BTM_Pix

Its a grand here mate. Just in pounds rather than dollars It should be a couple of hundred above the still available FZ1000 I think though. So about £750 here. Maybe I should go in to another store and surreptitiously cripple one with dodgy commands and offer to take it off their hands for cheap !

I think you've done the right thing irrespective of the specs. If you've lost your mojo a bit for getting out and shooting then if something different gives you a bit of impetus to re-ignite that (if only to show that its not a mad decision as lot of people on here seem to think it is ) then its worth it. I'm not saying you have but just a guess and apologies if its out of line. It'll make great images anyway, they all do these days but only if we get out there and do it. And if this aids that process then job done and purchase justified as far as I'm concerned.

They might as well be in gif format for all the use they are on the other cameras unfortunately. That FZ2000 has definitely batted its eyelashes at me though

Yes, the extended modes are only available in cameras such as the FZ2000 that support them 'properly' as it where but there does seem to be some sort of ability for the cameras to interpret the command and have a go at making it happen ! Its frustrating in that I have had it in that mode that you are describing once where it did a runaway recording that needed a battery pull. What I've experienced a few times (including just now doing a re-test) is that it won't always switch into the mov mode which supports what I was saying about people needing to do matrix testing to find out which state the camera must be in before it will switch. It will actually show you MOV mode when you go into the menu when you manage to get it into this mode but it will need a lot of testing to determine which mode you had to be in before that to allow it to happen. Recordings I've made with it in this mode, exhibit the same issues as the other modes people are attempting to wake up and produces corrupt files. However, what I've found when I've been in this mode (aside from that one time) is that the recording can be stopped on the camera. It might (and I stress might) be the case that when its in the runaway state that it might actually be doing what we want it to and recording the higher bitrate video. If you or anyone else gets it in that mode again, make sure you are doing it whilst the wifi is connected and that way it might still respond to incoming remote commands. So, the test would be to get it into the MOV mode, press record on the camera, if it doesn't stop when you press record on the camera then give it this command through the browser. http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=camcmd&value=video_recstop

OK, a bit of an update.... As I'm still in the UK, I was able to go and visit the camera shop where I've bought a bit of kit over the past few years. Because they know what my day job is they were virtually rushing to get a Sony A9 out of the cabinet as soon as I walked in so were a bit dismayed that all I wanted was to have 10 minutes with an FZ2000! Anyway, here is the news. I did a couple of test recordings of the 200mbps HD format so I could have a look at the files and compare them with what is coming out of a G7 when its making the corrupt files. I then captured a remote session to look into these MP4(LPCM) modes to see how they were selected from the app. And then something caught my eye in Cinelike settings which I'll come back to in a bit. So I ended up walking out with an example high bitrate file and a surreptitious capture of a remote session to look at the commands when selecting it. And the camera shop ended up with no sale or even a whiff of an interest in the A9. Though they know I'll be back for something at some point! Now I had the correct command I could be sure that we are sending the right one to the G7 (in this case) but we are still in exactly the same boat regarding the corrupted file. Copying the chunk of the real FZ2000 to it will persuade it QuickTime to play a black file of the correct length and VLC is identifying the codec (so I think I've got the right sector) but won't play it. The command is definitely in the "make me a cheeseburger" category as selecting the 200mbps format file will automatically change the camera into the MP4(LPCM) mode so there is no command from within the app to do this as it just happens as a package at the camera end. As the other cameras don't have that option then we are definitely in the territory of just prodding it with a stick to see if there is a fluke combination of formats to switch between that will make it do this combination internally. The bottom line with that is that I'm going to have to throw it back out there for everyone else to pick up their own sticks and prod their cameras for this one as I need to be getting on with the other thing. And being a bit selfish about this, its a bit of a diminishing return for me effort wise as I'd sooner plug it into a second hand ninja star to get edit ready prores if I was looking to up the HD quality for me. Or actually even chop in my FZ1000 against an FZ2000 if they come down in price a bit as it is a seductive camera with features like that, the NDs and the VLOG option. ///EDIT The FZ2000 files are NOT playable in the G7 so I think this might be a big clue as to this hunt ultimately not bearing any fruit ////// OK, sad part over, what about what caught my eye? Well, the FZ2000 has an additional control in Cinelike D for shifting the colour tone of the whole image. It has a plus and minus control which shifts to violet/magenta and yellow/green respectively. And this is independent of the white balance. Now, I think that is a very interesting little function that people could be able to manipulate to create some profiles that are more akin to other manufacturers favoured tones? And when I say that the FZ2000 has got that Hue function, what I of course mean is that now we've all got it Big caveat here is that I have only tried this on the G7 as thats all that I've got to hand at the moment but it should work on the others too but please test it and let everyone know if it does or not for your camera. Updated html file attached to enable it and I've used values that will get it going for you but please make your own experiments by just editing the last number in the command to shift it in the direction you want. I have no idea what the range is so I've set it at 5 either way so you can see the effect but tweak away until you find the end points! Enjoy and please report back if it works for your camera so everyone can share the results. DEPLOY CINELIKE D AND V WITH HUE.html

