CMB

I haven't posted here in years, since Andrew Reid publicly berated me for disagreeing with him and belittled my work because I didn't shoot with "a proper camera like a RED or Arri, or even an A7S II ". I'm a nobody, just a cameraman / editor like most of you. A friend told me about this latest rant and I had to dig out my login to say I think this is hilarious. ? 
I've never seen someone throw their toys out the pram so fast. The sense of entitlement here is staggering. Just because you own a somewhat popular camera site doesn't entitle you to anything. I'm sure the 350,000 viewers of this thread (as you keep reminding us) can make up their own mind on whether to purchase a camera. What's especially amusing is that John Brawley doesn't even work for Black Magic and publicly attacking him serves no purpose.
Publicly attacking prominent figures - decrying the press - At this point Andrew Reid / EOSHD is the 'Donald Trump' of camera sites. ☺️

Not quite sure what you mean.  But leaking personal data actually *is* illegal (in the EU at least).

It hasn't happened yet ?.

What a shame.
Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat these contributions I guess ?
I'm here because I've been a member here for years and I'm on many camera forums and this is just another one I like to read and contribute to where I can.
I want to know where all the clowns that were saying on this thread that the world was going to end because BMD didn't have any footage out yet and that definitely meant something was very wrong and the shipping date would be missed.
All I've seen so far is that a planned marketing campaign by BMD that has gone off the way they intended.
They commissioned some actual filmmakers (not bloggers or camera reviewers) that make certain types of film (natural history, action sports, nature) to make some films and then they released them and the camera originals.
Then they gave some cameras, complete with some boxes as if they were new to some secondary users, and whilst having them also under NDA, got them to shoot some test footage and allowed some of them to release that footage.  Again.  Not reviewers.  Not bloggers.
About a thousand reviewers and camera jockeys have done a bunch of made up comparisons and VLOGS based on existing footage. (hey I love seeing my footage being butchered by grading nerds)
Think about it.
No blogger or reviewer ANYWHERE has gotten a functioning camera to shoot with as far as I can tell.  Because that's not what BMD want to do with their marketing of this camera.  This isjust marketing 101. 
They need people using the cameras in the many difference specific sectors of the market will use the camera.  Camera reviews aren't part of that plan. (though it hasn't stopped people doing it based on existing footage)
Until it's shipping, it's their choice to give it to whomever they want.
I'm tired of this entitled bullshit.  
I recently left a few facebook groups I was on for this camera, and I'm doing the same here.  Frankly it's juvenile and I don't need the agro I sure hate explaining what should be obvious.
There's no slight.  
BMD have a marketing department and they have a plan and it doesn't involve forums, bloggers or camera reviewers.  That's not a snub, that's just them marketing the product in the way that they see fit.
JB 
 

oh they know what aliasing is - we drum it into them before every interview on what to wear ie: no checks or stripped shirts or fine lines etc.. they all know.. :P

I even bet the 5D4 won't beat the A6300, but I'm not sure it needs to.
It won't have more resolution (almost certainly much less) but it also won't overheat in the middle of shooting a once-in-a-lifetime BTS interview with Tom Cruise or something. I have friends who do that kind of stuff and they've had to switch back to cameras with a worse image (despite spending more to get less) because A-listers have little patience and probably don't know what aliasing is.
And so.... this argument is fruitless. The 80D is a great low end "pro" camera because it's reliable and the image is good enough to sell (the 7D was used extensively on national ads and still occasionally used as a B camera on major tv series). For resolution enthusiasts, there are lots of other options, though. So are you an artist or a hack? Sounds like you're an artist. Not me.
I'll take hack if the day rate is higher and it's an amicable team. Even on my own recreational projects I don't want to waste time in post or on set. But kudos to people on both sides. Just because I don't have the finances or financial freedom to up my game doesn't mean I don't want to. Artists and hacks both have valid motivations, and even Spielberg money won't bridge that gap. Good luck convincing anyone to switch sides because they won't easily....
The A6300 probably has a sharper image than the Alexa 65, forget a Canon dSLR. If what you're after is technical excellence you've found it. Sure there's tons of skew, it breaks down on set, and the color is hideous unless you control it carefully–but the resolution is breathtaking and with enough patience and care in lighting you can work around the rest. But some of us are broke and need that paycheck. And worse yet we're lazy. Living wage is $80k/year in my market. Once that's paid for, I'll consider trading up. For now... if it pays, that's what counts.
So I salute the 80D guys. I even want one because it seems so easy to use I can save on crew and pay myself more. But I also think it's sort of criminal that we still put up with such a soft picture, and that Canon won't offer more. All I need is GH2 sharpness and 80D everything else and I'm sold.
Weird... really weird... that that isn't available even now. It should be.

