webrunner5

Wow the music fits that video to a Tee. Love it. Great stuf!

I have a 14x Fujinon I only paid $50.00 for.

1 hour ago, mat33 said:

Its the big problem with the internet in that most people don't want to pay for information to be created.  So we see sources that should be unbiased or impartial (or at least be biased towards providing for and protecting their readers) having a higher level conflict of interest in that while their readers are important long-term, in the short term they aren't the ones keeping the lights on.

The video the DPreview article mentioned is actually old news -was released by Canon in August.  ScottDW has done canon PR videos in the past -he did a pretty good one using the XC10, and this was another canon sponsored video.  Most of his non-PR stuff is shot on a RED, and I'm pretty sure he is not ditching his RED for an 80D.

I am not a subscriber but there are ReidReviews and Luminous Landscapes which have a subscription model for quite in-depth and supposedly unbiased still camera reviews.  Not sure if there is anything for cinema.

Luminous Landscapes tends to lean towards Medium Format cameras, and I can see why, but since they do they have a reasonable amount of video reviews with the people that are the CEO's of those company's  I see no real way you can really pin them down and say this sucks or that sucks and expect them to ever come back LoL.

I guess you have to be sort of a Whore, like it or not, to get a lot of hits and make a ton of money doing it. I think DPR has grown too big to be able to be really "fair". Too many cooks in the kitchen thingy.

But they used to do some crazy long reviews which was good, now they seem to be 40% of what they used to do these days. And yes, Andrew did add a lot to the video side of things. They really don't have anyone on there that is great with the video part of it. Barney seems to be trying, but not a lot of past experience. SO not bad, not great.

It is a very slippery slope for sure. I see why they do it, ergo for the money, but no way they can really call a Spade a Spade without blow back form the people that "Pay the Bills".

Canon has dragged their feet for years on worthy upgrades and most sites see them as the second coming of Jesus Christ. Sure they make great stuff if you want to wait 5 years for a upgrade, a half ass one at that.

These Chinese company's are going to start handing Canon's, Nikon's asses to them soon you watch. Nikon is just about in the grave as far as I can see. I know they will come out with a lot of new stuff next year, but it will be small upgrades to the same old stuff. That is not cutting it in this day and age anymore. They need a lot of home runs, and a lot of it video wise to survive. I don't see it happening.

This is not your fathers camera company stuff anymore. Fast paced world we live in now. Innovate quick or die nowadays. These 4k cameras we would kill for today will be old news 4 years from now, and we will want the sort of older 8k stuff we really can't afford then also LoL. Never ends.

Yeah that is a Fujinon ENG 2/3" f1.8 19x 8.7-165mm lens with a 2x built in doubler in it. They are refered to as a B4 lens. And it does cover a M4/3 sensor with the doubler engaged.

So you end up on a M4/3 camera with figuring in the 2x doubler on the lens and the 2x crop factor of M/4/3 lenses, it is about a constant F3.6 parafocal 35.7mm- 660mm. And I payed $150.00 for it. So they a pretty impossible to beat. That lens cost over $10,000.00 when it was new 20 years ago!

And they have a built in zoom servo on them, and has Macro focusing too boot!

A bit clearer! iPhone picture not in the best of circumstances.

6 hours ago, mercer said:

He uses a hot shoe handle on his gx80 and with his new implementation of the Sigma 18-35mm and metabones adapter, Jase is afraid the hot shoe may break due to the load.

Ahh now I see. I have the same problem I am facing with my Panasonic G7 rig. I am going to buy a Zacuto Half Cage, with their handle. Big bucks to buy, but beats dropping my rig.

Blury picture and all!

Ahh what does a lens have to do with a hot shoe?? Lens mount maybe, hot shoe?

I used to spend hours at a time on DPR, now I only spend minutes a day unless it is some article about something I might want to buy. I spend NO time just browsing or talking on the forums. It is a cesspool of stupid putdowns and "Oh he must be a Troll " responses anymore. They have REALLY went downhill as of late. Total waste of time now.

8 minutes ago, Liam said:

@martinmcgreal great images! Have you compared the pocket cadence in prores to raw? I heard raw is notably better

I agree. The grading is just to die for in those shots. That is what we all strive to get, as least I do. Well done!

I am not too sure noise has that much of an effect with less or more color. It is just harder to see it for the noise! 8bit is limited to so many colors, and 10bit has a ton more colors. Sure both will be noisy if the sensor sucks, but there is still a LOT more data to deal with for 10bit compared to 8bit. The noise floor is lots lower now with modern sensors that unless you are pushing ISO way up on small sensors, having a fast lens solves even those problems a lot, and you are allowed to add lighting!

I really think buying a used Red now that they are 5k or less, maybe the real way to go and sort of have a camera that will work, no excuses, for 3,4,5 or more years. They can flat out get the job done, other than really low light.

