Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Andrew Reid

The downfall of the big guys just began - BlackMagic 2.5K Cinema Camera with 12bit RAW for $3000

Recommended Posts

Nikon have just released the D3200 with Sony's superb 24 megapixel APS-C sensor.  Not sure whether the HDMI output is clean - press release is a bit vague.  Price: $700.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
[quote author=BurnetRhoades link=topic=596.msg4281#msg4281 date=1334791005]
[quote author=johnbauerphoto link=topic=596.msg4273#msg4273 date=1334784371]
yes flange depth will be the problem. EF Mount is quite "adapt-unfriendly".
[/quote]

I'm still not clear this isn't just "baggage" that's come along with the EF mount, based on existing cameras.
[/quote]

We'll see I was just stating this based on the thing I read on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=johnbauerphoto link=topic=596.msg4320#msg4320 date=1334834817]
[quote author=BurnetRhoades link=topic=596.msg4281#msg4281 date=1334791005]
[quote author=johnbauerphoto link=topic=596.msg4273#msg4273 date=1334784371]
yes flange depth will be the problem. EF Mount is quite "adapt-unfriendly".
[/quote]

I'm still not clear this isn't just "baggage" that's come along with the EF mount, based on existing cameras.
[/quote]

We'll see I was just stating this based on the thing I read on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
[/quote]

Ah, okay.  Seeing that illustration makes it clearer to me.  Thanks.  Damn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There seems a lot of concern regarding the lens-mount vs the sensor size. I have an idea that BM might be thinking of the next model with this decision. I’m no expert whatsover on camera development, but I think from a standpoint of manufacturing it takes a lot of money and time to develop a camerabody and its (hardware)components, Software can be upgraded realtively simple but hardware needs to be largely build again from the bottom up. So I was thinking that maybe BM has the intention to fit V2 of this camera (which is in itself an excellent example of an innovation in an already crowded market) with a Full Frame or (more likely) a S35 sensor.  If they would have chosen to use a lens-flange distance for M3/4 or c-mount, they would be stuck with a smaller sensor, or not? I might be misunderstanding the whole flange-distance issue of course. Again , I’m no expert on building these thing, I just shoot with them. Anyway such a version 2 with a bigger sensor would mean that they will be a big competitor for the Alexa and Red , but even more for the chinese KineRawS35, especially if they keep the pricetag more or less the same (under $4k preferably).
Other issues I read about can be tackled easily:
No HDMI for EVF: use SDI-HDMI convertor,
Short battery life: any rig should include professional 12V battery solution. At least it’s 12V and not 7,2 or something, this means that AB or V-mount can be used direclty without converters.

Another thought: how would a 2/3” HD broadcast lens fare on this baby? I guess it would create some vignetting, but could that be cropped out from the raw file when cropping to 1920x1080 for delivery? I mean I’ve got a Fujinon HA 4.5 x 13 BERD, can somebody with math skills calculate what  FOV/FF equivalent in mm it would do on this sensor?  My calculation is 4.5 x 2 (extender on lens for enough coverage I suppose) x 3.9(or less?) cropfactor computes to : 35mm . Well that would satisfy me for a wideangle, and what happens to the aperture, can anybody expand on that? Will that effectively be x 3.9 as well? Anyway DOF is overrated  ;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this camera is too overhyped imo.  24, 25, or 30p is not sufficient enough for filmmaking.  overcranking is something unique in telling a shot (from the story) or for sports enthusiasts.  I was watching the Patriot just a couple of days ago and the overcranking done in the film is really well done.  right away I was thinking of the FS700 because to me FULL HD 1080p is good enough.  I think the FS700 is really going to shine in all directions.  60 or 50p is a bonus for post slow mo digital effects for whatever NLE you're rocking. 

maybe they can revise the firmware before release and implement 60 or 50p the same way Sony and Panasonic are doing atm.  notice atm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=BurnetRhoades link=topic=596.msg4404#msg4404 date=1334890841]
[quote author=John Twigt link=topic=596.msg4368#msg4368 date=1334864547]

No HDMI for EVF
[/quote]

This isn't really a negative.  HDMI has no business in the field.  It's a terrible hardware design.  Mini-HDMI even worse.  Never again.
[/quote]

So true.  So very very true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]Quote from: BurnetRhoades on Today at 03:00:41 AM
Quote from: John Twigt on April 19, 2012, 07:42:27 PM

No HDMI for EVF

This isn't really a negative.  HDMI has no business in the field.  It's a terrible hardware design.  Mini-HDMI even worse.  Never again.

So true.  So very very true.
[/quote]
That's why you could use a SDI-HDMI converter , the cam has a 3GB SDI output, and maybe you want to use your Zacuto EVF with this camera, that has only HDMI in, so that's why I pointed this out.

[quote] 24, 25, or 30p is not sufficient enough for filmmaking.  overcranking is something unique in telling a shot (from the story) or for sports enthusiasts. [/quote]

Well. that's a matter of opinion, I think you can tell the most stories without any use for slomo. In my opinion al lot of filmmakers resort to slowmotion for extra 'dramatic' feel when the story lacks dramatic elements from itself. But to discard a camera because it has no 50p is a bit harsh I think. And don't forget this is the very first camera from this company! Think what they will do in maybe two or three years, they seems to listen to the independent filmers and when they continue to do so, we could see a lot of new features appear in the following versions (V1.x or V2.0)

All in all I think its pretty amazing to create this with this pricetag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=Leang link=topic=596.msg4371#msg4371 date=1334866755]
this camera is too overhyped imo.  24, 25, or 30p is not sufficient enough for filmmaking.  overcranking is something unique in telling a shot (from the story) or for sports enthusiasts.  I was watching the Patriot just a couple of days ago and the overcranking done in the film is really well done.  right away I was thinking of the FS700 because to me FULL HD 1080p is good enough.  I think the FS700 is really going to shine in all directions.  60 or 50p is a bonus for post slow mo digital effects for whatever NLE you're rocking. 

maybe they can revise the firmware before release and implement 60 or 50p the same way Sony and Panasonic are doing atm.  notice atm!
[/quote]

This camera is 3000. The FS700 is 8000. They are tools with different features and cost different amounts of money.

