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I realise that other companies are also no slouch at innovation, and I was half-kidding about wanting to be a BMD fanboy. In terms of BMD being slow to compete with hybrid features, well yeah, we're back about half-a-dozen pages in this thread where I was basically shouting from the rooftops about it being a cinema camera.... but in a sense it has taken a half-step to being a hybrid as it does have some of the hybrid features, albeit weak implementations. I think it's trying to be a hybrid and failing about as much as hybrids are trying to be cinema cameras and failing. Everyone wants the best of both worlds and as various manufacturers offer up cameras that get closer and closer to the middle ground between the two we're getting more and more confused about what type of cameras there are, what types there should be, and what types are best for us (and the job we have at hand..). I am pretty stoked at how fast Resolve has come over the last few years though. In that regard they're basically the only ones jumping ahead significantly.

I'd love to be a BM fanboy.. they're pushing out products that are big leaps forward, not the usual "it's 4% better than last-years model" that is so common. I love Resolve, despite it being buggy and now so complicated it might be easier to actually fly the space shuttle, but they just don't make cameras targeted at me! ??? I agree. We may find that the 1080 output (either 1080 RAW, 1080 Prores, or 4K to 1080 downscale in post) is a really cinematic sweet spot. I'm looking forward to those tests. It certainly would be a good compliment between the GH5 and P4K. Both great cameras, but optimised for different tasks. I think you have the right attitude - not the "which is better" mindset, but the "the best tool for the job depends on the job" mindset

Thanks Anonim! I've mapped the ETC and IS Video Lock to buttons. That IS Video Lock is really great - I just tried it for walking and it does a really respectable job - almost gimbal-like movement, and in a couple of places perhaps even a bit floaty for my tastes. Definitely something to reach for when I want more aggressive stabilisation, and of course, a static shot I just setup HLG, but unfortunately it's not available in 4K60 or 180fps modes... what would you suggest for filming slow-motion shots? Cineline-D seemed to be the previous favourite? I'm ok in Resolve to match shots ok, but getting it closer to HLG would be nicer I think I like the GHa conversion more for the highlight softening than I do for the colour, and the colour is pretty darn nice. I was contemplating a new thread about how much of 'colour science' is hue and how much is luminance, but that's another topic. I have so much to learn and so much reading to do. With the XC10 there was basically no-one talking about it and no support whatsoever, and now for the GH5 it will be a matter of sifting through the content to get the good bits because there's so much of it around! Of course, better to have too much advice than too little, and I ingest information pretty easily, so it's definitely the problem I'd rather have. I have done some tests with the 14mm 2.5 and all I can say is I can't wait until my other lenses arrive! Neither the f2.5 or the MF ring of this lens are really floating my boat, but the IQ looks lovely, and I don't even have a 400Mbit capable memory card yet, so I've only played with 150Mbit files.

Does anyone use the 4:3 open gate mode without anamorphic lenses? This guy thinks it's a winner, and he compares it to a RAW photo, but doesn't compare it with the DCI 4K 400Mbit mode which might be just as good perhaps?

Thanks @jonpais - I actually watched his video last night! I just wrote a big post asking how to set things up the way I wanted, but I figured it out. I now have C1 as C4K-10bit, C2 as 4K60, and C3 as 1080p180, with all of them in Aperture priority and auto-ISO. I couldn't work out how to set this up until I realised I could set a bunch of things in "Camera-M" mode but then save them to the Custom modes... I was in the Custom mode looking for movie settings that weren't available in the menus! A confusing start, but I think I'm there. So now, 24 hours after bought it, I think I'm ready to record my first test clip! ??? I only have the 14mm 2.5 on it for the moment until next week when my m42 adapter and lenses show up. I'm anticipating another steep learning curve at that point Of course, there will also be learning curves when: I pull footage into Resolve for the first time, I buy the V-Log update, I get the GHa package, etc etc etc...

I'm now an official member of the GH5 owners club. Spent three hours last night trying to understand the settings and set up the camera how I want it. I am so confused!! I'll work it out, but holy wow, the complex interactions of the record format, record quality, VFR option, and system frequency settings are making my brain hurt..

Have you posted in the BM forums? Those forums are good because that's where the real power users hang out but I've definitely noticed that it's mainly people helping each other, and BM typically fix it in a future release or just leave people hanging with bugs that don't get fixed over many many releases. BM are more focussed on fast development rather than taking their time to make every release polished and super stable. I guess that's the price for the crazy number of features they provide for the price.

This is true.. and these days, it's not a terrible backup option Good point! even if it took me a while to work out what you were talking about ???

