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NX1 second thoughts, change for GH4 or A7S


Hitfabryk
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I have also been trying to see if I could reproduce the effect with my gh2, as someone on facebook said it was just optics, when light hits the sensor. I do not think thats it. 

​That kind of exposure shift has nothing to do with optics, there is something else going on and the camera is doing something it's not supposed to, maybe it's lens related, who knows but if I where you I'd send the camera back as long as you are able to.

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Yes, you are right guys, Noa and Hitfabryk. The camera goes back tomorrow. Thinking of changing to A7s. I should have gotten that one instead in the first place as I have been liking the video from it. But a part of me wanted a nice photo camera also. I guess the A7s is enough of a photo camera for me, the NX1 is bit to much of a photo camera for me, I don't need the 28mpx.

Two things i didn't like with the NX1: This exposureshift(could be fixed in the future but i'm not going to bet on that, need to work today) and the dynamic range in video does not look to be alot. I haven't done DR testing but as I said before, looks like gh2 has more dynamic range!!!! Can this be possible???

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Two things i didn't like with the NX1: This exposureshift(could be fixed in the future but i'm not going to bet on that, need to work today) and the dynamic range in video does not look to be alot. I haven't done DR testing but as I said before, looks like gh2 has more dynamic range!!!! Can this be possible???

​Those are my objections too. I am merely guestimating DR, but I've shot with a lot of cams, including GH2, and the NX1's DR doesn't seem good. Weird because NX1 still shots were tested at  14 stops and it's a big modern sensor. GH2 doesn't even have a good DR, and it seems equal to or better than NX1. I've noticed too the evf and oled don't match well and neither accurately reflects what you see once you computer plays off the card. 

I'm worried I'm outside of the return window, hope not, I can't wait and hope Samsung tries to address this. What a disappointed first firmware upgrade right? All these glaring issues and they just nibbled around the corners with the upgrade. 

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I for one will NOT be returning the NX1. I like the colors and resolution way too much. Tried an A7S as a stills hybrid and I really hate how that camera feels in the hand; it was a dealbreaker for me. In terms of dynamic range: this is not a camera to shoot flat and fiddle with. It gives you a nice film-curvy look out of the box. After you grade SLog the blacks will be crushed anyway, and the colors are probably not going to be as spot on.

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Ah, I can finally post, my first post had to be authorized first. It's there now, but probably no one has read it. :D

I'm the guy who wrote to Andrew on Vimeo about the Frame Guide thingie. Thought it could be fixed by turning it off and using center weighted metering, but of course it couldn't. Strangely enough, I think once or twice, after playing around with all the settings, switching the camera on and off, the problem was gone, but well, I don't feel like doing that every time I need a usable video. What amazes me: that hardly anyone notices it. I could be faulty units, alright, but somehow I have the feeling that it's a general issue.

For instance: the impressive footage that Andrew brought (Lisbon) is mostly tripod-still and here I think the problem doesn't occur. I tried my best to make it reproducible and found the following method: I put a dark turquois background on my PC and had enough white areas for contrast, too, and then I tilted the camera up and down towards it. At one point it starts to shift the exposure and if at that point you stop the tilting and just move the camera ever so lightly, you get the flickering. So the camera probably keeps switching madly between two exposure values. Of course, if it's perfectly still, it wouldn't do that (at least that's my thinking). My impression revolving around that: the NX1 is mainly a stills camera and no video camera. I think they mostly worked on that part (and I really do love it as a stills camera, I find the image not really inferior to my D800 and it has the tiltable screen which makes shooting that much more interesting in terms of framing IMHO). Then they thought: oh look, 4K video is the new hype, let's do it, we have the processing power. See also in terms of the not so great video features. Poor histogram, missing flat profile. So, unless we get some hackers to make a Magic Lantern for the NX1 (for which it would be absolutely marvelous due to the fast CPU), I kind of doubt they will deliver in terms of video. And personally, I'd rather not wait for that, I can always come back later, IF this happens.

Over the last few weeks, I've tested first the GH4 of which I just didn't like the picture and the tiny, plasticky lenses, then the a7s which I thought had terrible ergonomics (and I just don't like Sony as a company with all their attitude towards an exclusive network and such), but a picture you could hardly break. I'm not a great professional in terms of lighting and such, it's just too much for me and with the Sony you can really shoot in every situation and get clean footage. I mean, it IS made specifically for video which the NX1 is not IMHO. So, I will send the Samsung back and rebuy the a7s. 4K is nice and everything, but I really prefer the dynamic range of the Sony (and I really do believe that the NX1 doesn't have impressive DR like many are saying; though it might be software related or even probably is) and the larger sensor for that shallow DoF. I also think that 4K introduces a plethora of problems into the footage once things start moving and that the technology just isn't there, yet. And most cameras probably don't even have the processing power to handle it properly. Which the NX1 would have, but I doubt it will be happening. With the next model possibly, but even with that I'm not too optimistic.

Just my couple of cents.

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Ah, I can finally post, my first post had to be authorized first. It's there now, but probably no one has read it. :D

I'm the guy who wrote to Andrew on Vimeo about the Frame Guide thingie. Thought it could be fixed by turning it off and using center weighted metering, but of course it couldn't. Strangely enough, I think once or twice, after playing around with all the settings, switching the camera on and off, the problem was gone, but well, I don't feel like doing that every time I need a usable video. What amazes me: that hardly anyone notices it. I could be faulty units, alright, but somehow I have the feeling that it's a general issue.