Much Canon bashing here. Why? Go buy something else if you hate Canon. I for one will be picking up a 1DX Mk II. If it's horrible, I will sell it. But most likely it's going to be with me for a few years. Sony's are obsolete  in six months... Well resale value is anyway. That's why I get my monies worth out of them, and then sell and get the next model. Relax. 
PS: I also bet AR will be getting a 1DX MkII within the year;-)

Didn't you just buy a XC10? I think you bad mouth Canon to push the prices down so you can buy them on the cheap
I'd place money on you owning a 1D-X II within the year!

Man, I totally disagree. A good Cinematographer/shooter/DP/whatever you want to call them can make an ordinary shot look nice. A nice camera can help them, sure, but it's the guy behind the camera at the end of the day.
I've seen some absolute sh*t out of Alexas, REDs, F55s, C300s etc. I've seen horrendously noisy RED and Alexa footage. I've seen Alexas exposed incorrectly so as to massively reduce its dynamic range. I've seen people suffer from IR contamination because they don't know what they're doing. 
I watched footage from a very seasoned DP when the RED Dragon came out - and was amazed at how noisy the red channel was. He hadn't used the camera before, and wasn't aware that the red channel was going to get that noisy, so couldn't compensate. In the grade, they de-noised it. But you're talking about a RED Dragon being operated by a seasoned DP and there was still this ugly red noise.
I've also seen some amazing stuff out of all of those cameras. I've seen noiseless RED footage and Alexa footage, after a bit of post-processing, and careful exposure.
I've had the simple fact that it's not the camera, it's the person re-enforced so many times through my own experiences, and I think a lot of the time, people would be better off learning more about exposure, lighting, lighting ratios, metering etc. etc. than trying to find which new camera will finally make their footage look like a Hollywood movie..
--
The 80D is not great for video, but it will probably be popular in the market it's aimed at. I think Canon knows 'serious hobbyists' are a market that have already moved off Canon - and who knows, maybe they haven't seen a huge effective decrease in sales for this particular series.
I do think there's merit in comparing similarly priced cameras, especially for video - as this forum is tailored to that specific market, and it is pertinent to point out Canon's 'failings' (for lack of a better term - market choices could be another). 
But that doesn't mean the 80D can't be a capable camera in the right hands. Get informed and make an informed decision. A different camera is probably going to give you better quality, but hey - if you want to deal with some of the issues outlined here, that's your prerogative. No camera is perfect, so you'll always have your own preferences and compromises. If you need that Dual Pixel AF, and need AF with your Canon lenses, and you can't spend heaps of money... maybe it's the camera for you

I was about to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then the other comment just below yours made it pretty clear. 

This thread is now 20% facts. 30% misinformation and 50% "Waghh! Why won't canon put their 4K cinema tech in a camera for $500 bucks just for me." Gotta love the Internet.
I've had the 80D nearly two weeks now. It's fine. Video quality is actually improved regarding moire as has been mentioned in countless reviews but nobody wants to hear that. 
I noticed Andrew didn't reply to my mention of him bashing the XC10 on release and now buying one months later. So I figure if we fast forward a year he'll buy an 80D and label that a 'cinema dark horse' too.  

I rest my case.

I'm on a film festival committee.  Trust me when I say almost all indy movies look really good these days.  IQ looks on par with just about anything.  Even work that has limited dynamic range still looks pretty impressive.
As for all the other stuff that's actually more important in making a narrative film... well, not so much.
So, if you think what camera you're shooting with is what's holding you back.  IMHO, you're wrong.  So, you pick up and use what you're going to pick up and use.  That's it.  Stop thinking about the limitations of it.  You made the choice, move on.  Now, make smart lighting decisions.  Get a good audio guy (for god's sake please do this), concentrate on telling a good story, and find some actors that can actually do so.
Trust me, no one's going to give two shit(es) if you're dynamic range in 10 stops or 13.  Your skin tone looks a little goofy?  Oh well, I forgive you if you're showing me some interesting characters on screen.

