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There is an optimum resolution and sharpness. More is not always better. This is why movies aren't all shot with the highest MTF lenses currently available - DoPs choose the optimal lenses and apertures for the scene / project. However, I shoot with cheap cameras (iPhone, GX85, GH5, etc) which are far too sharp, and look video-ish. Luckily, we can reduce this in post. This thread is me trying to work out: What the range of optimal resolution / sharpnesses are actually out there (from serious professionals, not moronic camera YouTubers or internet forum pedants) What might be a good point to aim for How I might treat iPhone / GX85 / other cheap shitty video-looking footage so it looks the least video it can be These techniques will likely apply to all semi-decent consumer cameras, and should be able to be adjusted to taste. I'm still at the beginning of this journey, and am still working out how to even tackle it, but I thought I'd start with some examples of what we're talking about. Reference stills from the Atlas Lens Co demos from their official YT channel, shot on Komodo and uploaded 6 months ago: (You have to click on these images to expand them, otherwise you're just looking at the forum compression...) Reference stills from the Cooke SP3 demos from the official Cooke YT channel, uploaded 11 days ago: I've deliberately chosen frames that have fine detail (especially fly-away hair lit with a significant contrast to what is behind it), in perfect focus, with zero motion blur. I think this is the most revealing as it tends to be the thing that is right at the limits of the optical system. So, what are we seeing here? We're seeing things in focus, with reasonable fine detail. It doesn't look SHARP, it doesn't look BLURRED, it doesn't look VINTAGE, it doesn't overly look MODERN (to me at least) and doesn't look UNNATURAL. It looks nice, and it definitely looks high quality and makes me want to own the camera/lens combo (!) but it basically looks neutral. But, that's not always the case. This is also from the same Cooke SP3 promo video: The fine detail is gone, despite there being lots of it in the scene. Is this the lens? Is this the post-pipeline? We don't know, but it's a desirable enough image for Cooke (one of the premier cinema lens manufacturers in the world) to put it in their 2.5 minute demo reel on their official main page. It also has a bit more feel than the previous images. Contrast that with these SOOC shots from my iPhone 12 Mini: I mean.... seriously! (If you're not basically dry-wrenching then you haven't opened the image up to view it full-screen.. the compressed in-line images are very tastefully smoothed over by the compression) More: and my X3000 action camera also has this problem: Those with long memories will recall I've been down this road before, but I feel like I have gained enough knowledge to be able to have a decent stab at it this time. We'll see anyway. Follow along if you're open to the idea that more isn't better...

Ah, I thought there was a second capsule in the end, obviously I didn't look hard enough! That makes sense, as you could use any shotgun, but need this special design for the Side part.

Are you referring to the 3 RAW clips they provide? Did you compare the footage to P6K footage also from BM? Did you also compare to the UMP12K? I ask because so much of what we see online now is just differences in the skill level of the colourist rather than the camera. When I can look at test clips online and know how I would grade it to make it better, you know you're in trouble, but that's all too common unfortunately!

Regarding the softness you experienced, is it linked to the Log profile perhaps? The reason I suggest this is that I've found the same thing on the XC10 (which has it when shooting C-Log in 8-bit) so if the GoPro is shooting log in 10-bit vs non-log in 10-bit then that might be flatter and what you're seeing. Interestingly the bitrate didn't matter with that because the XC10 was in the 300Mbps mode, but still suffered from the quantisation. Maybe try a few test shots in the different colour profiles and see what differences there are between them.

Far too expensive for my purposes, but it is encouraging to see an M-S mic. Why would you want a pair of them though.. aren't they stereo if you mix in the second channel in post? Or is the second one for a safety channel at a lower gain?

The new camera is full-frame, so the crop-factor should be 1.

Yeah, I've run into people who thought that the P4K was the OG BMPCC. I've also started to run into professionals like doctors etc who are waaaay younger than I am. Soon I'll look around and the world will be being run by toddlers...

Yes, the video from the iPhone is no match for the RAW android video. I suspect the BM camera app will be subject to all the same image processing that the normal app is subject to, just with adjustable compression ratios. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen any examples of third-party apps having less processing than the default app.

Good point and I think it's one I have gradually been becoming aware of. It's a funny thing, when I was using the GH5 I got used to using the EVF, but since swapping back to the GX85 I went back to using the screen. Looking back on it, I think I used the GH5 EVF partly because it provides a third point of contact for stabilising things, and I suspect partly because the flippy screen is a bit of a pain to tilt because you have to pull it out to the side first and then it sort-of gets in the way if your left hand is cradling the camera and operating the lens. I have vague memories about thinking it felt odd to swap to the EVF when I did that, and then that it was odd to go back to using the screen when I changed back, but after you get used to something then it becomes second nature. I definitely notice that people immediately look at you when you raise a camera to your eye...

