M Carter

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

Would also love to auto whitebalance and then be able to lock it in

By "lock it in" do you mean save it as a preset? I've shot with Panasonic sorta-broadcast video cameras (AC and DVX series) which can save one or two, and my Nikon DSLRs can save about as many as you want (naming them is an issue...) My NX1 can't however. Or do you mean have it not shift or drift or something?

As far as I'm aware, manually white balancing a camera changes the color on two axis - blue/orange and magenta/green. Similar to using CTO or CTB and plus- or minus-green.

Manually white balance a still and open the raw image, and you'll see (via the raw sliders) how much correction was used. Or shooting a still in a situation with imperfect WB and then setting white balance in the Raw converter will show you how far the color axis had to be changed to get the color accurate.

I'd like a camera to show me those numbers when I manually white balance. Often I'm shooting in offices with modern flo fixtures, which are usually around 3700k with a lot of green. if I have a pre-pro chance, I can shoot the place with a raw stills camera and figure exactly what flos (most of my flos need 1/4 CTB and 1/8 -green to get a clean 5200k) and HMIs need gel-wise so the office fixtures look natural and function as fill. It looks odd to the client when I'm putting orange and green gels on my lights, but it sure is nice in post.

I've found if the RAW slider is halfway up for magenta, that usually equates to about a half minus green, and so on. Color temp is more of a sliding scale than linear, but it can usually be sussed out quickly.

This wouldn't be an earth-shaking feature but would sure be handy. Modern cameras are pretty decent color meters when you think of it - would be nice to have that data presented somewhere in the interface - since it's already in the camera.

12 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Hopefully the lens breathing problem of 50-100mm f1.8 has been addressed?

Not likely - that's a function of the optics, not of replacing the rubber ring with a gear. Even changing the ratio to get a longer throw won't affect how the image responds to focus changes. 

Great thread title, I was expecting a bankruptcy PR release. The drama!!!

On August 26, 2016 at 5:59 PM, The Chris said:

Geez, that's a lot of stuff to store. Most of my projects will fit on a 64 or 128gb flash drive - which is my preferred archival medium. I'm not into endlessly replacing spinning platters, but much like Axel, I really don't have many pieces I have to keep forever. I have a bunch of stock footage type b-roll, but little else. I do have a safe deposit box with a growing number of thumb drives though.

I've read some photographers say they never delete any raw file. I really don't see the point as I'm always generating enough new content that I'll never re-edit old files. One I finish an edit I'm happy with, it goes to the cloud, into a finished folder on my external array and the current archival drive. Some get printed, the rest are forgotten in folders on my drives that I rarely go back to. Seems silly at times. It a viscous cycle. 

Maybe so, but I do a lot of B2b corporate stuff, which may be half-hour interviews cut to a minute or two, motion graphics, animation, etc. I do a lot of animation (which I use mostly AE for) so there are folders full of image bits and pieces, storyboards. Average final gig folder is anywhere from 60MB to 200MB, and I do need to keep every last little bit, and keep the folder structure preserved. ProRes does keep my overall projects size a good deal larger, but the benefits outweigh that in my case, and it would really take something amazing for me to drop ProRes as my default across the board.

I also do some master-planned community stuff, but these are sometimes 10-year to 15-year sales spans over hundreds of acres, and we pick up stuff again and again. So keeping track of things is critical, and I need to get to 'em fast sometimes. So spinning drives and a dock are optimal, with text or excel files for content lists. So I can search a folder full of text files (drive1.txt, drive2.txt and so on - I'm up to drive 18 now I think) to find the file with the disc contents and grab the drive.

On August 26, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Axel said:

I wonder why you then don't buy a Pegasus R6 or R8. They are getting faster the bigger they are.

@Mat Mayer

Agreed.

I don't like the idea of all that archived work being powered-up and live. Since all discs eventually die, I try to keep them sealed in drive boxes and not run them unless needed. if I had a pile of big drives always spinning, that could be 10TB or something... and then I'd need 10TB of constant backup. 4TB is a good size for me right now, a 2x2TB Tbolt2 RAID and a 4TB USB external for backup. I generally have the RAID around half full, but if I get buried in a lot of projects-that-refuse-to-die, I have some headroom. Main thing for me is to try to archive in 500MB or so amounts, which is more time-manageable. When the finder says "Estimated time: 9 hours", that's worrisome - our 'hood was built in the 20's and if there's a thundercloud ten miles away, the power goes out (they've improved that now). Backup batteries only last so long and I have a lot of stuff plugged into the UPS.