After I posted those shots of the Philip Bloom pushed and pulled around I had the same thoughts and wondered how well other lesser footage would respond. So I pulled in a shot from my XC10 in C-Log and a shot from my 700D and applied the same push and pull. I expected both to not stand up, and of course the 700D footage broke so hard it looked like modern art, but the 305Mbit 8-bit C-Log from the XC10 looked just fine. As I don't film like PB I didn't have a shot with similar tonal distribution, and then all my thoughts about how camera comparisons aren't done right (by basically anyone) so I didn't end up posting them. I really like the look of the OG Pocket and this one hasn't given the same wow factor, but considering that BM release early and tweak, considering that we've not had many examples of footage that was well shot, considering the extensive camera tests that high-end cinematographers do with a new camera working out it's sweet spots and optimal settings, and the maturity of understanding with other contenders like the GH5, A7Sii, etc, we really can't tell what potential there is in this camera yet.

I'm interested in how much redundant equipment people bring in case of malfunctions. I know it's not that common to take two bodies or duplicate lenses and that it's basically inevitable that people have multiple batteries and media, but who takes things like duplicate battery chargers, card readers, microphones, cables, and computers on set or when travelling? I shoot travel so tend to travel light, but I'm contemplating buying a spare charger, card reader, and a few little bits like that to lessen the number of single-points-of-failure while I'm out travelling.

Wow.. that will be such a great combo. I know that time is money for people who have to turn things around quickly as you say, but this could also be a way of getting proxy files to edit with but not having to wait for the computer to render them when you ingest the footage. A good media management program (or even just a script like I have) would mean it's not that much harder to ingest the footage from two sources instead of one.

Indeed it is. I've seen lots of YouTubers do their tutorials in mixing sound and adding foley and it's truly amazing at how much latitude you have with making things still believable. and how much the sound really makes a difference. I've heard people say that the picture is for the viewers brain and the sound is for the viewers emotions. I think excellent sound and music is one of the reasons I like many movies. A few that come to mind is The Hours and Run Lola Run, and I'm also reminded of the cult Australian hit Hercules Returns. Highly recommended

Yep. and for those who are used to shooting in those rec709 profiles and throwing on a LUT in post it's definitely a case of "oh Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore!!" ???

You might be a silly tourist, but in film-making terms you're definitely not! Truly nice work, and if the modest setup is limiting you then it's not coming through in the edit. Makes me want to sell everything and buy an RX100 and just go shoot stuff, which is a sign of a successful film! Subscribed.

Or just own it, and do every interview between two ferns!! Surely there are some fake ones you can buy that will come apart and fit into a tripod bag?? ???

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. I've read that Olympus helped Panasonic with the IBIS in the GH5 and that's why it's so good, but the difference seems to be more like 10-20% better rather than night-and-day. Yes, ideally I'd wait, but I've run out of time before my next trip so I'm picking up a GH5 today. In the end it was the 10-bit, 4K60, 1080p180, 29 minute limit and the noisy preamps on the EM1ii that swayed me. Even if the image and stabilisation is nicer, those are still differences I can't get past unfortunately. The EM1ii looks like a much better camera for stills, especially with PDAF and the 50MP sensor shift, but I'm almost 100% video so it's just not the right match for me.

Of course.. I didn't think of that. It's like they're cheating lol record 360p and upscale in camera to 4K.....

I agree. Lots of people are saying "this 4K RAW isn't that much better than our best H264 cameras, how disappointing" when I think they should be saying "wow, our H264 cameras weren't completely put to shame by this 4K RAW camera, how things have changed since the BMPCC, and aren't we spoiled for choice now!". I totally agree. I watched the 2012 Zacuto camera challenge recently (doing it blind as they suggested) and ended up putting the cameras in three tiers, which I found out afterwards were basically sorting them by price! The only exception to that was the F65 which I placed in the middle tier instead of the top tier because I didn't like the grade. I think there are two ways to properly execute a camera comparison - set the cameras to their flattest profile and show the files untouched out of the camera having only done a WB, or use a colour checker and have the NLE grade it for you using the full checker so it can linearise the luminance and adjust primaries and all that stuff. Otherwise, like you say, we're evaluating their grade and not the camera. Has anyone compared the P4K to the BMPCC by downscaling the P4K to 1080 and then comparing? Sharpness and resolution have a lot to do with things being cinematic...