Looking at the user manual online for the FZ2000/2500, it refers to being able to switch the recording mode in the video menu between AVCHD,MP4,MP4(LPCM) and MOV ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/camera/om/dmc-fz2500_en_adv_om.pdf It describes MP4(LPCM) as the "data format for image editing" and it is this mode that needs to be selected on the camera to use the 200mps All-I formats etc. So with them calling them Editing formats, thats the mystery of what the "ed" in those mp4ed_**** ones means. Now, the GX85 doesn't have that selectable in its menu so I need to do a session with an FZ2000 to see if its selectable via the app. But I haven't got that camera so will have to try and blag a demo of one to do it. Still won't get us anywhere if the camera doesn't want to play though. As I keep saying, all we are doing is telling it to do something like "make me a cheeseburger" which is fine but we are relying on the camera understanding what a cheeseburger is and having the raw ingredients to put it together itself. We can't with this method get down into that component ingredient level.

If you look at the corrupted files in VLC there is no codec information. I've just taken an example HD file off the G7 and a corrupted 200mps one and compared them in a hex editor and copied the section that I suspect holds the codec identifiers into the corrupted file. This then displays the codec as expected when you open the corrupted file in VLC. It still doesn't play any video but will open in QuickTime and play black for the correct length. The file sizes it creates are relative to each other (i.e. a 10 second clip will be twice the size of a 5 second clip) but they're not the size you'd expect to see versus the 50mps 'real' files which should of course be much smaller but are actually only about 20% smaller. So there is something there but it would take a lot more work to get to the bottom of it and then if it is related to the headers then it would also need a conversion app to correct before you could use the files and of course they would not be playable in camera. Thats a lot of ifs and a lot of graft.

Its part of the feature as far as Panasonic are concerned so you can get quickly back to a known setting including white balance. A lot of people would use it specifically for that to be honest, maybe have a higher ISO and tungsten balance for indoors and then quickly revert to a lower ISO and a daylight balance when they go outdoors. Fuji handle it slightly differently in that you have your C settings but with a different 'active' one for want of a better description if you made any changes which persists when you turn the camera off whereas Panasonic always recalls it exactly from the C setting even when you turn the mode dial and come back. What I recommend for GX80 to make the Cinelike D/V in camera switchable is to save it to C1 with a jumping off point of ISO and WB and so on and do the same with a standard profile to C2. And then use C3 to save the changes you've made to whichever of those basic profiles you're currently working on so they persist when the camera is switched off. So it would be like this : 1) Save Cinelike D with 1/50th, AWB, ISO200, 4k24p into C1 2) Save Standard with 1/50th, AWB, ISO200, 4k24p into C2 3) Start camera and choose C1 or C2 4) Make changes to your WB, ISO and file format that you need for this specific session. 5) Save to C3 Now when you switch the camera off it will come back with the settings of C3 (i.e. your currently edited version of your primary profile) and will also do so when you change modes. You can use exactly this same approach on your G7 to enjoy the benefits of the Custom settings but preventing that WB issue happening again.

Yes. There is definitely more to comes in terms of applying the processes to enhance the usability of all of the small Panasonic cameras that can be app controlled (which is where I originally came in with this!) than in unlocking additional rates and so on. What I would like to spend a bit of additional time on though is trying to get it working on the LX100. I think there is something in there with that and it would be very useful on that camera. Ditto the travel cameras. With regard to the bitrate stuff, I'll knock something up that will make it easy to do a matrix test as I think the behaviour changes when switching to the usually non-supported ones depending on which one you are currently set to. So there might be a combination that works. Vlog? Mmm....I think I'm pretty confident that it won't work. I believe after looking at some logs I've received that I'm sending it the correct command but its no go. Though as you say, hopefully everyone has the tools they need to poke around with this themselves now on different cameras so maybe someone can find the solution themselves.

