mercer

How’s the rolloff seem on the scopes at 100 iso?

And I think that’s my point. On a video forum, some of the users don’t even realize what people use in the real world to make money. Go to IG and search any camera a lot of people here would scoff at to get a rude awakening. But I think this is more a video gear forum.

I don’t know... there are probably more photographers and videographers making money with a 6Dii than there are with an X-T3. The internet can be so vast... and such a bubble at the same time.

Any ProRes updates or videos popping up?

I thought ISO worked the same in the P4K as it does with the Pocket/Micro... you’re taking a DR/noise hit when you stray away from the native ISO? I believe that is why the OG Pocket originally used ASA instead of ISO. Obviously, you can use ISO to expose, but aperture, NDs and light has kinda been the go to method for exposing on cinema cameras since forever. In the P4Ks case, the Dual ISO feature was so exciting at the announcement because the OG Pocket only had a single ISO that was usable... 800. And since the P4K’s native ISOs are 400 and 3200, the camera instantly became a goodlight and lowlight camera where you could use less ND filtration and less light than the Pocket needed. With that being said, times change and if you’re not noticing that much of a hit in noise/DR/saturation, then that’s good news!

Along with the Nikkor 35mm 1.4, and Canon 28mm 1.8, the Minolta 35mm 1.8 is one of my favorite lenses I’ve ever used. Obviously when I switched to the 5D3, my Minolta lenses didn’t adapt any more but I luckily found a 35mm 1.8 that was modified to the EF mount. The Sigma 18-35mm is a legendary modern lens but I find it a little boring, or should I say... a little neutral. But as a zoom lens, it’s like having 3 prime lenses in one, that are sharp as a tack... so I get the appeal. I used to have the Canon 24-70mm f/4 and it was an amazing lens... SHARP wide open with amazing image stabilization... seriously as good as IBIS on the GX85. At f/4, unfortunately the speed was just too slow for my filming style. But the convenience of a zoom is a bonus. I miss it a lot when I am out shooting. Unfortunately for FF, I believe only Sigma makes a fast zoom, the 24-35mm but that is just a bit too limiting, especially since it doesn’t have IS.

I fricken adore Minolta lenses. If you want to get caught up in some good reading, there’s a Rokkor guide on the REDuser forum that is amazing. One piece of advice for vintage lenses... save the money and buy the better, faster glass. Minolta has some serious legendary glass. The 58mm 1.2 and the 35mm 1.8 and the 28mm f/2 are pieces of mechanical art. On the cheaper end, the 50mm 1.4 PG is also an amazing lens. On the really cheap side, the MD 50mm f/2 is pretty damn good as well. As far as Canon lenses... I am actually pleasantly surprised by them. The 28mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 are sleeper lenses in my opinion. I could film an entire movie with those two lenses and if I wasn’t obsessed with lenses, I’d be completely content with just those. The manual focus of USM lenses aren’t as bad as I thought they would be either. And once I get a couple of these projects done, I may just sell off most of my lenses and keep the Canon lenses. Right now I have about 3 sets of lenses and a couple odd balls that I really like... this time next year, I’ll whittle away at least one set and it won’t be the Canon glass.

Right, which is why I am moving everything to EF. My issue with a single adapter is that they aren’t built to the same quality as the original camera mount, so over time, the metal will wear and the springs will loosen... unless you buy really good adapters like Metabones or Novoflex... but that can get pricey. I also like the different color looks that different lenses can offer. For instance my Zeiss lenses have a naturally cooler look compared to my Nikkors, so when I plan out some projects, I can help my post color work a little by choosing the right lens for the tone of the piece... so although a lot of folks might prefer the clean, sterile look of modern glass and then find the look in post (which is a valid option) I prefer the character of the glass to help me find the look I am after.

When I bought my first camera, I couldn’t afford any good native lenses and since I wanted shallow depth of field, I bought adapters and vintage lenses. When I moved to mirrorless, I did the same thing except the adapters got larger. I followed the advice to get an adapter for every lens so I was swimming in adapters. One of the great things about still lenses are their small size, but once you add the adapters the lens is unbalanced and huge on mirrorless cameras. Once I moved back to a DSLR, thankfully the size of the adapters are smaller, but there is just too much wiggle for my taste and for not much more I can change out the mount via Leitax or Simmod and have all of my lenses with the same mount. But now I have a couple of small boxes full of mirrorless adapters taking up valuable real estate in my closet... but I don’t want to throw them away... maybe I’ll list a bunch of them on eBay or include them with some lenses I plan on selling. As far as speedboosters... it’s just another piece of glass I have to make sure is clean... the lens elements and my NDs are more than enough. Don’t get me wrong, if I have to use one, I will.

Thanks! Is that with the eos-m or do you use the 5D3 experimental build? I think I want to give that a test this week to try and get 2.7/3K out of it... but I’ll also load this onto my eos-m and try a side by side for the fun of it. Also... with these experimental builds in ML, are the basic 14bit settings the same as the stable nightly builds? Meaning: can I have the experimental builds but use the old school build with everything else disabled?

Can you judge framing at all or is it way off?

@Nikkor how is LiveView with those settings?

Well, get out and shoot some stuff... you owe it to the community to show me some 1080p ProRes. But I’m sure it’s great... it sounds better, or at least as good as a Red. I’m going to wait and see how a few things pan out before I make my next move, but this is definitely on the list. @Ehetyz makes some amazing films on his UMP, so his endorsement of the P4K has pushed me a little closer, but since at this point, any camera will be a 2nd camera, I wonder if a Micro would make more sense. And then there’s the Ursa Mini 4K with its global shutter. Or a GH5. Or Z-Cam E2. Or X-T3... Just saying there are a lot of options available to us right now. I’m smack dab in the middle of two projects, so I have zero reason to change systems until the summer or next fall by the earliest... maybe BH will have some P4Ks in stock by then... lol... of course by the time BMD has the preorders filled, they may have to offer a price cut because the camera will be 2 years old.?

