mercer

In a lot that I've seen, they conclude in the end that the Alexa's picture is nicer, but not 20x nicer (or whatever the price multiple is).  They're completely correct.  If you're an owner-operator shooting corporate talking heads or weddings or short films with a budget of about $1k, you'd be crazy to buy an Alexa for it.
On the other hand, if you're shooting a feature film with a budget of 200 million dollars and the cost for several Alexas is about 0.2% of your budget (as IronFilm pointed out), you're probably not thinking in terms of value, but about the "best" tool to create the image.
Similarly, you'd be crazy to buy a 12-18 million dollar F1 racecar to commute to work.  It's a terrible value compared to like, a Toyota Camry.  But if you show up on the track at Interlagos on race day driving a Camry...

I'd love a monthly "challenge" (as long as it isn't a competition) to inspire the creativity of members.  Perhaps the one suggesting the theme could change monthly too, with the previous month's suggester choosing the next month's suggester along with the suggestion!

I agree, the S5 and even more the S1 (with better IBIS, 6K and Open Gate) are fantastic value, I still have these camera along with the even older A7III.
For my use, I much prefer the S1 or S5 over the A7III, the video quality is much better, there is no annoying NR or detail smoothing at high ISO, the details are well maintened whereas the A7III looks quickly mushy, a bit like the S5II with rec 709 profiles. The IBIS is also much better on the S1 and S5. Only the AF is not as good as the A7III, but with the last firmwares and the last Sigma lenses like the 28-45mm, it is much faster than before. I don't have any issue if I don't shoot fast moving subjects. Some old lenses like 35mm Sigma F2 are almost unusable on these cameras though ...

Yes ! The GH5 is also a great value, even if I have most recent m43 cameras like the GH6 or G9II, the GH5 is still unbeatable for 4k/Open Gate quality and the Open Gate can be used at 60 fps !
The GH6 is special, lot of issues even with the AF, but the colors are the best I've seen on any Panasonic camera.

I hate those videos that try and compare a $1000 camera to an Alexa with a stupid thumbnail that suggests you'll be surprised by the results. Inevitably, you learn that the operator wasn't as good at using cameras as he was at making thumbnails, or they intentionally cripple the Alexa by shooting in ways to highlight the $1000 camera.
That said, I agree that probably 9 out of 10 times, nobody will realize what camera you shot your movie with as long as the story is good and engaging, but I do think that a couple of those people may feel like something was off without knowing why.
An Alexa costs 50K+ for a reason. And although I believe craft and resources lend to the final look of the film, the sensor, the Arri color science and its thick files are a piece of the puzzle.
A long time ago, I got hooked on my Canon 5Diii with ML Raw because it was the first time I had shot something where I looked at it and thought... man that almost looks like a real movie. So there are some "intangibles" involved because I am not that talented, nor that skilled. I have shot with a bunch of cameras since... GH5, GH6, Sigma FP, S5iiX, Canon R7, etc... and although the FP comes close, but even its 4K raw image is no match to my trusty, old 5D3 in gross old 1080p raw.

FP X3? Did I miss the one and two?

Or the Sony ZV-E10ii with the PZ Kit Lens. A combo I must admit I am slightly interested in.
Obviously, the Canon is for a different market and not for most people who frequent this forum. All in all, it's a solid release. Canon has been on a roll IMO. I must admit that I have been pleasantly surprised by the R7 I've been using lately. Not to mention the Canon camcorder. I know a lot of folks around here don't love Canon Log 3 but I think it's a very simple Log profile to work with.
If the R6ii shot internal raw, I'd probably sell my FP and go all in on Canon.
For totally different reasons, if Sony would give me an RX10ii (body/lens) with the 10bit from the E10ii, I'd be very happy. Or if Panasonic would release an FZ5000 with the internal ProRes... yes please!

Or the Sony ZV-E10ii with the PZ Kit Lens. A combo I must admit I am slightly interested in.
Obviously, the Canon is for a different market and not for most people who frequent this forum. All in all, it's a solid release. Canon has been on a roll IMO. I must admit that I have been pleasantly surprised by the R7 I've been using lately. Not to mention the Canon camcorder. I know a lot of folks around here don't love Canon Log 3 but I think it's a very simple Log profile to work with.
If the R6ii shot internal raw, I'd probably sell my FP and go all in on Canon.
For totally different reasons, if Sony would give me an RX10ii (body/lens) with the 10bit from the E10ii, I'd be very happy. Or if Panasonic would release an FZ5000 with the internal ProRes... yes please!

