Trek of Joy

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

You're the one being defensive, man. I chose not to respond to you because there wasn't any reasoning with you, and you wouldn't concede anything so what's the point? Maybe when multiple people notice something about you there's something to it even if you can't see it? I don't know.

Bless your heart.

38 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

You see it a bit with Canon too, though I do agree that Sony has supplanted Canon when it comes to people defending them no matter what. 

I feel so seen. My entire identity is based on the name printed on my camera. How insightful LOL! 

Meanwhile Canon unleashed its lawyers to crush all 3rd party lenses. And Sony is the big corporate devil because Samyang needs to update its firmware. You just can't make this shit up. Keep jousting at those windmills.

Common sense isn't very common these days, especially on the internet.

Cheers

5 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I never said it was widespread issue, I just said it sucked that those people who only have samyang or the sigma aps-c lens with a6700 are fucked unless they buy sony lens or that 18-50mm in the mean time.

And yeah it is a shocker that Sony rather send their camera to youtubers than 3rd party lens manufacturers, so there you go about Sony and 3rd party relationship, Sony doesnt give an arse about them.

It's a new body, even Sony lenses need FW updates, don't you get that? Have you ever updated FW on your lenses? Lots of new camera releases have a lens FW update to optimize its functionality. There are tons of YouTube videos with 3rd party lenses on the a6700, this discussion is silly, the 18-50 clearly isn't the only lens that works with the body.

I'm out.

Chris

6 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I just dont know why people feel offended if their favourite brand is under attack, a fault is a fault. There are people with problems with some combination of lens and sony camera and that is a fact

It's more than just one user have problem with one lens, the more you trying to argue it just make you look the same as those sony shell on youtube lol. Like any fault you just brush it off as non issue, but unfortunately its is a problem for some people, but not me since I only use Sony lens on my Sony camera.

 

I'm not offended at all, my camera is just a tool to get the job done. I'm not brushing it off as a non issue, I said more than likely the lens needs a FW update, like lots of lenses need when a new body is released. But claiming its widespread simply isn't true.

I mean here's a quote from a DPreview post about Samyang.

"I wrote to Samyang support and they wrote back that they want to analyze it as soon as they get an A6700 delivered. However a firmware fix could take month before it will be fixed."

Shocker, needs a FW update. And they don't even have a camera to test it. LOL!

Chris

Chris

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Nothing I said was false and nothing you said proves otherwise. Sony is putting out features like breathing compensation that only work with Sony lenses. It requires specific communication between the lens and the camera to computate the correction needed. If they wanted to they could work with third party lens manufactures to make it work with them, but they won't because they want people to buy their lenses.

It's not 2016 anymore. Sony now has a large lens lineup and has become a leader in the market. They really don't need to play nice with third party companies anymore, because they really don't need them to boost the system anymore. Bless your heart for giving any of these companies the benefit of the doubt, but my original statement strands: it would not shock me at all to see Sony clamping down on third party lenses in order to try and sell more of their own. And there is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing so, as a few lines of code can make third party AF lenses useless if they so choose. 

 

More nonsense. No camera manufacturer has opened up camera body code to allow others to tinker with it, so yes focus breathing is Sony lens only. Duh. You make it seem like Sony engineers wouldn't have to do massive amounts of extra coding to make focus breathing work with 3rd party lenses, it would take a ton of work, testing and so on. No camera company would do that.

This paranoia about Sony bricking 3rd party lenses is also complete nonsense. The backlash would be massive and they'd be hit with lawsuits from every manufacturer. You could hit them with a class action from every owner of 3rd party glass as well. It's pointless arguing this, the E-mount is open and has been since 2011 - that's a fact, your tinfoil hat theory is nothing but hyperbole.

Enjoy your camera. 

Chris

12 hours ago, ntblowz said:

That is the point

Sigma apsc 1.4 and Samyang 1.8 is pretty popular too, who cares about other obscure lens.

Those lens just don't work for Sony A6700, so sucks to people who only have those lens to find out they can't use it, that is not a really good user experience if you need it for a trip or shoot only to find out they are not compatible til who knows when Sony or Sigma or Samyang will have new firmware.

