Mark Romero 2

I am guessing that the original author @GURN is hoping for an ETA on version 5 of the EOSHD Pro Color for Sony a7S III.

Although I agree with others that it would be difficult to make the OP's post more vague than it already is.

52 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Thanks for clarifying. My friend is going through a nightmare right now because Russian trolls have filed takedown notices on a documentary he self funded. They'll falsely claim a clip is being used illegally, which pulls down his video for the 30 or whatever days they have to file legal actions after he refutes it. Then when the video is finally restored another troll will do it all over again. It has happened 3 times so far, all because it documents Russian atrocities in Syria. It has made it pretty much impossible for him to recoup the tens of thousands of dollars he spent making it and he has no recourse other than going through YouTube's process since he's not an outlet like VICE that can reach out to YouTube easily and put an end to it. 

Yikes!!! That is scary.

Unfortunately, there probably won't be an easy solution any time soon.

Just to update this last conversation with @Jimmy G regarding CFExpress / XQD card:

In a recent interview on a well-known photography forum, Yosuke Yamane, director of Panasonic's Imaging Division, he mentioned that the heat buildup of the CFexpress can cause thermal issues when shooting video. He also mentioned that Panasonic expects there will be improvements in writing to CFexpress that will reduce heat buildup (and then allow for additional internal recoding options).

So maybe the GH6 will get a CFexpress / XQD slot???

6 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

I am primarily a stills shooter and everything writes just fine to my ProGrade SD XCII V90 Read/Write 300/250MB/s cards with zero buffer issues and zero lag and zero lost frames while shooting stills, and the card-to-computer upload times are simply fabulous.

I shoot my video files to the XQD/CFExpress slot and the R/W 1700/1500MB/s is simply overkill and an unnecessary added expense (both for it adding to the camera's upfront cost/price and for the media to feed it) for that need.

Heck, the S1 doesn't even have 400MB/s All-I (and doesn't look to be ever getting it)...which, FWIW, had been my Firmware Update "sprinter" hope for that slot when I purchased the camera (heck, I even thought that maybe they'd be surprising us with 600MB/s All-I. Ha!)...but, alas, it'll still be a "trotter" at 200MB/s LongGOP with the upcoming v.2.0 FW update.

Am I feeling little burned from the experience? You bet.

As an early adopter, having bought my first S1 prior to the (at the time) promised SFU2 Log Update, I was encouraged by what Panasonic had constructed...solid build, weather sealing, fabulous high-ISO performance, great layout, fantastic EVF, tons of functionality aaand high-speed media slots...and the promise of what the camera could/would be when they hopefully?/eventually? unleashed the capabilities of those high-speed slots.

To use a car analogy, when it comes to speed "this thing was built to burn rubber", however, at the end of the day "it's still only a highway driver", all of this, IMHO. 🙂

jim

Sure, I can understand your feelings. It would be great if they can find a way to make use of the XQD slot.

One thing is they may not have appreciated at the time of designing the camera was the heat generated by the XQD/CFExpress slot and media. Matt Frazer alluded to that in the recent Lumix Live video about the S1 / S5 / S1H updates.

It seems like they at panasonic / lumix are really afraid of having overheating issues.

Or maybe they are just really afraid of eating in to S1H sales???

GOING OFF TOPIC (SORT OF):

I have to admit that one of the the things that sold me on the Sony a6500 was a couple of tests by Max Yuryev and a test by Kai and what'shisface on Digital Rev where they demonstrated that there was a LOT more detail (acutance???) in the 4K a6500 image than in a lot of similar cameras shooting in 4K. I think on digital Rev they compared the a6500 to the a7S II in 4K, which has bigger pixels, but isn't supersampled from 6K sensor readout to 4K recording the way the 24MP sensor of the a6500 is.

So aside from the rolling shutter, is super sampling 4K from 6K (or, conversely, supersampling 1080p from 4K) the way to go??? If I recall correctly, doesn't the FX 9 have a 6K sensor that supersamples for 4K recording??? 

The other thing is dynamic range for mirrorless cameras and cinema cameras that DON'T have the 16-bit digital to analog converter that Arri cameras have. Don't cameras with MORE megapixels have generally better dynamic range (while cameras with LESS but larger megapixels have better low light)?

