mercer

Being an FCPX user, ProRes is definitely the most interesting aspect to me. With that being said, I have zero need for 4K right now, so even though the camera is a steal, for a second camera, a Micro would/could make more sense for me. But then the allure of that Dual ISO sensor is appealing. Has anyone shot and shared any 1080p ProRes? In my brief search for it, I haven’t found much 1080p from the P4K, especially in 24p.

Interesting poll and discussion. I struggle with color... both in theory and practice. I’ve always been a tinkerer and with most things in life, I can figure it out but color correction/grading has eluded my tinkering ways. It is an art, and a craft. And the folks who are really great at it are either naturals or well trained. There are so many facets to the craft that out of respect for it, and the people that take the time to perfect their craft, I hate even referring to myself as a hobbyist colorist. I can only speak for myself, but I find the most difficult part of color work to be correction. That portion of the craft can make or break the acquisition phase and the grading phase. There is such a symbiotic relationship that it does make sense that shooters are also coloring their own work but traditionally and professionally that is not the case. I’m guilty of it myself, but I think mistakes in the acquisition phase can make color correction/grading more difficult than it needs to be... For instance, most shooters, in most situations, do not need Log footage, or 10bit video, but they use it anyway because they want more latitude... because somewhere, someone told them they needed it. Proper exposure for 8 or 10 stops of dynamic range is difficult enough, when you start adding 3 or 5 more stops of DR with a Log curve you are entering a different level of skill set and understanding of Log Curves that could be more detrimental than just shooting with a flat Rec709 profile and keeping your color work more basic. I have not shot in every scenario possible but with my basic understanding of shooting, most situations can be properly shot with 8-10 stops of DR. So if that’s the case, why shoot with a Log curve designed for 12 or more? I’ve personally found 10-12 stops to be a good sweet spot for the type of image I am looking for. If I was a Hollywood DP, I’m sure I could justify 15-18 stops. I guess what I’m trying to say is... like most things in life, less is more in most instances. So in summation, this is a learning process and as I learn I realize what I don’t know and more importantly what I don’t need. But color grading is fun and I wish I were better at it.

I didn’t watch that comparison video but I wonder if you have the P4K, do you guys feel you need the GH5s? Or if you have the GH5s, do you need the Z-Cam E2... since they all share the same sensor? Obviously, I get the different feature set but it seems the GH5s gives you about 80-90% of ProRes HQ from the P4K. If you need Raw, that’s a different story, but I assume the majority of folks that own the P4K, do not shoot Raw.

Yup, the original C100 is a steal right now. I’ve posted this video before, but I think the image still holds up today... And if you’re interested in narratives, this video proves that it is well suited for that too...

Good eye, Kye. This morning I had a look at those clips and realized I had Sharpening turned up to 25 in the Raw Panel. I usually leave it at the 10 default setting. After our discussion, I decided to process the clips through the MLVApp to ProRes and have a stab at them in FCPX. I think this one turned out nicer... Carl Zeiss 25mm f/2.8

@wolf33d Why are you so sure the AF will suck? DPAF works with DSLRs and if Nikon is serious about video, they may introduce PDAF into a D5700... and let’s be honest here... good video AF is more important to the sub $1000 market than it is to the plus $2000 market.

The last I saw on Canon rumors was about a month or two ago and they hinted at a March announcement. The original rumors stated they were going to use the ef-m mount but now he heard that they may use the rf... I’d rather have an ef mount to be honest. Sorry I don’t have the time to find the last rumor right now.

It actually looks like it is balanced fairly well. Do you have any clips or screengrabs with this setup?

The C200 is almost two years old and I suspect we are going to see a C300 update at this NAB and possibly the interchangeable lens XC series camera that has been rumored to be in development for the past year. With those cameras entering the market, I would expect a price drop for the C200... I would assume $5999 for the C200 and $3999 for the C200B and I may very well snatch up a C200B at that price. Now if Canon is smart and offers RawLite (even 2K up to 60p) on this XC camera, I may go that route instead depending on specs and price. It could be a great camera to introduce IBIS as well.

Yeah a D5500 with no crop 4K would probably be an easy buy for me. I’d love if Nikon contacted Pentax to find out how they’ve had focus peaking and IBIS in DSLR bodies for years and include them in the D5700.

That does look pretty good... crazy thing is that this wasn’t shot in the experimental 4K modes... it was just the regular 14bit ML Raw and he uprezzed it to 4K for YouTube. It fooled me while I watched it.

Does the IBIS help to stabilize... the camera?

You know, part of me wants to sell off almost everything I own and buy a GH5s, a speedbooster, a simple set of 3 vintage lenses and a Ronin. Then spend a ton of time taking color grading courses learning to grade VLog. The GH series cameras are the safest camera purchase on the market.

True but nothing about this “test” is fair. Pitting an f/2 lens vs an f/2.8 lens wide open isn’t fair. Also Nikkor lenses are traditionally warmer than Zeiss lenses. Hell, I may have even set the color temperature differently in the Raw panel because I preferred one over the other at the time. I have a very modicum amount of grading skills, so I prefer to allow the equipments’ natural tendencies to do some of the job for me. Color grading is a craft in and of itself and as a one man band filmmaker, it is impossible for me to be great at every discipline. Of course I try my best, to do my best and your point on the lesson is definitely taken and food for thought.