But for people have have Sony lens they knew it will work regardless cause it is 100% supported .

That why I laugh at people who think 3rd party is one the main reason for Sony, not for me cause I knew 3rd party will have problems.

This supposed "problem" isn't something that's widespread, and your sky is falling stuff is just silly. OMG, a user has a problem with one lens, there are still hundreds of others that work fine. 

Cheers

Chris

12 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Your point highlight why regardless of 3rd party only Sony lens give you the best support 

When there is new body with Sony lens I don't have to worry about is it gonna have issues whatsoever.a

Hence I still only use Sony lens.

But now the new Sony lens is getting more expensive like Nikon and Canon.

 

That's really not the point since I also said hundreds of lenses work fine with no issues. Some 3rd party lenses have linear focusing motors that match the best Sony has, Tamron is using them in their VXD lenses for example. But I'm mostly Sony as well because there are tons of great deals on used lenses. The newer G's and GM's are just so small and light compared to others like Sigma. I've bought dozens of Sony lenses over the last decade of shooting E-mount, always used, and always much cheaper than new.

Cheers

Chris

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

None of that limits their ability to clamp down moving forward. Nothing can stop companies from making lenses for the mount, but it's absolutely possible for Sony to limit how well those lenses work on Sony bodies. We're already seeing it with Sony developing features like breathing correction that only work with Sony lenses. 

That's mostly false. Breathing comp is an in-camera computational operation like active stabilization and the new reframing. Pretty sure Sony isn't going to pay its engineers to add 3rd party lenses to that capability. Other than TC's and hitting the a1's 30fps with tracking, Sony hasn't restricted AF in any way. The E-mount is open, they don't even charge a licensing fee. Sony does specify there is a license agreement and I'm sure that contains language about features that will be exclusive to Sony, like the TC's and 30fps. If a company is going to commit resources to developing lenses, there's also likely language that says Sony isn't going to suddenly brick their lenses as well. 

Non-functional AF is a product of the lens, not the camera, since there are literally hundreds of lenses without issue. Without knowing all the details from the random game of telephone quoted above, old Samyang lenses have horseshit AF, it wouldn't surprise me if there were AFc issues without an update with some of them. And some may not work well with new bodies period. I had the original orange glow 85/1.4 and it couldn't track anything shooting video - it was useless as an AF lens with video.

Chris

This is going to be my new and much smaller wireless mic/external recording solution, love it.

Rode fixed everything I didn't like about the previous two and made lots of improvements. I really like everything this has to offer, my Sennheiser G2 and G3 lav and handheld systems are finally getting replaced as I'm trying to trim my kit size/weight down and just simplify my workflow. My external recorder is history too. This more than covers all my wireless mic and portable recording needs in one crazy small package.

No need to mess with batteries and SD cards, you can skip the app - plug the charging case into a computer and just drag all the files to your computer, they function as standalone recorders if you're just getting audio, you can use them for streaming or zoom calls, real 32-bit float, auto safety track and so on. 

As for them being shiny, some 1000 grit sandpaper will take the shine off in a few seconds, but I'll use them with lav's or one of the small Rode shotgun mics, so its not an issue for me.

Cheers

Chris

On 8/26/2023 at 10:38 AM, newfoundmass said:

I think we'll start seeing more of this happening with Sony, especially as they start releasing features that require more communication between the lens and the body like needed for breathing compensation, etc. 

It also wouldn't surprise me to see them start to try clamping down on third party lenses now that their lens selection has matured. When they were just trying to get people into the system those third party lenses helped a lot, but now that they've fleshed out their own offerings I imagine they're wanting people to purchase those instead. They aren't making any money when someone buys a Viltrox lens, but they do when someone buys a Sony or Tamron lens. 

Nonsense. Sony isn't clamping down on anything. E-mount protocols are open source - its precisely the reason every 3rd party AF lens maker has E-mount lenses and why there's nothing for the RF and only recently some for X-mount and such. The poor functioning lens likely needs a FW update, much the same way Sony bodies get an incremental update when certain lenses are released or lenses get FW updates when new bodies come out. Newer bodies like the a6700 with the AI functionality will certainly require some lens updates.