It seems that way for RAW STILLS but don't know if that holds true for video when the codecs are the same. 

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

I can try to upwrap this portion of the video for you. Regardless of how much compression was used, his point was to show that, even with a 4k or 8k image, compression plays a significant role in the final image. Just increasing the megapixels isn't enough and would decrease the quality, not increase it. Concretely, a 4k image compressed to 10mbps will not produce a better image than a 1080p image at 10mbps. His point was to show resolution doesn't necessarily mean a quality image; there are many factors, compression being one of them.

IMO, the issue of Long GOP and ALL-I is mute with modern encoders, but, if looking for a formula, 50mbps long-gop is equal to 100mbps ALL-I. You'll get significant space savings and 99% the quality in most situations. I cannot comment on working with Raw... I'd never do that for my purposes.

Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated.

Another question if I may:

My understanding is that h.264 and h.265 have a 1:2 relationship, meaning that h.264 at 100Mbs is equal to h.265 at 50Mbs.

But do we know if either one is better (or has less artifacts)? Or is it pretty much more or less the same? 

Or do I have my numbers mixed up?

Regarding Compression Question I asked Above ^:

It starts at the 38:16 mark of the Part 2 video.

I guess what he is doing is trying to emulate what a highly compressed codec does when applied to a UHD or above resolution (spoiler alert: it leads to banding).

It was difficult to understand because 1) I have no idea how nuke works, and 2) he wasn't really explaining what he was trying to show (just showing it "with compression" as well as "without compression").

At least I guess that is what he is trying to show.

I don't know whether those compression artifacts are also caused by using Long GOP as opposed to All-I compression, or whether it is just a matter of bitrate and / or bit depth.

So would using a "consumer camera" like an S1 but recording externally in ProRes HQ or DNxHR HQX avoid that compression?

Or does one have to export RAW to avoid the compression artifacts?  

Could someone explain to me the "compression" issue that was covered in part 2 of the video??? The part which showed all the macro blocking?

What was causing the compression that he brought up? It wasn't just simple down-scaling from 4K (or 6K) in to 1080p, was it??? 

I admit I was having a hard time staying awake during the second one because I started watching around midnight. And much of what was been shown was going over my head.

there was one section though on the effects of "compression" that showed off some serious macroblocking. This seemed - to me at least - to be one of the most serious problems.

I tried re-watching that segment but couldn't figure out what was causing the compression issue. Again, I was kind of struggling to stay awake and got frustrated with trying to find the exact part in the video where he covered the part on compression (and macro-blocking).

On 3/26/2021 at 8:59 AM, Jimmy G said:

Well, after watching yesterday's LUMIX Cameras YT channel live stream [link] covering the upcoming S-Sries FW updates I'm still not seeing the reason for XQD/CFExpress B in the S1.

Primarily for stills shooters. Unload the buffer faster and also would be able to download from card to computer faster.

22 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

The other link is trash. Best to download the file instead of playing it, as my upload bandwidth is severely limited. Let's see if you can tell where the quality takes a dump, and that is where I went from shooting from H.264 to H.265.

https://www.myqnapcloud.com/smartshare/6g774717np2m262q22u220y2_6CkDTsX

Password: NOLIES

 

OK, so I downloaded and watched. It is hard to say a particular scene has a difference in quality, but it sure seems softer when you punch in. So a scene might start wide but when it is zoomed in / cropped in, it seems softer.

Am I missing something??? I don't have the best eyesight.

9 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

Link is valid for 72 hours, and the file size is 700MB. Music video has a NSFW due to language.

I'm on it. Thanks!!!

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

The other link is trash. Best to download the file instead of playing it, as my upload bandwidth is severely limited. Let's see if you can tell where the quality takes a dump, and that is where I went from shooting from H.264 to H.265.

https://www.myqnapcloud.com/smartshare/6g774717np2m262q22u220y2_6CkDTsX

Password: NOLIES

 

Thanks!!! Gonna download it overnight because AT&T bandwidth is VERY slow!!!