Again, these sorts of workflows are insanely unique to the freelancer or mega-huge effects shop or first-year DSLR shooter, and every case is probably different. A HUGE driver for me is cost and ROI - I'n in an enviable position of mostly working on fun stuff for good, long-term clients and I don't have to go out and beat the bushes every week - but that means I don't work some days at all. It's interesting to me to read the different solutions people use.

Do you really, really need 4K for a dramady? I'd say go for the most luscious, natural, emotion-grabbing look you can get. 

I'd see 4K if you had lots of effects work or knew you were going to reframe like crazy. I don't know that it's necessary when you can get a beautiful look from a used BM cinema cam, unless you have some sort of contract specifying a large-frame delivery.

The 35-70 2.8 AF was a top-line pro Nikkor back in the day and they're reasonable and have an aperture ring. Just have to watch the veiling flare on those, use a good hood and make sure your copy doesn't have haze internally. I shot several music videos with that lens. Pro-build, all metal, 2.8 all the way through.

I really liked it for stylish music vids - I could use the top flag on my matte box to dial in (or out) flare from visible lights, had a cool look. Replace with the 28-70 2.8 though.

On August 25, 2016 at 3:03 AM, Axel said:

I consider most original footage (aside that from BM cameras, ProResHQ or Raw) to be "small". For archiving, I use FCP X camera archives, which back-up the whole cards prior to import.

I think you're misreading what I mean by "Archiving". Sure, original card is in there, and the edit files. And the 1080 and 4K prores versions of everything, the after effects files and renders, the stills, the audio, the protools folder with audio sweetens or repairs or edits or music, all the client notes, storyboards, and edits, the bid, the revises to the bid, the script and revisions, reference images, edits from first pass to final, and Flash or Carrara animations and their associated image sequence folders... I mean, the whole freakin' job, with the entire folder structure preserved. 

100-200GB folders are the norm, but I just archived a 1.2 terrabyte job (6 or 7 shoot days, primarily interviews and b-roll, and tons of graphics). I had several brand new 1TB drives, tried like hell to prune that folder down. I generally archive when my 4TB RAID gets over half full, if possible. As I mentioned earlier, this can be 5-10 hours of copying and file managing. Doesn't shut the computer down, just makes it slower, so I try to do it overnight or on a weekend... except I seem to work a lot of weekends...

I just convert everything to ProRes from the start though, render everything from AE as prores (unless I need an alpha channel) and generally do image sequences from other programs and convert those to prores if needed. It takes very little time (I usually do it while I'm checking cameras and gear back in) but saves me a lot of hassle down the road. Disk space is cheap.

Reading Andrew's article - it seemed to suggest the sensor is APS-C/Super 35 - or did he mean "with the speedbooster".

It would be really REALLY cool if Panasonic had a doubled-the-bitrate H265 option in there. H265 turned out to be a great feature in the NX, once the world caught up.

On August 22, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Axel said:

Did you try the Library Manager? 

That's not the issue for me as far as backups and archiving. Mainly making sure I have a 1 and 2TB raw drive on hand when my RAID fills up, being a little more aggressive about trashing things that don't need to exist (I archive to raw drives with a USB 3 dock). I don't deliver or edit 4K, but I do a lot of 4K on a 1080 timeline, so it's not unusual for a longer-term project folder to hit 1TB... and that's about 6 hours to copy to an archive, test the archive, and delete from the RAID and the backup. So I try not to let archiving backlog as much as I used to. Then again, nothing sucks like archiving and then the client calls and says "so and so's title just changed, can you do a new edit?" Luckily, I use a dock and raw drives so I can do quick things right off the archive, but I try not to use those discs much.

On August 22, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Axel said:

Reading this thread, I realize I made a mistake with my current system. I bought the 256 flash version because that's enough for the system (and crazy fast too) and because I thought, well, people are doing this with the cylinder, it must work.

I did the same. I just bought one of these since I came from a Pro Tower internal RAID. Seamless and reasonably fast (300mb/s or so), $300. You can get a USB 3 RAID box for dual SSDs even cheaper, though drive costs are an issue. I have 7200 RPM spinners in this, 2TB each for a total 4TB working space. I have a 4TB drive in a USB 3 enclosure for backup at night. It's a great product and far better reviewed than the OSC/MacSales raid. Quiet, too. I have no issues with FCPX or After Effects (though I use an SSD for AE scratch files).