Everyone outside of Sony is not openly sharing AF protocols so they have to be reverse engineered. Nikon seems to have something with Tamron and Fuji has allowed Sigma and Viltrox in, but as we know outside of Sony options are severely limited. 

Chris

On 4/29/2023 at 6:00 PM, markr041 said:

Give it up. The fx30 and is not a hybrid. It is a "cinema" camera by Sony's own definition. By eliminating the totally unnecessary mechanical shutter (for video), money is saved, which is why the camera is much cheaper than the fx3. It is not suitable for stills; it is on the cutting-edge for video. That is the definition of non-hybrid. 

The fx30 has timecode, 4K DCI, 24.0 fps, tally lights, and special lcd viewing configurations for video. Same features as the fx3, which is approved by Netflix for cinema. And none of the a7 cameras are, because they lack essential features for video. Note that the fx3 does not have shutter angle or ND's - shutter angle is hardly an essential cinema feature unless one is incapable of dividing by 2; it seems that built-in ND's and IBIS do not work together - I prefer IBIS. I would love to have the electronic ND. 

Hybrid is another word for compromise. The a7 cameras are crippled for video; the fx30 is crippled for stills. So, guess which one I choose for video?

I do not understand why you have the need to dump on the fx30. The a7 cameras are crippled for video, no doubt. I feel your pain you did not get video-centric upgrades. So you take out your disappointment and envy and just plain meanness on the fx30 and those who use it? 

It is just plain nuts to define the fx30 as a hybrid camera and not a cinema camera.

I agree completely that your camera not getting video upgrades is maddening and results from pure selfish greed on the part of Sony. I hate Sony. But that is not going to stop me from pointing out silly logic based on obvious ownership bias, or to stop me from using Sony cameras if they suit my needs better than other cameras (and I have made clear why the fx30 is right for my purpose right now).

 

The FX30 is a crippled hybrid plain and simple, take the FX3 body which is a sunk cost, don't shrink margins by writing code for the photo features and call it a cinema camera. It's comical seeing all the YouTube shills parroting the cinema camera BS, it's just a next gen a6000 with photo features stripped out. It will be funny watching all of them whine about this when the new a6000's are released with all the FX30 video features plus the ability to shoot 15fps or so, bracket and so on.

It doesn't have a 16:9 sensor like the actual cinema cameras, along with a lot of other features. And it doesn't even take advantage of the higher mp photo sensor with 6k or open gate modes - which would actually be very useful. Much like the new ZV "Baby A7sIII" - it's just a marginal revenue product with lazy engineering and some new features for the clickbait thumbnails.

The FX30 is a fine camera. And its a cripple hammer hybrid. 

Cheers

Chris

On 4/29/2023 at 6:01 PM, SRV1981 said:

Chris - do you think there’s a better body and lens system for the quality features and price/size? 
 

a7iv is not an option for me or any similar size camera for travel and walking around etc.  

photo is secondary thought - I’d grab an x100f or something for fun photos or just use and iPhone and VSCO for photos small prints

What's your overall budget? I would say whatever ticks the most boxes while allowing for the best glass. If the a7IV is too big, something like the a7c is quite a bit smaller. I like the x100's, but with so many good, small lenses, I've never been able to warm up to that one. And its capabilities are pretty limited.

Cheers

Chris

4 hours ago, markr041 said:

And I agreed with you that YOUR camera takes better pictures than the fx30. It is a better hybrid camera. Read my post again. I was "simply pointing out" that the fx30 is not a hybrid camera.

My cell phone has better built-in GPS than the fx30. My toaster makes better toast. My TV has a better LCD screen. I prefer apples to oranges. Get it?

Let's stop with the ownership bias already - I have access to an unlimited number of cameras (not IMAX or the ARRI LF). I have shot with scores of cameras that are currently available.

Let's get back to the cameras. Enjoy YOUR camera. It is a great camera.