On 3/23/2021 at 2:41 AM, Lux Shots said:

I recorded a music video for a client that had a mixture of 4K 24p H.264 and 4K 60p H.265 captures. I though I missed a focus pull or that something was wrong with my S1H when I looked at the clips side by side in the edit. The 4K 60p is so much softer, but if the whole video was shot in H.265, I might have missed it.

Would love to see the video.

Agree with @MrSMW above. The 24-105 f/4 is a great stills lens but is a bit on the clinical side for video. 

So there (to me) are two issues;

The pulsing (as @scotchtape brings up and demonstrates), which to me isn't quite as bothersome as the focus breathing, which @Trek of Joy brings up.

Of the two, the focus breathing when using a wide aperture with a more animated on-screen talent is more annoying. 

As for the pulsing, even in the magnified examples above, I don't really notice it that much (yes, even zoomed in and with a big red arrow pointing at it, I guess I just didn't notice that much).

QUESTION: Would putting the LAVs under the clothing of the talent help cut down on reverb / phase issues?

Thank you for the real-world report, @scotchtape So I guess it wasn't possible to have the on-screen talent constantly jumping in and out of the frame the way all those wonderful AF testers on youtube do? That seems to be where Sony excels at autofocus.

The focus breathing is one of the things that gets me less excited about Sony AF, and the lack of focus breathing in Panasonic lenses has me happier about owing a couple of Lumix bodies.

I know I won't be able to do the super shallow DOF thing (but those lenses are pretty much out of my price range anyway). 

Some situations the AF is good enough on the S series of cameras. Sometimes you just have to go manual I guess. And yes, I have experienced the thrill of having my S1 or S5 focus drift off in to the heavens never knowing where the focus point will land again. 

6 hours ago, Robert Patts said:

 

 

I had the same problem when comparing the camera to my P4k. Even if sent at the exact white balance, the S5 had much different skin tones and had to have the tint/temp corrected.

Which leads me to the conclusion of this camera (Compared to the P4K)

S5 is a great camera that produces very sharp, clean images. Despite being shot in VLOG (With NR + Sharpness set to 0)  and with a Contax Zeiss 28mm, I still had to add blur to the footage to soften it a bit. At high ISO the grain is very fine, and pleasing. In the right settings it can produce a great image (Which can be said about a most cameras). IBIS is a plus. Huge plus. The 10bit codec holds up well, and I have no problem applying a grade via Dehancer. The LongGOP codec is not fun to work with, but then again nothing will edit as smooth as Prores/Braw.

So why did I return it. I feel something in the image is off. If you shoot a landscape / overview / nature, everything looks great. But as soon as you ad a person to the scene, something does not sit well. It is hard to explain. It has this look I am not a fan of, and I feel the motion is off. (I shoot at 25p and 180 shutter degree) Sunlight the camera is amazing. As are many. But as soon as you throw it in an uncontrolled light setting, it does retain the same nice look as the Blackmagic does.

The footage in the right settings looks great. But requires more massaging to get the look I want color wise.  

In the end I will be sticking with my P4K and will go down in a blaze of unstable shaky footage. 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have to admit; I haven't had much of a chance this last year to shoot anything with skin tones (since I shoot real estate mostly), so I am probably not seeing the differences that you notice between the V-LOG and BRAW. 

Maybe you could link to a shot you have done recently on the 4K with skin tones in it? I only ask because there seems to be a lot of REALLY BAD sample footage out there shot in BRAW on the 4K and 6K cameras. I had been really contemplating getting a 6K for BRAW (since I edit in Resolve and have zero interest in going ProRes RAW). But a lot of the sample footage I had seen on the internets just looked bad. Maybe it was just the people who were posting it didn't know how to grade.

Also, maybe inadvertently, you bring up another point: while the Panasonic lenses are great for VIDEO, they might be too sharp for FILMING, if you know what I mean. I love the parfocal, minimal breathing, and linear focus of the 24-105 f/4. and for photos, I love the rendering and sharpness, and the 1:2 macro.  But most certainly I am going to have to invest in some sort of diffusion for that lens as I hope to take on more projects involving people.

I know people were bringing up the particular excess red in Panasonic V-LOG.