Do people say "P6K" when they mean the Pro version? I haven't seen it, but maybe it's something I've missed. But yes, confusion! Yes, that would be quite a good implementation. A bit messier in the rig, but still not ridiculous. I saw a discussion video online that was saying their app was iPhone only and didn't control their other cameras, but it does raise the potential for their app to be expanded to also be able to connect and remotely monitor and control other cameras, which would be pretty good. I'd go so far as to say that the app might have even started as a remote control app where they decided to allow it to use the iPhone camera, which then got rolled out in the first version. I don't have a deep understanding of their live switching options, but what I do know about it is very impressive and if I was a live streamer / podcaster then it would be my first call to put together a setup. The BM cameras aren't a good fit for what I do because they're not really designed for people like me, but it does seem that they really nail it for their target customers. Absolutely! I had Filmic Pro installed on my phone from ages ago and recently updated it and opened it up and saw it wanted to charge me for just using it, even though I had previously bought it outright. Let's just say it got removed from my phone pretty darn quickly after that discovery! "Don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out!" Oh wow, that's a pretty aggressive move in the ecosystem wars! BM is also notable for not supporting Prores RAW in Resolve too, essentially forcing Resolve folks to either convert their files or switch to BRAW. I'd be curious to see what the equivalent bitrate BRAW file was like compared to Prores - I suspect it might be similar quality. If I ended up with a more modern camera I'd be trying this as a first step. BRAW provides a "custom non‑linear 12‑bit space designed to provide the maximum amount of color data and dynamic range" which is something only Prores 4444 etc can provide, so shooting BRAW gives the extra bit depth that Prores typically doesn't on these cameras. Prores HQ in UHD is ~700Mbps, and BRAW UHD 5:1 is about ~670Mbps. So BRAW goes to a higher bitrate than most Prores implementations (in the BRAW 3:1 mode), and also goes lower (Prores Proxy UHD is ~150Mbps and Prores LT is 328Mbps and BRAW 12:1 is about 280Mbps, so in the middle of those two).

Interesting! I did scour the product page and specs hoping for a wifi interface and an associated control app, but alas. It also uses the USB-C port for ethernet control, so if you're recording over the USB-C you can't use it for control as well. The alternative would be to have a SDI recorder/monitor and use the USB-C as a controller, but that's a significant step-up in cost for the recorder. Of course, if you paired it with a BM Video Assist recorder then that would be a sweet package for those who can deal with rigged-up camera packages.

I just downloaded it.. it has shutter angle!

Can you use the new Micro Studio Camera as a 4K60 stand-alone camera? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicmicrostudiocamera It has a battery backup, so can you just run it from the battery permanently? It can record BRAW to USB, it has HDMI out for monitoring (like the previous model).

Just looking at the iPhone app, and there are some interesting things in here..... https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagiccamera/techspecs/W-APP-01 Apple ProRes 4444 Automatically generates 1920 x 1080 HD HEVC proxy files for each recording 24fps, 25fps, 30fps, 48fps, 50fps, 60fps False Color Guides Display LUT Guides Timecode Recording - Record Run or Time of Day (TOD) timecode Some of these are likely dependent on specific iPhone models, but it looks like they've been digging into the iPhone camera spec and simply unlocking everything they think would be useful? Then I'd just need to figure out how to launch an app without it taking 17 steps - the default one is on the Lock Screen FFS.

😆😆😆 Love your work, as always!! Looks like they've left room for the Pro version to be released in next-years new camera announcement.. unless you can't fit a FF sensor and ND mechanism into that chassis? Of course, the real issue is the acronyms! P6K could be referring to the old S35 6K model or the new FF model, or the new S35 G2 model where the person dropped the G2 part for brevity! Oh the confusion!!

I really hope that you're wrong, but your points make sense and it might simply be how the economics play out. I'd hope that even if they released an updated GX camera, they could retain the same body/battery/EVF/etc, but offer improved bitrates / frame-rates / profiles. A GX95 that took advantage of most/all of the modes on the new sensors would be wonderful. In terms of the idea that smartphones killed cameras of this size, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work, but one that the industry seems to make time and again.... the idea that serious people want a large camera and people who want a small camera don't want quality. I shoot with the GX85 and iPhone 12 Mini, and I can assure you, the difference in image quality is night and day. What do I mean by night and day? I mean, the image quality of the GX85 shooting at night is better than the iPhone shooting during the day!

