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Andrew Reid

Panasonic: Consumer market will lead on 4K

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4K, 8K, 10K, a dollar. All for the completion of the GH3 User's Guide stand up and holler!

Is there anyone else out there that actually likes and uses this great little lowly "so last year" 1080p camera or is that crickets I hear?

 

 

Don't be irritated by hypes. I still soldier on with my reliable GH2. Never before in my life had I made so many videos. 

 

They want to sell what they can develop relatively easily, CODECs and chips, instead of what really diminishes the quality of most video, from production to display--low dynamic range and as NTSC used to be mocked as, "Never The Same Color" twice.  That said, I doubt consumer video will change much, in that regard.  Data requirements just too high.  What Panasonic could do is allow Vitaliy to hack the GH line into producing RAW video.  Doubt that would ever be a press release though!

 

That's it. The more better graded raw videos will flood the net, the more will all those 4k-downscalers (I call them 'Pro-Dads' for the amateur dad's software Mercalli) realize how "so last century" and how desperately videoish their Son-Pan-Can-4k pixel-puddles look

 

The line about the AVC Ultra as being the favored codec in the roadmap is very encouraging but I'll ask the obvious question. How does this decision impact the current NLE hardware/software setups that are in place by those editing in REDCODE, Prores etc?

 

Good question. The downside of ProRes is that it's not particularly state of the art in terms of efficiency, it's like carrying around a kettle of soup, though a bouillon cube would do and some hot water at home. Compression is not the devil, and Panasonic did always well with highly compressed codecs. Just think about a clever way to avoid the high data rates and big files that come with raw. 

 

Also, Panasonic always tried to be compatible. Probably they provide a solution for every big NLE. I wouldn't worry about that.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I think it's only sports and other real life events people want to feel they're really watching that benefit. 120fps 4K sport or historical political speech is probably great! Or a concert maybe or theatre.

 

Not so much a film drama...

 

Because with a film you'll feel like you're really on set rather  than in the world of the movie. Which sucks...

 

As long as it's divisible by standard frame-rates and we can can turn off the frame-smoothing interpolation stuff it's all good!

 

Last time I used a giant Samsung plasma in an office to play back a film, I went through and turned off so many things! Frame smoothing, automatic dynamic contrast, ridiculous over saturation, some strange colour correction, a weird sharpening mode.

 

So as long as you can turn it off, all is good...

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I'm not sure how I feel about this - and I'm not trying to debate - I want to like my GH3 but I would love something focused entirely on filming rather than a hybrid - at times it does feel like some features were rushed or compromised: 4:2:2? Focus peaking? The all intra seems unusable in the hint of low light, I'm also waiting for a "decent" firmware update.

 

I would also like to see improvements on the user experience - the camera UI has a lot of segregated options, both in the software, and physical; this might be me but if you're in a rush to shoot, there's a lot of precheck.  

 

The video mentions their dedication on broadcast quality so I hope that's a hint. Regardless, I'm excited to see what this news is about in a couple of weeks

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Panasonic published two technological advances recently: their micro color splitter and the Pan/Fuji organic sensor development... would be nice to see them in a product... I´m more hoping for the organic sensor though: 88db of dynamic range - even better than the just posted TrueSense gems

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Just for reference, the italian BBC1, RAI1 is actually broadcasting in SD 4:3. Digital terrestrial TV, is horribly implemented and you more often that not get glitchy videoart instead of your favourite program. We haven't even Full HD working for all of us and now they want 4K 120fps..... I hope the next Mac Pro is not THAT expensive!

Please read my prior posts ^ 4K is for oversampling. cropping and archiving. Shall I dub that "COA"

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Hang on, why do we need to wait 2-3 weeks for a rumor? If there is rumor out there spill it, isn't that what 43rumors is all about?  Or is 43rumors only allowed to publish what Panasonic and Olympus allow it to publish?

 

Hmmmmmm

Very often the sharing of a high value 'rumor' is pre-shared with select press with the condition that the PR department that shared that rumor gets first dibs on the release (that what they get paid for right) . It's called a 'Publication Embargo' in the business. We respect that because it keeps the rumors flowing. Albeit, the forums and blogs get second place in right to release- but it's better that having NO advance notice at all.

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43rumors are waiting because they want to protect the source. There's no 'deal' or conditions at all. And no, manufacturers do not get involved with purposeful leaks. Every time a leak occurs it has the potential to negatively impact sales of existing models on the shelf. We had the info jointly sent to us by a known source. I am actually quite reluctant to publish it at all.

 

And remember that with rumour information, it is a rumour. Could be wrong could be right!

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43rumors are waiting because they want to protect the source. There's no 'deal' or conditions at all. And no, manufacturers do not get involved with purposeful leaks. Every time a leak occurs it has the potential to negatively impact sales of existing models on the shelf. We had the info jointly sent to us by a known source. I am actually quite reluctant to publish it at all.

 

And remember that with rumour information, it is a rumour. Could be wrong could be right!