I love what Roman Hense does with his a6300, so I can see the appeal of this camera, but in some ways, since it is so recycled, I almost feel it should be cheaper. I mean, other than the AF... is there anything new in this camera?

Well, it’s all relative. I owned both the GX85 and the G85 and I preferred the ergonomics of the G85 to the GX85 and I felt the IBIS was a little better... not as good as Olympus’ but a little better than the GX85. Also if you’re talking sub $1000, you can buy a G9 for less than a grand now, and the IBIS on that camera is supposedly 2 stops better than the GX85 plus it has 4K up to 60p... so it’s all relative. With that being said, the GX85 is a great camera and other than a used Pocket/Micro it’s the best camera under $500.

Oh I hear you and get your point. But a huge difference in price isn’t necessarily a valid point for a visual comparison. You can do the same comparison with any cheap camera and ask the same question. It’s a gotcha comparison designed for a specific answer. For instance, I could do a similar comparison with a D5500 vs the Alexa. The D5500 has about 11 stops of DR... if I had to guess... but it has very clean shadows. Then I could say, “obviously the Alexa wins but it is a $65,000 camera vs. a $500 camera...” Clearly in that video, the Alexa wins. No question. With that being said, I felt the guy did a good job and it shows the strengths of the P4K... but he could have done that without the clickbait “vs” nonsense.

I didn’t mean to suggest it was the same, I just felt the LogC curve was easy to work with. One of these days, I’ll have to find some authentic LogC footage online and give it a go. I do like the Raw image from the C200. I’m hoping the C200B has a significant price drop in the next year or so. I ordered the 85mm yesterday, I was wondering if you knew what I should expect.

Yeah, I know the 1080p out of the P4K is probably pretty darn good but to be frank... I hate adapters now. The idea of using a speedbooster with that camera gives me angina. I’m even switching the mounts on all my lenses to EF via Leitax or Simmod mounts.

I’ve never used either camera but based on comparison videos of X camera vs. the Alexa in the past... yes there is a difference.

@HockeyFan12 obviously you have a lot more experience with different cameras than I have. Even my experience with LogC is based on Log conversions in different MLV apps but since LogC to Rec709 LUTS respond properly to the converted files, I must assume they’re fairly accurate. Have you ever used the FS5? The small form factor, internal 10bit 1080p and external Raw seems very appealing. The used prices seem pretty nice as well. OT - I just bought a Nikkor 85mm 1.4 to go along with my 35mm 1.4. Did you say you have the 85mm?

I’m not here to knock BMD. I think they have done amazing things for indie filmmaking and I have owned a few of their cameras and have loved them. But they aren’t always the most reliable company based on promised specs or deadlines. The global shutter in the Micro comes to mind, as well as the missed release deadlines. Even with the P4K, they promised a September release, which they hit with... a dozen or so cameras being shipped? With that being said, from a business standpoint, B-Raw in the P4K makes zero sense. Why on earth would they include a feature in their lowest model camera that they also include in their highest model? And since B-Raw was released the same week the first P4Ks shipped, then why didn’t they ship the cameras with B-Raw. It’s not like B-Raw was invented the week before. With that being said, I really do hope the P4K gets an upgrade but I wouldn’t buy the camera on that basis alone. But I am starting to warm up to the camera some after seeing your guy’s results.

Honestly, I don’t care about stuff like that. Arri uses 2.7K in the Alexa to downscale to Cinema 2K. I was joking around before in my reply but the sentiment was true. As you recently mentioned somewhere... John Brawley was shooting 1080p ProRes with the Micro and UMP for his network prime time television show. If 4K is important to other shooters, then that’s great, but for my needs... better people than me are delivering at 720p. However, my next goal is to figure out how I can get a clean liveview out of the 5D3 at around 2.5K. I believe you can do it with anamorphic but I don’t know if it’s possible with the regular build or with 12bit MLV Lite With aspherical lenses.

I couldn’t agree more about the importance of cameras. When I first bought my 5D3, I happened upon a cheap Pocket as well. The Raw footage from the 5D was soo much easier to get to look good than the Pocket. I could get a nice image with half of the steps. It’s funny how certain cameras or Log curves are so much easier to navigate than others. You’d think LogC would be difficult but I find it to be one of the easier Log curves to bring to life... also Canon Log and Nikon Flat are very good picture profiles/Log curves in my opinion. @hyalinejim recommended that book to me a while ago and I still haven’t bought it. I wish I had. I’m going to put it in my cart and order it. Thanks.

I liked using the D5500 for video. The flat profile was beautiful and the whole camera felt like an extension of my hand. Sure LiveView was annoying and the lack of exposure tools were an inconvenience (but there was a workaround) but in most cases it was fun to go back to exposing with my eye and having such clean video with more than enough latitude.

@BTM_Pix ... interesting analogy. That band sounds pretty cool... what do they call themselves? I always forget that you can bake LUTS with the P4K. If I was a smarter person I’d probably buy one but I still think 1080p video is going to make a comeback. It’s funny, my best results with color has been using the guided color correction tool in Colorista IV. With some saturation and an s-curve, I’ve received my biggest compliments. Anytime I try to sit down and watch tutorials and learn the proper way... eg. left to my own devices... I spend hours and get worse results. So I agree that it’s great that the tools are available but to master even one discipline in filmmaking is a life long endeavor let alone every single craft.