This is my impression as well, and the main difference between the G and GX style bodies that I see. Even the width isn't so bad considering that the minimum width of your camera when viewed from the front is the width of the lens + the width of your hand on the grip-side. A seriously low-profile shotgun mic would be spectacular as well - all the commercial offerings are all dramatically larger than they need to be, except perhaps that Sony hot-shoe one which seems to be more compact.

I did note this from a few weeks ago: https://ymcinema.com/2023/08/24/panasonic-develops-a-variable-built-in-electronic-nd-filter/ Who knows what camera that's destined for, but at least they're thinking about it. The more I think about it, the more I think the G9 looks like an "Oh shit, the GH6 is tanking... what can we super quickly get out there to keep MFT folks in the system?"

Best of luck in your return to the industry! 🙂 In terms of creativity and movies that are duds, I think there are lots of reasons why someone might go from being great to having a few 'misses'. Obviously losing touch with our shared humanity is one reason, but it might just be that they are tackling a difficult subject and didn't get it right, or they managed to execute their vision but others just didn't gel with it, or it got watered down by the studios or through creative differences within the team that couldn't be resolved. We're all very different in how we understand the world and how the various concepts in it are related to each other. Making a film that reaches a broad audience in a meaningful way but isn't overly simplistic is a very tough call. There's a whole thing about how the mid-budget movie segment is in rapid decline and studios are now trying to create characters so that instead of an actor being the thing that's famous it'll be Batman / James Bond / etc that's famous and they can just rotate actors through the roles ditching them when they ask for too much money. I've posted this video before, but it's a good critique of how things have become:

What's the point of having a FF sensor inside a full frame body? What's the point of having ANY camera the size of a full frame body? I can think of a great many reasons why having a slightly larger bodied camera would be advantageous beyond being able to stick a bigger sensor in it. Almost all of those advantages also apply if the sensor was an MFT one. The size differences between camera bodies do make you question what the things are that take up space. I was looking only this morning at the size differences between the GX85 and the GM1, and was stunned at how much smaller it is again.... Of course, no camera is the Tardis and things like cooling for processing and compression, IBIS, batteries, EVFs, etc do all take up some space. One thing that makes me seriously question the whole thing is smartphone cameras. Think about it, they're smaller than an SD card, and obviously the sensor in them is very small, but all the image processing and compression etc is done in there too, and once the data has been read off the sensor then data is data. If I placed the camera module from a smartphone on my desk, then put next to it a "proper" sized sensor, battery, lens, SD card, and screen, I'm still absolutely nowhere near the size of the GX85 even, let alone a 1DX! I can't fault Panasonic for putting an MFT sensor in a larger body, the thing that will be sad is if they ONLY put it in a larger body, and don't refresh the smaller form-factors. I love my GX85 but there's no doubt that the ergonomics and array of buttons on the GH5 or XC10 are a superior user experience. If Panasonic released an updated GX line camera, and also released an updated GM line camera that had similar performance as the GX85, I'd be very tempted by the smaller GM size, but it's almost too small to be able to hold steady and by the time you put a lens on it other than the 12-32mm or 14mm or 15mm pancake lenses then the difference from a GX sized body would almost be irrelevant.

Damn! What on earth is that thing?

I was thinking of making a Peaky Blinders joke as I read through the thread, but you beat me to it. I laughed so hard at this I started to cry a little.. nice work as always!!

I continue to participate in those discussions because I figure that there are enough people lurking who have the same question that it's worth answering it anyway. In terms of them being wankers, I think one thing that we often forget is how completely overwhelming video can be. I came to video from stills, and I'm a technical person who reads a lot, but even I completely underestimated the sheer number of topics involved and the depth of each topic. Also, cameras are so compromised when it comes to video that simple questions like "what camera should I buy" involve considering literally dozens of trade-offs per camera, and that's before you talk about the wider ecosystem like lenses and accessories etc. I can't think of any other product that is as complicated to buy as a video camera, where the tiny details make so much of an impact on real-world use. I think a lot of those people asked a simple question and are simply overwhelmed by the replies they get.