For instance: the impressive footage that Andrew brought (Lisbon) is mostly tripod-still and here I think the problem doesn't occur. I tried my best to make it reproducible and found the following method: I put a dark turquois background on my PC and had enough white areas for contrast, too, and then I tilted the camera up and down towards it. At one point it starts to shift the exposure and if at that point you stop the tilting and just move the camera ever so lightly, you get the flickering. So the camera probably keeps switching madly between two exposure values. Of course, if it's perfectly still, it wouldn't do that (at least that's my thinking). My impression revolving around that: the NX1 is mainly a stills camera and no video camera. I think they mostly worked on that part (and I really do love it as a stills camera, I find the image not really inferior to my D800 and it has the tiltable screen which makes shooting that much more interesting in terms of framing IMHO). Then they thought: oh look, 4K video is the new hype, let's do it, we have the processing power. See also in terms of the not so great video features. Poor histogram, missing flat profile. So, unless we get some hackers to make a Magic Lantern for the NX1 (for which it would be absolutely marvelous due to the fast CPU), I kind of doubt they will deliver in terms of video. And personally, I'd rather not wait for that, I can always come back later, IF this happens.

Over the last few weeks, I've tested first the GH4 of which I just didn't like the picture and the tiny, plasticky lenses, then the a7s which I thought had terrible ergonomics (and I just don't like Sony as a company with all their attitude towards an exclusive network and such), but a picture you could hardly break. I'm not a great professional in terms of lighting and such, it's just too much for me and with the Sony you can really shoot in every situation and get clean footage. I mean, it IS made specifically for video which the NX1 is not IMHO. So, I will send the Samsung back and rebuy the a7s. 4K is nice and everything, but I really prefer the dynamic range of the Sony (and I really do believe that the NX1 doesn't have impressive DR like many are saying; though it might be software related or even probably is) and the larger sensor for that shallow DoF. I also think that 4K introduces a plethora of problems into the footage once things start moving and that the technology just isn't there, yet. And most cameras probably don't even have the processing power to handle it properly. Which the NX1 would have, but I doubt it will be happening. With the next model possibly, but even with that I'm not too optimistic.

Just my couple of cents.

​I totally agree with you. As photo camera the NX1 is excellent. I think your assessment of the NX1 is completely right. For the exact same reasons I am going for the A7s. 

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One more thing. Might be totally unrelated, but here goes:

I was just sitting on the John with my Samsung tablet and when I first got it I used to be annoyed by the strange flickering when there's a very contrasty image. So when I relog into a little game called Dungeon Keeper, there's this message that tells you to be patient with a black border and some brighter gray in the middle. The brightness flickering goes crazy during this time. Probably something like luminosity orbiting (as opposed to pixel orbiting) to protect the screen or whatever. Dunno, this might be the unique Samsung feat. :D

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Here is another video shot on an NX1 where you can see some exposure shifting or flickering of some sort beginning around the 1:50 point on.  This may be unrelated, because I'm not sure if it was shot in Manual mode or with Auto ISO on, but it just seems like the camera can't decide how to expose and makes continuous distracting exposure shifts.  The funny thing is the light does not seem to be changing much. 

 

 

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It seems I too am able, on occasion, to eliminate the exposure drift, but it's only after some random fiddling of menus and such, and then if I change more settings, the exposure drift returns. I'm not able to figure out what, if any, settings are causing this. I do think the clues are in framing mode and exposure meter settings.

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Here is a video that shows the same problem Ivar is having.  This is shot with the Rokinon 12mm.

 

 

It looks like it is locking exposure of the whole image to the center point, so when you move the center over a bright spot, the entire image brightens. Something like this: The initial center exposure has a value (x), and some other point has a value (y) (varying depending on where exactly in the frame you are). Then when you move the center of the frame to a different point (the lamp for example) the center exposure is now (x + A), so the same correction is applied to the rest of the frame, which now becomes (y + A). That would create the effect you see in that clip.

 

If some people have the problem and others not, there is probably a setting somewhere that toggles that sort of behaviour, or a combination of settings.

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Here is another video shot on an NX1 where you can see some exposure shifting or flickering of some sort beginning around the 1:50 point on.  This may be unrelated, because I'm not sure if it was shot in Manual mode or with Auto ISO on, but it just seems like the camera can't decide how to expose and makes continuous distracting exposure shifts.  The funny thing is the light does not seem to be changing much. 

 

 

​In this clip the center of the screen is roughly at the border of those black and white stripes on his jersey. He is bobbing around slightly, so the center is metering off black or white alternately, I think that is what is causing the flickering. Just need to figure out what setting is doing it.

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Here is a video that shows the same problem Ivar is having.  This is shot with the Rokinon 12mm.

 

 

Maybe a bug with spot metering or centre weighted, try changing it?

Which firmware are you all on?

Still unable to reproduce the problem.

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I can only reproduce the exact same issue when Smart Range + is enabled in the Dynamic Range option, stills menu.

You need to switch this off in the movie menu AND stills menu.

​Did that, nothing changes :(

Samsung Support have been notified, another guy on facebook will hear from them next week. They said they would contact Samsung Korea. I will post what my friend on facebook hears from them.

But my mind is made up. The NX1 is going back to B&H and I will try the A7s next.

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Wonder why it only affects some units not others?

It's definitely Smart Range + that does the shift. Just tried it and it's a carbon copy of what you're getting. Point at light, image gains up ISO to bring the shadows up.

It's definitely turned on and the bug is that you can't seem to turn it off even when disabled in the menus. Hope they fix it quick but very strange, because you'd think a firmware bug would be on ALL the NX1s shipped so far. And you're running V1.10 right?

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