One thing I do in Resolve is put a node near the end of the node tree that I turn off channel 2 (green) and channel 3 (blue). This means it only effects the Red channel. (Leave color space for the node as RGB)

Then if the red is too much, I bring it down a touch in the color boost or in the saturation (in control wheels palette). If you like working with curves, you could use the Y curve (since it is only affecting red channel, pulling down the Y curve will reduce only the red).

The HSL levels won't work quite as you expect, but sat vs sat and sat vs luminesce should.

It's quick and dirty but works pretty well. 

On 3/3/2021 at 6:52 AM, DanielVranic said:

After reading through, it seems like if there was a S5 that existed that had RAW output and a significantly improved AF that would be my ticket. Maybe a MK2.

True, The AF is not dependable, but I am not personally convinced that you will be getting that much of an improvement shooting in RAW over the internal 10-Bit V-LOG codec.  Pretty much all the tests I have seen seem to show only minor improvements. 

It's a really good codec and in Resolve 17, just use DaVinci Wide Gamut and the HDR grading tools and you've got a ton of flexibility. 

As for autofocus...

On 3/2/2021 at 6:01 AM, DanielVranic said:

I unfortunately have never done a shoot with the budget for a 1st AC. So audio, all cameras, lighting is typically 100% me. This is a small-ish town in the midwest so there is not much to choose from.

Is the amount of money you get from these gigs really enough to justify a major equipment upgrade??? 

Are you getting paid enough that the clients really expect great color grading?

What made you decide that your a6500 and X-T3 weren't good enough? Was it something a paying client said to you? Or was it something you read on a forum somewhere?

If you still have the a6500 try looking up extrashot on youtube for his s-cinetone setting for the a7 III (not the a7S III, just the a7 III) and see if they might work well for the a6500. Yeah, the color science of the a6500 is different than that of the a7 III but I think it would get you in the ballpark. Otherwise, use cine 4 or just use the Portrait creative style with contrast, saturation and sharpness turned down.

20 minutes ago, sandro said:

Sorry if my question wasn't clear.
Considering the price of the L-mount native lenses I was wondering if I could get away with cheaper Canon/Nikon mount lenses + adapter to keep the costs down.

Apparently this should be possible but with many limitations. Even the Sigma adapter has a limited selection of lenses compatible.

I have a Tokina 11-16 ATX PRO Nikon F mount, I can forget about using AF-S with the S5?

Sorry, tried to delete my post but couldn't.

Fotodiox makes a cheaper, fully manual adapter for Nikon F mount lenses that has a built in aperture ring for G-Series lenses (those lenses without an aperture ring).

Just a follow up to using my S5 with side flippy screen on my weebill S...

It seems to work fine for the most part.

If you keep the weebill S UPRIGHT (not in the underslung mode) and you don't have any added handles to the side, you should be fine.

If you have a side handle attached and either lean the weebill s too far forward or go in to underslung mode, you could potentially cause it to bang in to the attached side handle (I have my side handle on the left side of the weebill s). 

However, that would really only be a problem in either pan follow or pov or maybe the go modes. If you use lock mode like I do 99% of the time, then it isn't really a problem.

Not a surprise, the S5 is MUCH easier to use on a gimbal than the S1. 

Unfortunately for someone like me who shoots real estate, I have found 10-bit LOG to be really useful 🙂

When you are trying to capture a dark bedroom with a beautiful, sunny view of the Pacific Ocean, that extra dynamic range comes in handy.

And the color casts from mixed lighting are a lot easier to deal with in 10-bit footage. I mean, people are paying stagers $8,000 to $12,000 to have furniture brought in for the photos and videos, and the stagers are putting in bulbs of different color temperatures in the same small room 😞 

8 minutes ago, LloydPDX said:

True observations about gear lifetimes, I think. Good mics can last a career, and beyond, as can lenses. My 2008-released Panasonic HPX170, bought used, has great features and taught me lots about video. As problematic as the sensor limitations/ image quality look now, I’m loathe to sell it. But I won’t use it for any client work, so it’s time to move to better image quality with good features, on a used, new-to-me camera. Which I’ll probably squeeze every last pixel out of, too.

I agree with what you are saying, but if you are going to be doing client work, then there comes a point where you need to look at the gear and say, "Can I either 1) make more money, or 2) spend more time with my loved ones" with this new gear.