"manufacturers do not get involved with purposeful leaks. Every time a leak occurs it has the potential to negatively impact sales of existing models on the shelf. We had the info jointly sent to us by a known source. I am actually quite reluctant to publish it at all."
You got me totally befuddled with that one. So we all agree to wait and see? That's cute.

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I just want OMD type stabilisation in a GH camera, the 2-axis implementation for stills is a start, hopefully the next model will be more effective and include video.  Since Olympus won't improve their video frame rates, it's up to Pana to fill the gap and invest in IBIS.

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You got me totally befuddled with that one. So we all agree to wait and see? That's cute.

 

I may as well be talking to a guinea pig. You're not privy to the situation. Now go and cry like the baby you are.

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I just want OMD type stabilisation in a GH camera, the 2-axis implementation for stills is a start, hopefully the next model will be more effective and include video.  Since Olympus won't improve their video frame rates, it's up to Pana to fill the gap and invest in IBIS.

 

The 5-axis system is patented. Panasonic should just license it like Sony are doing for the full frame NEX 9.

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It would be a shame if they skipped the 4 on the next GH, going straight on to 5. If, for example, it has 4k (which I doubt), they could call it the GH4k, haha.

 

Better would be RAW video, but that's even more unlikely than 4k. Oh well, I guess we're just going to have to be patient and wait and see what unfolds! :)

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A 4K GH4 would be an interesting toe in the 4K market for Panasonic, and give them a valuable impression of real world demand for a semi-pro 4K camera which also has cross over appeal with consumers.

 

Panasonic tend to skip 4 as it is an unlucky number in Japanese culture but Nikon don't (hence D4).

 

I think the 4K era is as good a time as any to lose the fear of 4!

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It would be a shame if they skipped the 4 on the next GH, going straight on to 5. If, for example, it has 4k (which I doubt), they could call it the GH4k, haha.

 

Better would be RAW video, but that's even more unlikely than 4k. Oh well, I guess we're just going to have to be patient and wait and see what unfolds! :)

 

They should take the lead from Canon and leave raw video there to be "discovered"

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I finaly got to check out 4K at a sony Centre..... thouroughly underwhelmed.

 

Maybe they had messed up the playback or it was upscaled HD,,,, but it was ruined by compression and was about a 20% upgrade on HD from anywhere other than 10" away from the screen.

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I finaly got to check out 4K at a sony Centre..... thouroughly underwhelmed.

 

Maybe they had messed up the playback or it was upscaled HD,,,, but it was ruined by compression and was about a 20% upgrade on HD from anywhere other than 10" away from the screen.

 

4K delivery for consumers is useless. 4K, 8K and on for production of content is extremely useful.

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A 4K GH4 would be an interesting toe in the 4K market for Panasonic, and give them a valuable impression of real world demand for a semi-pro 4K camera which also has cross over appeal with consumers.

 

Panasonic tend to skip 4 as it is an unlucky number in Japanese culture but Nikon don't (hence D4).

 

I think the 4K era is as good a time as any to lose the fear of 4!

Does that mean we get an extra iteration of bug fixes if they skip to 5? ;)

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I finaly got to check out 4K at a sony Centre..... thouroughly underwhelmed.

Maybe they had messed up the playback or it was upscaled HD,,,, but it was ruined by compression and was about a 20% upgrade on HD from anywhere other than 10" away from the screen.

Here are the facts:
> To be physically able to distinguish between 2k and 4k, the image has to be really big. Your point of view must form a equilateral triangle with the left and right borders of the screen (what John Galt calls: Sit before row six!).
> This is so close, that the image gets noticably distorted, and few will remain there if there are any free seats behind this.
> If you do it right and let yourself be almost surrounded by this giant image, you won't see a better quality than the folks from the middle. Unfortunately, it's the other way around: Had it only been a 2k image, you had now the chance to see the resolution's limit: pixels.
> The equation reads "higher resolution = bigger image".
> Quality is no factor in this.
> Resolution @ 2k or 4k is also no longer about "detail" or loss of it. On the contrary, it's about being able to render more organic, smoother surfaces.
> A sunset that suddenly fills your whole field of vision looks dramatically different than the same sunset on your smartphone. I already said that the size of the bigger image should have higher resolution, but that alone won't do, because there are two conditions yet to be fulfilled.
> Color resolution. The rule, that we can skip 1:1 chroma sampling, because our own eyes only read 4:2:0, only is valid for the fovea, when we see something small that we can stare at. A 4k image (from close) will resemble a black&white film that was manually colored. It will look "dead".
> Color depth. Gradients that have perfect pixel resolution can't spread only a few HSL values. You might expect banding artifacts, and they may indeed show up, but not always. What you will always get is an artificial looking, flat image without vivid colors, ugly.

About upscaling and downscaling:
> In both cases, every pixel of the image is an interpolation.
> It's a myth that a downscaled image from 4k to 1080 contains more detail, it contains more interpolation-artifacts.
> There IS sophisticated downscaling ...
> ,,, as there is ever better upscaling.
> 4k needs to be 10-bit 4:2:2. At least.

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