 

The FX30 is a hybrid, just a heavily crippled one thanks to the exclusion of a mechanical shutter and competent photo modes - something the FX3 has. It's just the next a6000 camera sensor inside the recycled FX3 housing. But since it's so bad at taking photos, Sony will sell you another camera to do that job. With a readout speed superior to the current 24mp sensor, it could - and should - be a really great hybrid body. If it were a cine camera it would have more of the cine tools the FX6/9 have like waveforms, ND's and shutter angle. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

It's all marketing BS and Sony hitting it hard with the cripple hammer.

Cheers

Chris

14 hours ago, markr041 said:

You are correct, the a7iv is a better hybrid camera than the fx30. That is because the fx30 is not a hybrid camera, it is a video camera. It therefore has many features that aid in shooting video that the a7iv does not and never will.

The fx30 and fx30 are perhaps the worst hybrid cameras. So are the ARRI LF, the RED Komodo, the Sony Venice II, the Sony fx9, etc.

And, so you don't get all riled up, the a7iv can take great video, unless of course you want to shoot 4K DCI 24.0P or shoot a Netflix film.

What's the point of this? I'm simply pointing out that if you plan on taking a lot of photos it's a mediocre option. People get so triggered when you point out any negatives about their gear. The rest is just noise.

At least the FX3 has all of the photos capabilities of the a7sIII, so you can shoot bursts and it does have a mechanical shutter. The rest you listed are irrelevant to my comment.

Cheers

Chris

On 4/27/2023 at 9:31 AM, SRV1981 said:

Looks good at 2500 with ambient light, love it!  Still thinking a7iv will make more sense with ability for photo in 1 body

FX30 has no physical shutter and is a single shot only camera. If you need to take photos, it's probably the worst new camera option you can find today. Since its ES only and lacks a stacked sensor like the a9's or a1, it will also be a major PITA indoors when it comes to banding from the light cycles.

I'd go a7IV without hesitation. I have one, it's a really great hybrid.

Chris

Replied twice LOL!

Stuck with the a7sIII and a7IV. May be shifting the a7sIII since I shoot a ton of stills and want a higher mp camera. The XH2s is still tempting, but Fuji's AF is just meh compared to the Sony's. Sometimes my eye wanders to the FX30. My main cam for the last year+ has been the a7IV thanks to its stellar AF. But like everyone, mostly my damn iPhone for everything else.

Chris

The rs3 mini is definitely my next gimbal. Loved thy goofy white crane that came out recently, but Zhiyun is just not as well sorted as DJI. 
 

chris

2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

The difference in lenses is overall build and optical quality. The Panasonic 50mm f1.8 is vastly superior in every way to the Canon or Sony equivalents, especially in build and function. With that said, it would be good for Panasonic to have a $150-200 lens to get people into the system. I like the 40mm f2 or 40mm f2.8 pancake option. 

The Panasonic S5 was recently selling for $1500 in the USA and you got a free 50mm f1.8 or awhile and then they switched it to a free 85mm f1.8. I think they should just keep this pricing permanent. After a year or two of using the S5, those users (hooked now with lenses), will be all about upgrading to the S5 II or S2H or whatever comes next. 

But, like they recently said about "looking forward to the rapid expansion of Lumix systems," they need to expand very quickly and aggressively. PDAF is here, the excitement is up, they are better in almost every way compared to the other brands in terms of IQ, tools, IBIS, video assist tools, ergonomics, look/design, mid-tier lens quality, high-end lens quality (for 24-70mm, 50mm f1.4, etc), etc - I really think Panasonic just have better cameras than all of the competition outside of telephoto lenses and AF - but now the AF is comparable to Sony and easily better than the video AF on Canon's R5c. 

They need to spend the next 6-9 months releasing at least 2-3 more bodies. Specifically a VERY video focused video at NAB in April (like BS2H or S2H with updated stacked sensor, high-frame rates, electronic ND (please!), timecode, and (probably though I don't care too much) 8k) and then a 47-61 megapixel S5 IIr. 

A 24mm and 85mm f1.4 in the 500-650 gram range would also be very welcome.