I'm sorry to hear about what you experienced. I take a pretty pessimistic view (I think of it as realistic, but others might not) that power corrupts, and because those in power are able to avoid consequences, are prone to behaving the way they want to. Some estimates are that 4% of people are sociopaths and 1% are psychopaths, which puts a lot of people in the situation that if they gain power they will use it to take advantage of others, and to maintain that power they have. Priority #1 of people who do things that society rejects is to hide that from the world, and priority #1 of powerful people is to keep that power. We are animals after all, and further to that, we are the descendants of those that "won" at the reproducing game, which doesn't only incentivise being nice and considerate. In terms of if fame kills creativity, I think that it would if you lose touch with the parts of the human experience we all share. It's well known that rich / powerful people still suffer from mental illness and commit suicide so those things don't separate you from the human experience, but if you get caught up in ego and trying to act like you're better than everyone else or that your life is somehow better then your work will no longer include the things that we all share.. it takes courage to reach into yourself and connect with the uncomfortable feelings that we would prefer weren't there. I think it also includes staying connected to why you do something in the first place. I see lots of good YT people get into YT to be creative and then get caught up in the algorithm or in product reviews and the commercial aspects of it, and because they're not motivated by those things they get burnt out. I used to think that in life you got energy from sleeping and then doing things during the day would make you tired. Now I realise that this is true physically, but mental energy comes from doing what you are inspired to do, so if you're mentally tired it's because you're not doing things in accordance with your own values and preferences. Of course, if you're a creative person running their own business then practical considerations mean that you might have to talk to clients, do the finances, etc, but if you're inspired by the business enough creatively then that motivation should power you through those "required" tasks. As soon as those things are seriously getting you down, it's because you're not getting mentally inspired elsewhere enough to carry you through those things.

😂😂😂 Fair enough. The issue, I think, is that while you have perspective and are ignoring these sorts of over-reactions, I don't think the rest of the world, or the manufacturers marketing departments are, thus by repeating this BS over and over I think it makes it come true. It certainly doesn't push things in the right direction. I suppose it really depends on what happens in the next year or so. Scenario 1: Panasonic releases an updated GX camera, which satisfies those who want a smaller body, and an updated GH camera, which has the things that this G9 doesn't have. If this is the case then the G9ii will be part of a sensible line-up of cameras, will offer good value for money, and will allow users to not have to span multiple mounts. This release might have been pushed up because of the failure of the GH6. Scenario 2: There aren't updates to the GX or GH line for a while, and this G9 will represent Panasonic putting their sensor in a body that is unnecessarily large, but is shared with another model, and it will have been a cost cutting measure. Indeed, a museum camera is my main priority. However, I'd prefer to have a museum camera and a larger more powerful camera with the same lens mount, rather than having the museum camera be MFT and there being no powerful MFT camera. The FP is a great example of what is possible, of course. I wonder if we took that form factor and put an IBIS mechanism in it, and a chip that encoded a large range of compressed codecs, how large it would be then. I'd also be happy if it had a slight bump forwards as a grip if they used that space to make the battery larger. Perhaps the point of disagreement is over these two statements: Small MFT cameras should exist because this is an advantage of the sensor size OR ONLY small MFT cameras should exist because this is an advantage of the sensor size I believe it's the first one. The advantages I've outlined previously (and others I didn't comment on) apply to MFT regardless of what size the body is. Ah, I thought it was the 16mm, my bad. But, going back to the point about lens size, I still maintain that the pursuit of optical perfection is what made the lenses larger, and that by constantly wanting sharper lenses and higher resolution systems that everyone drove the lenses to get larger. Nice! You should be less shy about talking about the work this company has done to advance the technology... I tell people all the time that if the problem is people who don't know anything constantly doing self-promotion, the answer isn't for people who do know things to sit quietly and say nothing. LOL about your testing setup. I do think that manufacturers are missing a trick with IBIS. The GoPro does EIS, which involves moving the sensor crop around on the captured image, which results in the same wide-angle wobble that that IBIS exhibits, but they compensate for the lens and so the results are buttery smooth. This is the same compensation mechanism that is used in 360 cameras too. All Panasonic or others would have to do is to stretch the image in accordance with the current position of the IBIS mechanism and the FOV of the lens, and it would be completely eliminated. This is up there with RS compensation too, where the camera would be able to compensate for the motion of the camera and the IBIS mechanism that occurred while the shutter was moving, at least for short shutter speeds where RS is visible. I looked for software that would do stabilisation that accounted for lens FOV and the only option I found cost several thousand dollars, when it could just be built into the camera, like it is with GoPro and smartphones already. Yeah, the GH6 was a bit of a lemon. I suspect that them releasing the G9ii is to try and recover from it by releasing a powerful full-size bodied camera. The thing I don't understand is why when Panasonic releases an MFT camera people don't like (or releases a FF camera) everyone jumps up and down declaring that MFT has been abandoned or ruined, but when Sony released the FX30 no-one said that they were abandoning or ruining FF. It's very strange to me. @BTM_Pix remember I said that people get dramatic?