My initial reaction to this camera was "actually thats really quite a decent package" and it is but I still find the FujiFilm X-M5 with its kit lens a more compelling option.

OK, so the lens will make it bigger but not dramatically so.
You can even just ignore the interchangeable lens option and just stick with the kit lens and pretend its the same sort of integrated compact.
At the risk of opening up the floodgates in a "what have the Romans ever done for us" style, I'm not seeing much of an advantage with the V1 against that combo.
And with FujiFilm's trickle out of production they are both equally unavailable in Europe too.

hey guise
ive got my friends R6m2 for a couple weeks while hes out of town, just started trynna figure out clog3 exposure/best practices...
your thoughts???
iso range/clean ISOs?
best exposure techniques?
etc??
help!! please and thank you!!!
 

I hate those videos that try and compare a $1000 camera to an Alexa with a stupid thumbnail that suggests you'll be surprised by the results. Inevitably, you learn that the operator wasn't as good at using cameras as he was at making thumbnails, or they intentionally cripple the Alexa by shooting in ways to highlight the $1000 camera.
That said, I agree that probably 9 out of 10 times, nobody will realize what camera you shot your movie with as long as the story is good and engaging, but I do think that a couple of those people may feel like something was off without knowing why.
An Alexa costs 50K+ for a reason. And although I believe craft and resources lend to the final look of the film, the sensor, the Arri color science and its thick files are a piece of the puzzle.
A long time ago, I got hooked on my Canon 5Diii with ML Raw because it was the first time I had shot something where I looked at it and thought... man that almost looks like a real movie. So there are some "intangibles" involved because I am not that talented, nor that skilled. I have shot with a bunch of cameras since... GH5, GH6, Sigma FP, S5iiX, Canon R7, etc... and although the FP comes close, but even its 4K raw image is no match to my trusty, old 5D3 in gross old 1080p raw.

Yes his work was great, I much liked his earlier work with the t2i vs the new camera that he is using now though.

Very true. I've long said that most of us don't even have a television large enough to make the most out of 4K so the push for high resolution is kind of pointless.
I agree in principle, THOUGH I do think the ALEXA still has more advantages than just dynamic range. People I know who work with it always tell me it's the easiest to get the grade they are looking for and for my eyes there is something about the image that feels more organic. I am, though, open to the idea that there is a level of bias when looking at footage you know is from an ALEXA.

Yeah, the cinematography and moody grading overcame the lack of resolution.
https://www.eoshd.com/lens/kendy-ty-t2i-one-guy-amazing-things-5-year-old-dslr/
But we still feel the need (myself included) to pixel peep.
I suppose it's a hobby if anything - whether it has any real creative use, is open to debate... In some way it is relevant, but it all depends on what serves the content and story, and the lighting and cinematography. Sometimes, that demands a Hi8 camcorder!

As others have said, for the most part, proper lighting and grading is often more important than the image straight out of the camera.
Though with that said, Alexa is still the most flexible image that you'll find coming out of a camera, That's followed by Burano and V-Raptor and most recently, apparently, Ursa Cine (still needs more time for user tests to confirm/deny, but the tests on paper are impressive.
If you're shooting a film with a big budget, your A camera is almost definitely Alexa.  Why?  Because it's the most flexible image.  Because your high-end gaffer will automatically know how to light well for it.  Because your high-end editor and colorist will instantly know how to push the footage around and probably have pre-defined workflows for working with it.  Is it still the best image?  Arguable.
If you're shooting a decent budget indie flick, you're more likely to find Burano/Venice or V-Raptor?  Why?  Similar things to the above, but you're paying less than Alexa.
If you're shooting lower budget than that, it's a complete crapshoot.  It'll probably involve the letters F, X, and 6, but if it's a run and gun documentary, it might involve C300 and/or C70.
 
From what I've seen, if you want to penetrate the bigger productions, you're better off not trying to compete with Alexa for A camera, but to aim to make secondary cameras that fit in places where it doesn't.  Civil War, for example, famously used the Ronin 4D for a bunch of the handheld stuff because it's a quick/easy gimbal camera with decent autofocus.  I hear they're making inroads on other productions too for similar reasons - and on other stuff because, like, the 4d flex is great for tight spaces and/or car-to-car shots.
The most recent Mission Impossible and the upcoming one use Z Cam E2-F6 as crash cameras because they're cheap (for Hollywood), make a great image, and are reliable (no overheating, you can basically hammer nails with the body all day and then go record some video at night).  That footage of Tom Cruise flying off a cliff on a motorcycle?  Nearly all Z-Cam.
 
