BenEricson

The C70 is a great image. In the right setting, it definitely looks great. Arri beat it in skin texture, color detail in the shadows, over exposure, color separation, etc. I’ve shot very consistently with the Canon C300 Mk2 for the last 5 years. The C70 is such a close image. I’m sure the OG C300ii would feel very close to the Alexa as well. The DGO sensor is great and all, but the C300 Mk3 / C70 is also 5 years newer than the C300 Mk2. I’m honestly a bit underwhelmed if anything. It’s just so similar. Cleaner... but again, it’s 5 years newer. Things like false color, better auto focus, long GOP, cleaner C-Log2, 4K/60p are all things that impress me more than the DGO sensor. I’ve shot projects where I used the C70 and C300ii next to each other for interviews. For better or for worse, I very much doubt anyone could tell the difference, even when looking at the raw source material. The highlights are great on the C70, but anything pointed into the sun sucks. You get the clipping blob in really bright sources or the sun. Once you see it, you know what to look for and it is always there. Pocket 6K probably does it worse. Komodo a little better. Film handles it by far the best. Ive said this before... but the Long GOP 4k codec on the C70 is so great. You get a cleaner, sharper image than the older generation Canon cameras and it looks really great. The files are also almost 3x as small. I’m interested to see what effect the CRL files will have on the image. If the files are even a little sharper and just a bit noisier / textured, that would be great.

Maybe it has to do with the high resolution / noise reduction / skin softening. I just get iPhone vibes with the whole color pallet and texture.

It actually is only 640mbps vs 410mbps. (I think that's the rate spec.) Pretty hopeful it'll do okay on the M1 laptops.

I completely agree. I can tell the difference by the way shots settle on the Komodo or Film. It just looks different. The sway is different. I'm just saying, the jello goes beyond the average "motion cadence" discussion. This was an artifact I have never seen on the bigger Canon Cinema cameras. This was either due to the weight, or the Long GOP compression... Or maybe both. Reminded me of the t2i. It would be fun to shoot a high motion scene on both cameras and look at the differences. Maybe I will do that sometime.

Pretty positive this is due to noise reduction. If raw has "more noise," then there will certainly be more texture and gradation. The Komodo can be REALLY noisy if exposed poorly, but it also has more detail and color. The benefit of the Canon is that it is basically dummy proof. It looks good in 95 percent of situations. You certainly don't need any post noise reduction. I'm not completely sure what this means. Maybe this is a way to get the noise reduction fully removed from the camera. Record in the raw and just use the 10 bit files without the NR? Exactly. Or 1DC.

Agreed. The global shutter kills it. I've seen some crazy jello in 60fps on the C70. I think this might be partially due to Long GOP compression only... Interesting... I think the C70 suffers most in the highlights. The "sun blob" on most digital cameras is very much there. Remember though, there will be added noise in the shadows due to the raw codec. No grading needed. Wide DR is still a profile that needs some grading. Those profiles also look really nice in lowlight settings, (ISO 5000 etc.) There is really no need to save the detail in the blacks or the highlights. It reduces the noise and time in post. The REC.709 non Wide DR on the Canon C70 is really really bad in my experience. Wide DR is great. I just think for baked in profiles, those will be clutch for some jobs.

Yeah, but he's not even using the EVF when shooting at eye level... Amateur hour. He's doing the camera a disservice.

Look at how this idiot is shooting though... There is literally an electronic EVF. Using that alone would make footage probably twice as smooth. EVF with any IS lens would be totally fine. I've done it with my C70. The main issue is lack of EVF for stability on the C70.

I just don't think the Canon Cinema cameras are there in terms of skin tone, color depth, and dynamic range. Don't get me wrong, it looks great... But they're kind of cheating the skin tones. There's this kind of clay look, similar to the processing the iPhone does. I own the C70 and I notice this too. This is great for a lot of applications, but even with "8k raw" this is still the same image since the C300 Mkii. It is not leaps and bounds better. That being said, eye tracking, 10 bit internal, dual ISO, full frame sensor. All of this is incredible to have. I think people need to pick the camera that makes sense for their shooting style. This is a killer gimbal or second camera. Obviously. The sun clips the same as it has since... probably any c-log on any Canon EOS camera.

The notable updates. - The ability to record 10 bit XF-AVC HD + Raw at the same time. Very cool. - Added Time-Lapse recording. - Added EOS Standard and EOS Neutral. Also very cool. I've been bummed since the beginning that they removed these.

I would just think if the project is that important, why not spend the money and go with a more suited camera system? The Alexa's 444 ProRes files likely look much better and will save time and money in post. Maybe even the RED saves you money because of the editing speed. End of the day... If you want the best image quality, you'll have to deal with a painful work flow. The joy of the Canon Cinema Cameras for me is the ease of use. All around.