And output in Raw with some killer footage to boot. Not making them work is the camera operators fault, not the cameras fault. Probably the best camera anyone can afford if you are sort of serious about making it happen for years to come. They are a workhorse, built to last camera. And you have no one to blame but yourself if it does not work. No need to upgrade etc.. They are that good, even the original Red One. MX is the way to go, but...

2 hours ago, mercer said:

It sounds like you may need some Mark iii ML Raw or a 2.5K BMCC... which are so cheap used now I am questioning why I am going to spend about the same for a new BMPCC...

Yeah but they have a passive lens mount which sort of sucks compared to the Pocket, internal battery also. But the 2k part of them is very tempting. You are right, they are a bargin for what they can output.

I found this chart about Red cameras that might be interesting to people buying the older models.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?70447-Differences-between-Scarlet-Red-One-and-Epic-Tech-Specs-Side-by-Side-Chart

32 minutes ago, Liam said:

do you mean 16mm? - just confused, but if that's what you meant, you can speedboost it to help that (as well as low light)

 

also, a few things

your top requirements are now the most subjective (cadence, good color, softishness)

I was pretty sure the pocket was supposed to have some of the best cadence. you can add the 1dc to the best cadence list for sure by the way.

the f3 was the camera Ed used on his film Five Star. all handheld style filming, great test of cadence. maybe "not perfect", but "better than some" could even be an understatement

maybe make sure you're comparing to the kings in the cadence arena too (f65, alexa, film) and that you're not just now discovering a problem with your display or noticing 24fps as a problem or something, because of suuuper intense pixel peeping

I'm confused how you like graded 8-bit c-log you're seeing, but you're concerned about how well it holds up to grading (your looks may be more intense I suppose, or just in case there's a problem shooting you can correct it - but 1dc/c300 footage doesn't look too thin or artifact filled at all).

also, I assume you have experience with the anamorphic lenses in question, but that glass has potential to both make sharp 4k more cinematic (especially opposed to online tests using L-series lenses or god knows what) - and not be a problem for good 1080p to cover.

probably all of your options and more have been suggested though. it's okay to have opinions and be picky here, it's a big purchase. but maybe the only thing you can do now is mull on it. remember the audience could be amazed by just about any of those suggested and/or not notice the difference (not that you shouldn't fall in love with the camera, but if you hate all of them.. that's too far the other way)

I agree. The audience doesn't know if it was shot on a 8mm film camera or a Arri Alexa. And I doubt they would care if they knew. The story is king not the camera in a short or movie. And it has only been lately that there even has been 10bit cameras to buy that any normal person can afford.

I know no one wants to make a crappy movie looks wise, but in this day there are so many LuTs, editing programs, that I think you can make any camera look like any camera if you really want to. And if you expose right to start with there is plenty of meat even with 8bit to edit with.

I find to me I am in a crazy period right now anyways. When I look at 1080p it looks like crap to me now, and the 4k stuff looks too good, to digital, too sterile. So here I go paying big bucks for a 4k camera to make it look like shit so it feels better to view LoL. I don't know what the answer is other than find another business, hobby! A cheap one at that!

7 minutes ago, Laurier said:

My overall personal experience after having a Bmpcc , GH4, a7s + recorder and some production with them are that ... I m done with dslr style camera .

Either the codec or the battery or the colors are issues (or rolling shutter ect)...

 

So I decided to move to something more professional and also considered a red one , a kinefinity terra and a Ursa mini

( I m doing creative work so I need a bit of slow mo, so no canon)

 

At the end of the day I went with the ursa mini 4.6k .

The red one is just too heavy, won t have warranty and the accessories are not transferable with the more modern red cameras,  it s fine if you have small crew around you , but as the solo operator it s too hard to manage IMO ( and no 4k 60fps ) But the image is great and the workflow too.

I actually pre ordered the terra 5k, but canceled it after so many delays, also one of my a7s died on shooting and made me realize how important it is to be able to send your camera for repair easily, with Kinefinity you have to send your camera back to china ...so also a no go.

 

 

Red mx brains (either scarlet or epic ) prices are dropping but the accessories are still quite expensive .

 

I agree, DLSR or even mirrorless just suck ass compared to a camcorder form factor. Having to hang 20 things off a cage is just crazy. Non of it is great but at least real cine cameras have most of the stuff you need as buttons, knobs, etc. I HATE complex menus to get to stuff. But for most people I think this new GH5 might be pretty much all you need rigged up well. The price will be right for what it can do I bet compared to the rest of the pack in it's price range.

Will be Very interesting what the next Sony A7s will have to counter it. They are going to have to make a bigger body for better heat dissipation and battery life to make it really a top notch trustworthy outlay. Man I can't have something that Maybe will work, it has to for that much.
 

Well martinmcgreal here is your answer right here, buy the damn thing Now. Hurry! Need to get it for  little less, but I bet you can.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/35666868707/permalink/10154835915523708/?sale_post_id=10154835915523708

I agree, no way you can beat a Sony F3 if you don't need 4k. Although not as good of Codec, the Canon C100 now, with its sub 2k cost is sort of tempting also especially with the DP AF upgrade in one. Great run and Gun camera also. 8bit out but..