Anyway, the point is that the image SOOC on high-end cameras should look good.  Should it look THAT much better than a mirrorless camera in the hands of a proficient operator?  Nope.  Just a few weeks ago, Kye posted some stuff that he shot in Korea using, if I remember right, the original BM micro studio camera from like a hundred years ago.  Looked great.  You could project it in a cinema as part of a feature and the audience would be none the wiser to the camera used.

*bump*
im thinking abt getting an r5 ii, but reading this thread, WOW have there been issues -- so sorry u guys have had to deal w returning cameras/etc, what a nightmare
how are things going at the moment? have firmware updates worked the bugs out? whats the latest?
hi btw lol 👋🏻

Who wants to tell her that if she had just turned around and faced the setting sun, she could have continued using her iPhone?
Not it.

Starting edit for Experiment 2.
First step is to apply a basic grade and get a tone for the project.  It was hot as hell, humid as hell, and hazy, so the grade is in that general direction.









Grade is mostly Film Look Creator and then ARRI709 LUT, with only basic contrast / exposure adjustments.
I might try to cool the shadows a bit and balance off some of the brown, but it's a start.  I compared it to some 200T scans and it's a lot closer than I thought it would be.

Well, my little black X-M5 finally arrived from Japan and wow, it’s tiny. Had some fun rigging it up as a tiny little micro cinema cam today LOL. USB C dummy battery arrives tomorrow and a couple little accessories to mount the Ninja V+ in a way that doesn’t look too ridiculous. Only complaint so far is the smallrig cage for it is a little overpriced and doesn’t come in all black. Just the strange steampunk looking retro vibes. 
 

Cool topic! I look forward to seeing what you come up with. As you probably know, I have both the 5D Mark iii and the FP. In a lot of ways, they're redundant. I even use the same process and settings to render the 4K cDNG files to ProRes for editing/color in FCPX. The 4K helps with the FP. Some vintage lenses, most of what I own, are just too soft on the 5D.
But I agree that there's some kind of funkiness with the FP's image. I think it's processed a little in camera with NR and/or sharpness. No way to know that for sure, though. I tried using the 800 ISO trick, but I really didn't notice that much of a difference... I guess a stop or so in the highlights. I think the main benefit of the FP over the 5D3, for me, are the two ISOs for night/indoor shoots and due to the 4K it's sharper, so it has a more "modern cinematic" video look compared to the 5D3 which has more of a filmic look. 
I heard the s35 crop is actually better on the FP, but I didn't really notice much of a difference there either. I've been tempted to pick up a Canon 24mm 2.8 IS and the Sigma adapter and put it in s35 for a better handheld solution, but I haven't gotten around to it.
I completely agree about the 8bit 4K in camera raw!!! There's actually something so unique about the image.
Anyway, I look forward to some of your tests with the FP-L and c-mounts. I just sold my BMMCC, so I need to find a new camera for my c-mount lenses. I don't have anything too fancy like you do, but I do like them very much.

All this needs is an old Ninja 2 to make an interesting DIY CCD ProRes shooting cine camera with a smaller sensor 😉 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003731513738.html
 

It’s likely way too niche for them but I’d love to see the Chinese lens manufacturers like 7Artisans etc do some C mount Super 16mm lenses.
It would avoid the eBay crapshoot and based on their Super35 prices they could probably produce some good stuff for circa £150 a pop or even less.
 

Locked off shots and not using ISO One Billion to make night time look like broad daylight, what sort of heresy is this ?

Visuals, music and sound design are all original.

Oneplus 8 pro modded with Vega 20mm wide open with custom  anamorphic lens, Motioncam pro app.

I thought the same thing but with the A7CR. Despite its compromises, it’s smaller and more compact like the FP L. It does raw out to the Ninja but the main conversation here seems to be the chunky and filmic CDNG files. That’s the mojo.
A7CR is now $2,000  and would make a nice little high mp travel companion for my other video spec’d bodies. But I don’t think we would come anywhere close to that filmic image of the Sigma FP/L.