This isn't really practical though... I'm talking about Premiere Pro, 3/4 tracks of video, multi camera etc. At least the Komodo will easily cut in premiere. Just curious, what kind of content do you shoot with CRL and why? I really only use the Canon Cinema cameras for corporate work, doc projects, interviews, etc. Anything higher end is probably Red and I do a bunch of personal projects on film. I just don't see RAW video on the C70 to be totally transformative to the camera. Maybe I am wrong? If it removes some of the plastic look and feel of the Canon cameras, that would be awesome. When I was pretty inexperienced back in 2014, I shot a ton of RAW video on the original black magic pocket. I quickly realized that the magic of that camera comes from the sensor. You can shoot ProRes and get nearly the same images, but with a much easier work flow. It is nearly impossible to tell the difference in a final edit. Of course, this all depends on the setting etc.

With the external Pix recorder, (like the one above) and the 444 model, it possible to record 12 bit 444 ProRes files. I’m not sure if this works in 60p though. Honestly though, the color depth on the F3 is fantastic. I was always super impressed with the 10 bit ProRes files.

interesting! Okay thanks for clearing that up. Yes. You’re right. They’re also doing a lot of noise removal etc. It is a really clean image. Maybe raw improves things. Watch some 4k uploads on Vimeo of the Komodo and then watch some stuff with the C70. There is a huge difference in sharpness and color depth with the red. I suppose this is like the iPhone though. The good and bad is the processing. The processing hides noise and artifacts, but can remove detail etc. Ultimately, the processing an iPhone does, is optimal in most scenarios. I probably should back up on what I said about Canon Raw Lite. I don’t have any experience with the codec but have some second hand experience. My very talented editor friend was complaining about how ridiculously slow the files were editing. (30 min to import an hour long interview.) I recommended re-compressing the CRL files to 12 bit 444 ProRes. That seemed to be a solid work around. Again, maybe the work flow gets better / smoother as premiere releases updates. A free added feature is always welcomed. You’re right though, they just want to sell units and compete with the Komodo / Pocket 6K.

The C70 uses SDXC cards. The write speed maxes out at 300mbps... I really wish they had went Cfast 2.0 or even the OG like the Komodo.

Works great for me on a Mac Pro / SSD in premiere. C70 files? Is it Raw Lite? That codec sucks so bad. I’ve never heard of anyone using it, unless they’re capturing in RawLite and converting to ProRes 12 bit 444. One of the best features about the C70 is the amazing Long GOP compression. It is really really impressive. The files are tiny and look amazing. It is very hard to tell the difference. Im also not sure how or why they would create 8k output on those sensors? The reality is that their sensors lack the sharpness of RED or Sony. I would love the ability to run an external recorder and get 12 bit 4K ProRes 444 from the raw signal. I’m not sure if this is possible. The C70 4k looks VERY similar to the C300 mkii. (Which is known for having a softer image.) In fact, those cameras are so similar that they match very very well, but there wasn’t a huge leap in quality... I would even argue some of the older color profiles just looked better. (Log2 BT.709 was removed from the C70 and C300 Mkiiii. In my opinion, it better and easier to grade than Log2 C-Gamut,) in my experience. I will say, the C70 sensor is definitely cleaner in the shadows, especially when shooting Log2... High ISO performance is basically the same but a little worse on the DGO sensor... but again, the difference isn’t HUGE to my eyes.

Wild. The images are so nice. 4K upload on Vimeo holds up in 2022 easily. Really nice. I always loved how clean and balanced the Canon baked in images look. (assuming it is based on the contrast levels.) We've gone through years and years of poorly graded LOG footage... I own the Canon C70. They removed a lot of the nice baked in profiles that existed on the Canon C300 Mkii. I'm convinced the OG C-LOG on these older cameras was better. There's something lacking with the C70. A lot of brown / red images rather than yellow / golden.

Right, but the word cinematographer or DP is really just a fancy name for a camera person. Saying it is “nice videography” sounds like an effort was made to sound condensing. All labels aside. Great camera work. Some of those shots could easily be throw into a feature. I think the Komodo does well with the color depth. It reminds me of the richness nighttime scenes have with 35mm. The A7 Sony stuff didn’t look as good to me.

I don’t think anyone ever said that... I would have to say this is cinematography, though. She’s using a particular vintage lens, camera, filtration, image processing, and shooting at particular time of day and weather conditions all to get that look. Everyone acting like this is super easy. You’re all literally sleeping and she’s out shooting. 🤷🏼‍♂️ “Oh I could do this for sure. It’s not that good. Nice video.” Weird.

I just like the color. The halation and especially the grain aren't really my thing.

Really cinematic stuff. I own the Red Komodo and the Canon C70. This camera honestly produces a nicer image in a lot of ways. It's really wild.

How to with John Wilson is shot with that camera. It definitely has a video look, especially in that show. It is certainly a deal. Sony cameras depreciate like no other.

Fair. He does. I guess my point is that driving around all night capturing footage alone can be challenging. Most people love the safety and convenience of the daylight hours.

I disagree. Average for who? A experienced filmmaker? YouTuber? Give 100 people the same camera setup and have them shoot locked off shots, I promise you it won't look this good. At least half of those 100 would be shooting ducks in a park like Philip Bloom.

I think I’ve seen aliasing on a brick wall shooting 60p to an external recorder. Real world use, not sure I’ve ever seen it.