If you think you need slow mo (which you probably don't, no one really does) Then buy an FS700 and don't whine about how blackmagic didnt make the holy grail of cameras. It made a wicked nice camera with some great features for an even greater price. They are fully aware that this camera gives up some features in order to make it's price point. I'm glad it does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=BurnetRhoades link=topic=596.msg4404#msg4404 date=1334890841]
[quote author=John Twigt link=topic=596.msg4368#msg4368 date=1334864547]

No HDMI for EVF
[/quote]

This isn't really a negative.  HDMI has no business in the field.  It's a terrible hardware design.  Mini-HDMI even worse.  Never again.
[/quote]

That's true. I wouldn't want to use HDMI in my daily work but the problem is that SDI Monitors are rather expensive (nothing below 1k$ I believe). So if you on a really tight budget cost can add up quickly with this camera.

We'll see if this Thunderbold adapter idea works, otherwise we'll need to use the converter. BTW, does it need power or is it selfpowered?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed with those saying that not having HDMI is [i]not[/i] a bad thing - this camera is clearly aimed at the more serious hobbyist or emerging professional, so SDI is the right choice... With any luck, Thunderbolt might even allow us to do more than just monitor and record.

True, it's a shame there aren't any particularly cheap SDI monitors out there, but - based on spec alone - if you were looking to record 2k+ footage elsewhere, you'd be forking out much more than it'd cost to buy the BM CC and a good SDI monitor.

Sure, anyone buying this [i]might[/i] have to make a few compromises in terms of ergonomics, but really - how many of us aren't recording on rigs/tripods? This thing isn't designed to replace a GoPro or a small handheld camcorder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=596.msg4428#msg4428 date=1334928799]

If you think you need slow mo (which you probably don't, no one really does)
[/quote]

a little toooo bold there... you should really rethink cinematography.  I guess this all depends on your subjectivity of filmmaking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=Teddy B. link=topic=596.msg4430#msg4430 date=1334932642]
Agreed with those saying that not having HDMI is [i]not[/i] a bad thing - this camera is clearly aimed at the more serious hobbyist or emerging professional, so SDI is the right choice...
[/quote]

Absolutely not with you on this. You guys sometimes get contraddictory about this camera. This camera MUST be made for DSLR users who are supposed to already own lenses, monitors and accessories but really need a camera to take them to the next level without spending too much money.

If this camera is not that, then for who's made? No HDMI out, thinking about all those users that owns a small monitor such as a Zacuto evf or a smallhd WANT to be able to use it.

DSLRs are revolutionary because they give you immense power in a pocket, because you can take it in your hands, put a viewfinder or a small monitor and go, to a favela, into the jungle, in crazy positions, in difficult envyroments. If this camera is intended for a static set with SDI monitors, tripod, for us to play like we are the Orson Welles of the moment, then it really makes no sense.

So you are sure with an adaptor there is no way to use HDMI EVF or small monitors?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=Leang link=topic=596.msg4434#msg4434 date=1334933687]
[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=596.msg4428#msg4428 date=1334928799]

If you think you need slow mo (which you probably don't, no one really does)
[/quote]

a little toooo bold there... you should really rethink cinematography.  I guess this all depends on your subjectivity of filmmaking.
[/quote]

It's about the story. You dont need a camera that does 240fps to tell a story. You can slow it down in post if the effect is NEEDED to tell the story. (which 95% of the time, it isn't) Does it sometimes enhance production value? yes. I love slow mo stuff. But when I need it, I'll be happy to rent out, because it isn't that often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=596.msg4438#msg4438 date=1334938168]

It's about the story. You dont need a camera that does 240fps to tell a story. You can slow it down in post if the effect is NEEDED to tell the story. (which 95% of the time, it isn't) Does it sometimes enhance production value? yes. I love slow mo stuff. But when I need it, I'll be happy to rent out, because it isn't that often.
[/quote]

well to be honest I am not putting off BMD's cam.  I'm just saying 60p or 50p would have seemed standard.  If one is a fan of slow mo then we all know digital rendered slow mo of anything under 30fps is more of a ghosting spread effect even at small percentages.  twixtor's nice, but better when you have more frames to rock.  you have to shoot specific for a post effect under 30fps.  this is why I am just saying that the FS700 (and 4k ready) with 240fps at 1080p is going to be great.  and who knows what Sony's markup will be now that BMD is around with their new cam.  please believe that I'm not an avid Sony fan.  I am just hopeful that a firmware update to at least 60fps will be available for BMD.  just because it's $3k doesn't warrant it the next best thing for serious all around cinematography when the client demands it.  also I'm not too fond of this Fisher Price aesthetic too.  :(  however, it doesn't mean I'll not consider buying it because of general image quality.  but let's be realistic about ''filmmaking'' in regards to elite festivals.  image isn't everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is part of the reason thunderbolt is included is to monitor from laptops?  More and more laptops will have this connection.  Not portable but it is a very accurate and customizable and upgradable.  Laptop stands, even those connecting to a tripod are cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard the BM camera might eventually have ISO 3200 on the production model.
Will future firmware give us 1080p 60fps? Even 720p 60fps would be nice. I think BM need competition at the 2k-3k price bracket to give us that something like the Digital Bolex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...