@BTM_Pix yeah I must admit, other than the past few days, I’ve been steering clear of this site a little because quite frankly I am tired of defending myself when using words like cinematic, mojo, etc... I’m definitely not the most talented or skilled person around these parts but if somebody needs quantifiable definitions for mojo, then they’re not using their eyes or capturing with their gut. If this stuff was one hundred percent scientific, then I’d be a lot better and we’d all be Kubrick but it isn’t no matter how much math you throw at an explanation. Art isn’t always describable and a brush stroke can only explain so much. It’s when science and art melds with craft and emotion does a beautiful image appear. I am far from that goal but it doesn’t mean I can’t recognize it without explanation. end rant That Angenieux looks beautiful. I’m always tempted to pick up the 35-70mm Nikon Mount Angenieux until I see the price tag. With my brief stint with the Micro, I had the 15mm c-mount and it was like painting with pastels and sharp as a tack at the same time. Does that 25-250mm cover S35 or is that using the magic zoom function of the LS300? With that being said, here's a shot of the same subject from the Zeiss 50mm 1.8 Rollei mount lens...

Yeah us lens nerds are more forgiving than the sensor nerds, I guess.

@BTM_Pix yup I noticed the Zeiss was a lot cooler in the mids. But I was surprised that the slower lens had better separation. I’m sure it’s more quantifiable than magic so I’ll use the word mojo instead but those old Rollei Zeiss lenses seem to have it in spades... much better than the Contax Zeiss I’ve tested in the past. Wrong time of the year for NYC for me... way too cold for my slim build. I’ll get a shot of Taxi Driver on the TV if you want?

So, I took a drive yesterday in the cold to do a test of a few lenses... the Nikkor 24mm f/2 vs the Carl Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 in the Rollei QBM mount. Here are the results... Nikkor 24mm f/2 Carl Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 I found the speed of the Nikkor to be pretty helpful considering that that shot was taken about 10 minutes after the Zeiss shot, but there is just something about that cold Zeiss look that has a definite pop to it that seems more cinematic... maybe it's in my head? Full disclosure... I didn't attempt to match these images, I just did a basic Rec709 conversion and a little bit of curves and saturation. Also I am still using my MacBook Air screen for all of this preliminary color work and lens tests. I'm in the process of deciding on a monitor upgrade... so these may look like crap compared to what I am seeing in Resolve... oh the fun of hobbyist color work... lol.

That’s true, for that shot, since it only requires minimal DR, a neutral profile or the Marvel profile may be more than enough DR to capture everything cleanly.

I don’t think you should be normal exposing C-Log... I think you’ll get the best results with ETTR. I can’t say for sure that it will cure this issue though.

If you’re looking for good 1080p from a Panasonic camera, you need to go with the GH series or the G6. Even the GH4 will give you a high bitrate all-i 1080p. Here are a couple frame grabs from the FZ2500 shot in the 200mbps all-i codec. The internals of the FZ2500 are very similar to the GH4 but with a smaller sensor and a built in lens...

@zerocool22 well I think I’ve told you that your wolf Japan video is one of the videos that sold me on ML Raw. And although I’d love some 4K Raw, I’m more interested in Raw with DPAF and 1080p at 60p. How do you like the P4K? For now I’m fine with the 5D3, I may try the experimental build and see if I can get 2.5K out of her. Between that and the eos-m, my boredom should be cured while I get some writing done for my projects. I was considering looking for a used 5D4 to help with the testing but I know very little about coding and running scripts, so I’m afraid I’d efff something up and cause more problems than good. Let us know how it goes. My first attempts with ML on the eos-m, a few years ago, were maddening. No matter what I did, I couldn’t get rid of the pink dots but I hear that isn’t an issue anymore.

And yes, that’s why I said a major manufacturer to exclude BM from the equation because no matter how you look at it, it will take one model from Canon, Sony or Panasonic, even at a slightly higher price, to take the spotlight away from BM. The security of having a camera that has good battery life and an IR Cut Filter built into the stack with better ergonomics and AF and IBIS, or whatever, will go along way. Yeah I agree. The GH5 should have been priced at $1500 and the GH5s should have been $2000. Of course, I think Donal Trump once said... why charge $200 for an airplane ticket if the consumer will pay $500. Since the GH5 was a good seller, the price point may have been right. However, I don’t think they saw what was going to come out after and for the price that it did. Obviously, the P4K at $1299 is a big hit at Panasonic and the GH series because they are both aiming hard for the video market. But I think the real surprise was the X-T3. That was unprecedented with what was offered and why it is probably the camera of the year imo.

With that being said, I don’t see how Micro 4/3 will be dead, especially the GH series. I can only imagine that the GH5 was Panasonic’s most popular camera, so I don’t see how they could abandon that market. However, with Panasonic’s embracing of video, I don’t see how they can continue to only offer contrast based AF. I also wonder if the resolution war will eventually be subsided by the Raw Video war. The first major manufacturer to offer internal Raw Video, even at 2K or up to 4K at up to 60p will have the other companies in a frenzy. You thought Panasonic’s 10bit inclusion was big, wait until they offer internal 12bit Raw. Of course, I think Canon may be the first to do it with RawLite.

Well that’s what’s crazy about this idiotic hobby of mine. For instance, I was looking at some Red Scarlet-X videos earlier today and drooling. But some of them are 6-7 years old and by today’s standards look outdated. I’m afraid that the push for 4K, now 8K televisions and web distribution has forced a specific look onto the consumer and creator that is more about resolution than it is about artistic choice. Even looking at Red videos, you see more samples shot with the Sigma 18-35mm than you do with a Kowa or Lomo lens. The modern aesthetic has been force fed to us and if it isn’t crystal clear, a lot of folks do not like it.