You should have read this post first. This guy says he won't be getting one because it offers "flat looking clinical images".. 
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/canon-xc10-should-you-buy-one/

You should have read this post first. This guy says he won't be getting one because it offers "flat looking clinical images".. 
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/canon-xc10-should-you-buy-one/

You should have read this post first. This guy says he won't be getting one because it offers "flat looking clinical images".. 
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/canon-xc10-should-you-buy-one/

Hi, Andrew!  With such an hate to Canon, you must change the name of you site... QUICKLY!   LoL!  What is behind it ?... Do you know any REAL PERFECT CAMERA? If so, tell us, please. Did you know Arri Alexa or Red or Black Magic or Pana Varicam or something like that has also their own flaws?...  Have you already heard something about importance of MAN behind the Camera?  Come on, let's Make Movies and forget pixel-peepers analisys with much less relevance than colour of our caps !...

I've used auto focus when appropriate for the last 15yrs in everything from independent films to broadcast work to corporate. I'm sure the internet would say I'm not professional. I use whatever tools I have to make my job easier and concentrate on the creative side of things. That's what it's all about right? 

Everyone is going to be a bit biased toward what they own or choose to use because it took all their research and money to get to that decision (plus the additional time and expense of buying and selling and renting and demoing everything under the sun before making the right decision). But while everyone's choice is usually eventually right for their needs–it gets pretty exhausting deluding yourself and going down the wrong path–many cameramen will then embrace the strengths of their given instrument the more they use it and their bias will only extend as their needs are changed by their choices, rather than the other way around. If you've got an A7S you're gonna shoot low light; if you've got a Dragon you definitely won't.
There are a lot of talented guitarists, each using and loving completely different guitars, and to what extent choice informed aptitude and aptitude informed choice is debatable there, too. It goes both ways. Causation, correlation, and whatnot.
I think the only mistake is believing everyone shares your needs and your taste (and your finances). I like just about everything if it's done well, maybe it's a lack of cultivated taste, so it's easy for me to say "do your thing," but I also think everyone is going to do their thing anyway so being too set in your beliefs won't help unless you're making your own decisions (which you don't need a forum to make). No one else's needs are your own, so every recommendation is going to vary.
You seem like someone who is very thoughtful but also opinionated, and it's good to think before drawing a conclusion. But don't be too quick to dismiss those who form their opinions intuitively rather than intellectually. A lot of the greatest filmmakers operate that way when picking coverage, directing performance, etc.–choices far more important than codec. I think Paul McCartney never learned to read music. Bias is good, it shows intelligence. Intransigence isn't, it reveals solipsism.

This forum is all about filming & so the 80D offers absolutely nothing new - we all know this and there are far better options out there for video, at a cheaper price. You can buy a secondhand T2i for £190 (30k shutter count), but not everyone wants to do this - they want something new.
But as its been said, time & time again, Canon make photography cameras with video bolted on. If you want to film something, then they have the C series (still 8-bit, which beggers belief in this day & age), so they are never going to release something that steps all over their other camera lines - it would be absolutely crazy!
The one thing Canon has going for them is that they are a well known brand - their colour science is great & their cameras just work straight out of the box. People are going to buy the 80D regardless of what people say - you stick with a trusted brand, because they are a trusted brand. Look at Kendy Ty, when he moved away from the T2i, he upgraded to a 5D! He could have gone to so many other makes of camera, but stuck with Canon.
The Moire & Aliasing debate is only cared about by us - there are so many Films/TV series that have it. Try telling someone you know, who is clueless about camera tech, about M&A and they just won't have a clue about what you're on about - they don't notice it or care. The thing i'm finding funny at the moment is the absolute lack of BMMCC footage out there - strange, no?

These Canon 'hate rants' have to be for traffic right? Meanwhile the 6300 overheats and is useless for production work. there is no perfect camera. 
I got my 80D on Tuesday and just finished my first shoot with. It looks great. No, it's not an FS7 (we have one of those in the office). But for the price and reliability it's fine. I've produced about 150+ videos with my 70D since its launch and will no doubt go on to do the same with this 80D. 

These Canon 'hate rants' have to be for traffic right? Meanwhile the 6300 overheats and is useless for production work. there is no perfect camera. 
I got my 80D on Tuesday and just finished my first shoot with. It looks great. No, it's not an FS7 (we have one of those in the office). But for the price and reliability it's fine. I've produced about 150+ videos with my 70D since its launch and will no doubt go on to do the same with this 80D. 

The "tweaking the ear of a hamster" analogy made me laugh.