That file that Philip Bloom uploaded is pretty interesting. I have very little experience with grading high-end footage, but this seems to be really gradable and very difficult to break. Here's a frame without any processing linked at the bottom of this post. and the waveform: If I adjust levels to use the full height then I get this: and using contrast and pivot we can push it up or down a really long way... There is a little noise there on the guys jacket, but it doesn't look like fixed pattern, and this is pushing it until it breaks. Crazy stuff. Thanks to Philip Bloom for the file PB BMPCC4K test footage Untouched_1.1.1.tif

IIRC he said something about wanting to improve his outputs. I'm not quite sure if that was in output or in learning, but he's hardly the first to think that new equipment will help creatively. Unfortunately it can be true sometimes, new equipment can inspire, or challenge you to work in a new way, or make you overcome new challenges and learn something useful etc.

Good points. He does talk a little about why he bought it in the video so I'd recommend watching it if you haven't already. What is your definition of cinematographer vs videographer? Not being sarcastic - I googled this very thing some time ago and there didn't seem to be much consensus. People have commented before that many people will buy the P4K and then get a shock and sell/return it and others have said that if it didn't do RAW internally then there probably wouldn't be the hype around it that there is. I think these are symptoms of it being a cinema camera and people not understanding the differences. The original pocket kind of taught the average person a bit about the difference, but I think this version will have quite an effect on people. They will realise the file sizes are huge, they're not good all-in-one solutions like an A6500, and most importantly that RAW won't make them a better cinematographer. I've looked at RAW RED footage before and been surprised and disappointed because it wasn't magical. I think the Ferrari is a good analogy, except if the analogy was that people were trying to take it off-road. It can do it, but it's really not the best tool for the job.

Which bits Jon? I've said a few things In terms of me moving away from AF, it's a complete change in philosophy. I'm moving from wanting a camera to record whatever shots I can see (and therefore being really flexible), to having a camera that I love the images of and then just accepting that it won't capture everything I want. In that sense, I think I want manual primes, and potentially vintage ones. Once I switched philosophies in my head I worked out what that setup would look like and it makes sense that approaching my work in a different way would mean the equipment would be quite different too. I shot a few videos testing various elements of the setup and concluded that MF is fine if I get good focus assists. I shoot in MF for my kids sports games anyway so I'm kind of used to it. You don't need anything - just put a lens on it and go. Sure, the battery doesn't last long, but it lasts long enough for some people. If you want longer battery life then put on a V-Mount, and if you put it at the back then add an external screen too. Rig it as large as you like, then it's like a normal cinema camera. My point is that if you get the brain of a real cinema camera then you can't even put a lens on it, let alone record any footage. This is both a "pocket" camera AND a cinema camera. Most cameras this size aren't good cinema cameras rigged up, and no cinema camera is this size. They've designed it for both and everyone is moaning that it's not perfect. It's not perfect - neither is any other camera. I agree that a hinge on the screen would have been nicer. But for a cinema camera, it's a bonus they gave us a screen at all.

Totally agree. I think I worded that part of my post badly.. I should have separated the two points, that Caleb said the RED was a mistake for a number of reasons, and that MY interpretation of those reasons applied to the P4K. Like @Mattias Burling said - this is a cinema camera. If you accept that it's a cinema camera then it needs to be understood in that context. Including the size... for a cinema camera it may as well be called the Black Magic Microscopic Cinema Camera! It's another effect of convergence of technology. People who are part of the DSLR revolution don't understand how cinema cameras work (thus the complaining about the battery life, screen, file sizes, AF, etc) and so they compare it to cameras of the same price or physical size. Just like you wouldn't do any serious overall comparison between a $1000 iPhone camera and a $1000 DSLR because they're the same price (what do you mean the camera can't make phone calls???), or a 5D with a film camera because they're the same shape (why doesn't the 5D take Ektar???), comparing the P4K with A7III GH5 etc also makes no sense because they're built for completely different things. I wonder how people see the screen on the back of their real cinema cameras?

That's a good point, and also explains why some footage looks ok and other things don't. Assuming you shoot with a 180 degree shutter then people running will be a lot easier to compress in HFR, but if you're shooting a waterfall then it's the opposite - the 180 shutter will blur the water droplets in normal speed but in HFR many more droplets are visible because they're moving a lot slower during each exposure, and so there's heaps and heaps of fine detail to fit into the bit-rate. I guess the moral of the story is that consumer cameras are ok to film your cat in slow motion, but if you're travelling and want to film the town waterfall then it's got to be a cinema camera recording RAW ???

I'm downloading it. If anyone has any questions or requests for things I can (quickly / easily) do in Resolve, just ask A three minute film is a good length.. just edit in-camera like first year of film-school and you'll be set!