Depending on your Android phone, some of them have a pop up warning when whatver its connected to via WiFi (the camera in this case) doesn't have an Internet connection. It then drops that connection (usually for something in range that does have internet) if you don't confirm quite quickly that it's OK. The pop up sometimes doesnt get to the front of the screen though depending on whats happening on other running apps. Might be that but might not but no there is no fundamental difference why it wouldn't work on a phone. Unless you've got the Panasonic App open at the same time which will stop a simultaneous browser connection.

This sounds like what it does with the LX100. If I work out what causes it on that then the solution should work for both. Unfortunately if it is what I suspect it is then it unlikely I'll be able to offer a solution.

Some not all cover it. JVC use their variable scale mapping system to cover it. Their default is 85% but in practical terms most people have it set to 90+. The advantage is the small form factor of the lenses and weight to give you the option of something more compact. Plus the 1080p and 2k high frame rate stuff isn't an issue for them at all. The AF is another area as there are now plenty of EF to MFT adapters that support AF and IS both speedboosted and not as well as things like the Apurture EF-MFT which also adds electronic follow focus. So there are plenty of options there but yeah it all comes down to who they're targeting and how much those people are inclined to rely on 3rd party adapters etc. Although having said that there are roughly half a dozen FS5/7s in my general vicinity as I'm stood writing this who are shooting with L series Canon glass so the answer to that would be they don't mind ! The MFT mount is associated with consumer stuff though so I imagine there would be a different resistance to that.

I was thinking more FS5 and C200 (though if it is at the 8000€ mark then the FS7 even with external interface and recorder isn't that far off) but completely take the point. Ditto the mount as well actually. I'm viewing this from underneath rather than above I suppose. Cheap varicam rather than what was expected it might be which was an upscale lensless version of the DVX200. I still think the LS300 has shown that the Super35 sensor with MFT is a viable proposition but as its been a commercial failure then no one would be using it as a blueprint for success! They could have had the Super35 sensor and the MFT mount though. But as my reply above its probably not what the market they want it to be in wants is to have so I've completely misunderstood where they were going with it. I remember how gutted I was when BM released the MFT version of the BMCC and how much of a more flexible solution it offered versus my EF mount version so I'm still bitter !!

The price has surprised me to be honest. CVP are saying it will be 'under 8000 Euros', which will be an ex-VAT price. Thought it was more likely be a bit above the BM Ursa Mini Pro level and certainly not to be more than the new Canon. Its not that its particularly wildly expensive for what it does but I just thought they'd be more aggressive. Sony and Canon are the safe bets for most people in that price bracket so I'd have thought if you were going to take them on it would make sense to at the very least be a few quid cheaper rather than more expensive. Seems to me that someone looking to take a chance and go another way from Sony and Canon would be more tempted by the Ursa Mini Pro now? The other surprise is the mount. I just don't get the mount choice when you are an actual manufacturer of a wide range of MFT lenses and the users that you want to bring up to this new level of camera all own those lenses and all of the adapters to convert anything to that mount, why would you NOT put that mount on it? JVC have already shown what a great combination the Super35 sensor with the MFT mount is. (By the by, JVC actually got their firmware update out a day late this week but I haven't had chance to put it on yet.) I just do not understand it having an EF mount as a real benefit to anyone other than, erm, Canon. Who will now win whichever of these two cameras that you choose.

Thanks for this, I'll get on to it when I get back next week.

Yeah, it works exactly the same and same file for both. EDIT - Sorry, I meant the same html file for both to implement it. It needs two Custom settings on the camera available if you want to switch in camera between Cinelike D and the other profiles. GX80/85 have three available so still one spare for a more photography based or black and white configuration or whatever.

What sort of feedback mate?

It needs to be on a camera, if you've still got a GH4? If you can get it on to a camera then if you then connect to it with the cinelike D html file and send it the commands as per my posts further up to get what it sends back that would be a big benefit.