Panasonic - like Nikon with the 1.8 S lenses, are doing great things with the few lenses its released. The faster lenses are stupid huge and not doing them any favors at all. But Sony also has the 50GM, which is vastly superior to pretty much any L-mount lens in every way. Panasonic should be dissecting every recent GM lens and try to top them, the size of many L-mount bodies and lenses are a detractor for many. The 50 1.4z is still great and can be found used for crazy cheap prices compared to its performance. Sony's latest GM mk2 zooms make the gargantuan L-mount 2.8 zooms look silly in comparison - they're better optically, better AF with the linear motors and are much, much smaller. Sony also has the recent 24/35/135 GM's that are class leading, and cheaper alternatives in many cases like the 20/35/80 1.8's. And then there are the vast 3rd party options including everything Sigma has in the L-mount.

Everyone has a long way to catch Sony on the lens side - the only thing anyone outside of Canon can hope for is to try and stack the spec sheet enough to keep people from choosing Sony or Canon. But as we've seen over the last few years, Sony is the only one gaining market share at the expense of everyone else. Lenses are a major factor in their rise. 

Chris

Just an FYI, if you can get the EDU discount at B&H, there are deals to be had. Kinda want to get one to tinker...

Chris

1 minute ago, SRV1981 said:

Gents! I’m most likely preordering the S5II. The videos that compare to Sony seem like Panny is the go to! 

Awesome! So what's your lens of choice?

21 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Cool story bro. If you can't get images out of the FX30 that don't make you want to vomit, that's user error. You're doing something very wrong.

You missed the point completely. But thanks! 😂😂😂

On 1/5/2023 at 5:35 PM, A_Urquhart said:

If you want a hybrid camera, id skip the FX30. I love it as a video camera but wouldn't want it to be my only camera if I needed stills as well. 

If you take video seriously and don't really need stills, the FX30 would be my pick even over the newly announced S5II....and A7IV.

I'd also be very careful of taking advice from anyone that says the FX30's image quality is 'vomit'. This obviously indicates they have no idea what they are doing.

Nah I’m good, skin tones just do not look good above 1600 or so. That infamous Sony blotchy-ness rears its ugly head. Noise is terrible too compared to the a7IV. So yes weird color shifts on someone’s face to me is vomit. YMMV.

But this is a silly circle jerk since the OP wants something for photos. An ES only camera, without a stacked sensor or an EVF, that can only do a single shot like it’s 1953 instead of 2023, is just a poor recommendation. As a one camera/lens solution they’re looking for - the superior DR and photo capabilities makes a FF hybrid like the a7IV an infinitely better choice. 

And I actually like the FX30, even thought about getting one as a b/c cam, but it won’t cost much more to get better FF options like a minty used a7IV or a7sIII. 

cheers

chris

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

FX30: sharper image, a second ISO that's actually more useful in practical use, and once you equalize for DoF then the "advantage" for FF with noise diminishes. 

FX3: same sensor as the a7Smk3, but with more recording options. 

Anyway, we're splitting hairs here. 

The sharpness difference compared to the a7IV is minimal. DR difference is noticeable. Def splitting hairs, but the a7IV has a lower second ISO and still maintains more than a stop advantage at any ISO. No need to equalize anything, there is a clear advantage with the FF (noise pun intended) and you can still go s35 if you want.

The FX3 has the same recording options as the a7sIII, identical frame rates and bitrates.

Plus the op is looking for a hybrid to shoot photos, the FX30 is a mediocre stills camera at best. IMO its an odd recommendation that really doesn't fit the bill.

Cheers

Chris

54 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

The FX3/FX30 have a better UI for video shooting with, it's purpose built around that. And has the edge in image quality too. Plus has TC, that the a7 & a7S series cameras lack. 

Guess we have different view on "better IQ", I'll take more DR, better highlight rolloff, less noise and less RS - the a7sIII. But I'll still take more RS with the a7IV over the FX30 because the rest of the image is better. Once you get above the second base ISO on the FX30, the image goes to shit. Even at the base ISO's skin tones look blotchy in many of the videos I've seen. Vomit.

Cheers

Chris