x1080 (1.85:1) as well as crop to 1920x1080 (16:9 HD).

It can also shoot 1920x1080 and 1280x720.

In 1280x720 it can shoot 50fps and 59.94fps.

Shutter angles from 0.7 to 358 degrees are supported, with presets for 144, 288, 172.8 etc. to reduce flicker under 50/60Hz lighting. At 24.000 fps the 144 and 288 are very stable and I don't see any flicker under florescent 60Hz lighting.
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The KineRAW-S8p (tm) can shoot from 1fps to 220fps at various resolutions. 2592x1104 and 1920x1440 over-sample work well at 24.000fps. You can see some compressed examples on my Vimeo page, I also have a grading test of the 2048x1080 letter boxed from KineRAW-S35 (tm) there into 1920x1080 (video G1).


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With regard to the pricing, the projected price for the production KineRAW-S8 (tm) is about $1000 to $2000 and the KineRAW-S35 (tm) about $6000 to $8000 depending on what is included, there may be a package offer that includes a body, one "KineMAG" (tm) SSD (high sustained recording rate for the high bandwidth CinemaDNG recording) and a lens mount of the buyer's choice. You can email Kinefinity.com (tm) and ask them about the early adopter package and when you might be able to get one, field testing is going on now.

Air mail shipping from China is part of the price range, and takes about maybe 10 days or so.

The EI ISO range for the KineRAW-S35 (tm) is currently EI ISO 80 to 81920 although for normal use 5120 may be closer to the top end, it depends on what the end use is and if you apply temporal noise reduction, or are shooting Cineform (tm) or CinemaDNG (tm).

The KineRAW-S35 (tm) can record both wavelet Cineform (tm) compression (no blocky artifacts like H.264 HDSLR) and or CinemaDNG (tm) 100% uncompressed True RAW sensor data 12bit linear recording, or both at the SAME time for using the Cineform (tm) as a quick proxy recording and the CinemaDNG (tm) for DI finish work with the highest quality wide dynamic range data to get fewest histogram gaps and smooth image tones.
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  • 3 weeks later...
[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342815418' post='14208']
Is there a chance KineRaw can get their servers sorted out for the raw material too? I've been trying to download some for a week and it is just too slow, then a time-out.

They told me they are revising their web site to have download link pages and galleries of frames and photos, so we will have to wait for the web site to be back up to see what they have posted.

I've been shooting more tests and doing some white balance calibrations for various K and light types, if you would like to see some sample 2048x1080 TIF and BMP frames and half size tests you can email me.

On the S35 tests I have been mostly using LOMO lenses, the 22mm f/2.8 (T/3.3) and 150mm f/2.8 (T/3.2) as well as the Angenieux 14.5mm f/3.5 (T/3.8).

I shot some other tests with Cooke Speed Panchro Series II 32mm f/2 etc. as well but the LOMO lenses seem a bit sharper. For the night tests I used a B&L 50mm f/1.1 (T/1.3) and Russian 28mm f/1.2 (T/1.5), and EI ISO from 320 to 5120.

If you want to know what lenses were used on my Vimeo videos it says on the head title page, most people that shoot can tell the 3.5mm Kowa from a 17mm Schneider so I did not thing sub-titles were needed on all the shots...
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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342815418' post='14208']
Is there a chance KineRaw can get their servers sorted out for the raw material too? I've been trying to download some for a week and it is just too slow, then a time-out.

They are updating their web site now, please email them and tell them about your problem downloading the Cineform (tm) clips.

I have some issues now trying to send them an edited uncompressed AVI which is about 40GB in size, the only real way of doing that is to 7-Zip it into 4GB parts and send it on DVD. If one wants quality that is like 35mm uncompressed film scans, not amateur H.264, then one needs to work out the file size issues. Cineform (tm) is a good intermediate format which is what it was developed for, to make DI without using large TB disks that did not exist when it was conceived years ago. Today its possible to work at the highest quality of uncompressed, but the internet still has a way to go for sending such files around.

You should though work out the way to get the camera original files as they are the best way to judge the cameras image quality.
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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342796398' post='14197']
That is incredibly cheap for the S8. What resolution does it do 220fps at?

The resolution varies with the fps selected, you can work out the options roughly by taking the maximum recording bandwidth in the prototype as about 110MB/s and the data being 1.5 bytes per pixel.

The production camera may have a sensor that is twice as fast and some other improvements like less or no rolling shutter option. I have been talking with them about the options they might incorporate, but its their product so what it ends up doing is not figured out yet.
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