Its about having both ends of the conversation. Posing as the camera with the App that had the flaw in it should theoretically populate the menus in the App and from there we can capture the exact command sent back to the GH4 when changing to Vlog from Vivid for example. There is a bit more to it in terms of convincing the App its talking to a camera though as there is a heartbeat sent every second to the camera that the camera returns an OK to to let the App know its still connected. That means that will most likely have to be replicated programmatically rather than just being put in an html page. Although depending on how long the App can allow for the return to the heartbeat before terminating I don't know. It might be long enough to enable it to just be a simple manual button on an html page. I'm just waiting on a GH4 session output file to be sent to me before I can look at it but I can do the camera simulator based on a G7 to experiment in the meantime but I can't look at it until next week. Even if I get this simulator going though, please don't build your hopes up over getting vlog on the GX85 or the other cameras. As is already evident from the file format changes etc, its one thing getting the correct command to the camera but quite another for it to do anything with it.

What capture mode was it in when you sent the command? On one single occasion I got it into that condition and it did a runaway recording that wrote no file data after I had to stop of with a battery pull. I've found you can switch it to mov and it will record corrupted files. All other attempts switch it to 4k24p and the files are recorded with that metadata. Though as I reported earlier with ISO50000 it doesn't register the right value in the metadata I think there might be something in it reacting differently to the recording format command depending on what format it is currently in. I'd tried both doing it from 1080 and 4k but there might be a combination of the variants that allows it. I can't do much on it right now but it needs a matrix of the settngs with different buttons to quickly but exhaustively test the combinations. A EDIT!!! FFS I've just spotted you are trying this on a G80 and NOT a GX80 No wonder I didn't get the same behaviour! OK, same thing applies with the matrix to test the permutations Closest relative I've got of it is the G7 I'll check it when I have some time

All you need now is the correct rev of the GH4 Unless of course we did this the other way round and I could fool that Android app into thinking that thats exactly what it was talking to........ Mmmm If anyone has a GH4, if they put up the return from the camera using the Handshake and Connect commands in my html file and then the return from these commands we might possibly maybe sort of almost kind of have a shot : http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=capability and then this command http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=allmenu

The Enable element is purely to tell the smartphone app from the camera which options to show the user so, yes, in virtually all cases it means the camera will only action return commands that match its enabled list. Its use for this purpose is to be able to collect the (usually) type and value parameters for the setsetting function. As I said earlier in the thread, you should see that that particular command you sent did actually have an effect of sorts in that it will have put the camera into 4k24p mode as unless it is a rate based on a different region (i.e. you'd sent mp4ed_30p_200mbps) then it will accept them but revert to its uppermost setting. Vlog is unlikely but, again, if you got hold of a rev 2.2 or 2.3 GH4 and found that particular Android version of the ImageApp that enabled Vlog to be activated for 'free' then you could packet capture a session between the two to see exactly what the command was. I don't know anyone with that rev of GH4 but if you do then the version of the ImageApp you'd need is floating around on some dropbox links if you google hard enough for it. But my suspicion is that because the GX80 etc post date Panasonic closing that loophole in both the camera and the ImageApp then it wouldn't work anyway. The long shot would be it possibly working on an LX100 but considering what that does when it receives the Cinelike D command its far from certain it would work properly.

Sorry I was writing a big reply when you posted that so completely missed it Nice one That's a TZ100 in the UK isn't it?

Just been asked to leave John Lewis midway through hacking their LX15. Was able to handshake it and fake the connection but they pounced as I was about to hit Deploy! I'd already set the alarm off doing their GX800. Status on that was that it took the Deploy command without error but called up the Standard profile.However, the lighting in their was so poor and I had to be so quick that I wasn't able to do full compares to the real Standard profile to see if it was actually Cinelike D. So file that one under potentially possibly maybe until I have another opportunity. I'm intrigued by getting it on to their small cameras, particularly the travel zoom ones.

Absolutely not, no. But having seen them both in motion when I have been doing it (other quick tests trying different stuff not static charts) I can definitely say there was nothing different going on to my eye. I'm away doing this assignment so I have Peli cases full of Nikon and Fuji's rather than Panasonics but I'll definitely do an A/B when I get home next week. I'll put it through Film Converts Cinelike D profiles as well to check it end to end.