36 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Thought some of those skin tones looked a bit plasticy.

Apart from that it looked great.

LMAO.

1 hour ago, jabnes said:

Hello folks,

Need help with anyone who has experience with the Atomos Shogun. As I have not bought one yet.

WIth the boom + audio jacked into the XLR port synced to video is there any chance I can wear wireless headphones and hear the audio coming in while I direct the actors?

Is there a USB port? I have currently have the following headphones.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bose-SoundLink-Around-Ear-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B0117RGG8E/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1481734656&sr=1-2&keywords=wireless%2Bheadphones&th=1

Bottom line I'd like to use these stellar headphones to hear boom audio while being able to walk around? Is there a work around?

Regards
Jason

It only has a USB docking port thingy available. 60 bucks for it.

I use this method I found on Resovle and I like the look. Covers up a Lot of mistakes! https://davidtorcivia.com/film-grain-and-davinci-resolve/

3 hours ago, martinmcgreal said:

The answers obvious, if it wasn't already .. The MX can deliver this, effortlessly .. I'm just not sure that's still enough to convince me to purchase such an old/enormous piece of kit .. 

That Red MX, "old/enormous piece of kit" has made a lot of people some serious money, and some a lot of fame using it!

Well for the money you have to spend You are limited to just a few products that fit your criteria, and when you think about it even you had 20k there are really not too many more to add to it in reality. There really is only Canon, Red, or Sony that come close money wise, So I still think it is Sony FS5, Red MX, Canon C500 in my mind I would buy if I had YOUR money.

For what I do, I am mostly a tripod, prime lens guy. I would go with the Red MX. Probably the cheapest overall way to go if you get a good deal on a complete kit.

No one can say that Canon does not has the Color Science pretty much down. Red has probably a better cine look to it, and Raw is it's Big plus. And the Sony size and weight, and being the newest camera has a edge there also.

I am sure with say Filmconvert or Resolve you can work the Color Science into it. Although I sort of like the Red look OOC. Not going to take the weight of it away, so no Gimbal, Drone, even shoulder work will be hard to do on it.

I think it comes down to the Red slow and greater result, the Sony FS5 weaker, but a lot more agile and able to run and gun if needed. Not a lot of difference cost wise. The Canon C500 easiest to Grade especially if you do closeups of women a lot or have a lot of landscapes involved in it..

On 12/13/2016 at 3:18 PM, martinmcgreal said:

The only true conclusion I've been able to make so far from this discussion is that the pocket camera really is a phenomenal piece of kit for the price. I'm searching in a market for systems five or six times the price of the pocket, yet have failed to find anything that is a substantial improvement upon it, with regards to either specs or usability. Essentially, all I want is a system with the pocket's specs, 4K, a more softer digital looking image (one could argue this can be achieved through choice of glass), and something that isn't ridiculous huge. Yet for an extra few thousands of pounds, this can't be found .. Extremely disappointing, as it is frustrating .. Do appreciate all the comments so far though - great that so many of you guys are contributing, despite the lack of progress in terms of a conclusion .. We'll get there! 

Regarding the 1DC - I love the image as much as I do the C100ii, but spending thousands of pounds for an image that falls apart under any substantial grading is a deal-breaker .. It hurts me to say that, since I do love the depth/colour to Canon's image, but I can't suger-coat 8-bit when there's thousands of pounds at stake .. I agree though, I have to make a compromise somewhere - I'd just father it be a spec less influential than colour bit .. 

What I do have on my side is time .. I'm in no rush to make a purchase, and who knows, come March/April when I do make the decision, there could be a system that ticks all my boxes, or a price-drop for a system that currently does. If the GH5 has impressive low-light, I'll probably just settle with that, and invest everything else in some beautiful glass .. What's the verdict on Panasonic's colour science? 

Shoot the pocket camera through a B4 ENG 1/2, 2/3 lens and it knocks down the digital look big time. And they are cheap as hell to buy also for impressive glass stats and original costs.

1 minute ago, marcuswolschon said:

No, I'm just asking you how you could possibly have noticed that they are definately the same sensor.

Please explain how you found that out for a camera that doesn't publicly exit yet!

It may be that they are all of the current generation made by Sony but that doesn't make it the same sensor. It would just explain very similar specifications.

I have a slight feeling I have read somethings you haven't about it. I am not free to state source, sorry. But I could be wrong. Not the first time.

10 minutes ago, marcuswolschon said:

How could you have possibly noticed that?

Nobody ever published the ID of the sensor model of the GH5.

Given the size of the order it's even possible to get modifications included or a different stepping for the same model.

So you think Panasonic has completely funded their own unique sensor? That would be a pretty expensive outlay if true for just one camera model that really doesn't sell that well because of high cost. You could be right.

For less money you could buy a used Vinten. Not their best one but hey.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vinten-Pro-6-HDV-Protouch-Video-Camera-Tripod-System-Excellent-/201746357803?hash=item2ef9051e2b:g:oskAAOSwnHZYTQYn