I've never wanted anything but my apps, email, and billing on the internal drive. And I still think the Cylinder is a fail as far as no drive bays and relying on USB and Tbolt (and the iMac is no answer to that). But Apple always knows better than us, right?

On August 22, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Kisaha said:

Rode is good for low budget equipment but in the end you get what you pay for, the Rode boompoles and the blimp are the worst I have ever used, ...

Not my experience with the blimp. I rarely swap mics with it, but I don't find that to be a hassle, and it's as quiet as one could expect in normal wind conditions. Everything stays nice & tight with it (you have to learn to tighten the oddball shockmount swivel). Rubber bands have held up for years now, too.

On August 19, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Axel said:

I wouldn't. With 4k, you need more storage. My Pegasus is no bottleneck, though it only reaches 500 MB/s read speed. I've seen a test with 8, 16, 24 and 32 GB RAM on the maxed-out iMac. Didn't make much of a difference with FCP X. Slightly faster with 16GB, the sweet spot. FCP X is not as ram-hungry as Adobe. CPU and GPU are crucial. You can set free a lot of CPU performance with optimized media. Since those eat more space, you need it external. Big and fast enough TB drives are the way to go. With redundant arrays you need no extra backups.

I am finding drive speed to be less important for FCPX. But After Effects still seems to need the basic Adobe recommendation - app on a fast boot drive, scratch disk on the fastest shizz ya got, footage and content on a fast drive. As I migrated from the tower to the cylinder, I tested lots of stuff, and that's still the way to go with AE.

My first step for any gig is "everything gets pro-res'd". Since shooting 4K, I've found a 4TB RAID 0 (and a 4TB single-drive backup that runs at night) has been workable. Biggest issue is the size that job folders can become. Archiving a terrabyte at a time isn't unusual for me, and that takes 6-8 hours to transfer the content. More and more, I'm finding managing my archives and backups takes more planning as file sizes go up.

On August 19, 2016 at 10:52 AM, IronFilm said:

Does your son post under this account too? ;-)

No, but if you ever see me selling an Alexa for $5k, western union only... IT'S HIM!!!

I think their blimp is a very good value. My son bought an Indian blimp for less $$, but it's not as well designed.

Their mics are decent, but moving up to the AT 4053? Haven't looked back.

I agonized over this, got the entry level Mac Pro. I get good Disk Speed tests, about 1000mb/s - all checks green. I really like having a component setup though vs. the all-in-one. 

Thing is, are people putting their apps, footage, and scratch files all on the internal HD? I'm using an external Tbolt2 RAID (2 spinning 7200rpm discs) and a couple cheap USB 3 enclosures with SSDs. At some point I'll probably add a dual SSD raid just for footage and leave Photoshop and IDD stuff on the spinning RAID. Everything is nice & speedy, but with OS X, FCPX just really smokes anyway. I'm getting good render times with After Effects, but Adobe's really dropped the ball with AE performance for some time now.

What really sucks about either solution is the maze of cables and USB 3 hubs. I had 6 drives in my Mac Pro tower. I think the cylinder is a giant fail for high-end creative work (as is the iMac in this regard). Really miss all those raidable drive slots plugged right into the motherboard.

On August 2, 2016 at 0:40 PM, Marco Tecno said:

Yes, nx1 - IS - fantastic, even if you'll find ppl, mostly that never even tested it, who will tell you different things.

Well, as a long-time NX1 shooter, I'll say it's pretty fantastic. You can get a really beautiful, cinematic image with it. It can really, really sing with old lenses - like 60's/70's glass, Canon FL or the various screw-mount stuff, aperture-ring Nikkors (I'd get adapters while they're still around). The native glass seems awfully "clinical" to me. The H265 is a real space-saver - even if you convert to ProRes to edit, you can shoot all day without a ton of cards or SSDs. If you use an external audio recorder and good mics, you can run the camera-out into the NX1 and if you're careful, you can get fine audio without having to synch in post (though I would 100% advise you still record externally too). 

4K is absolutely the shit for reframing or post-stabilizing... but the jello at 4K is abysmal. At 1080, the jello is in the best-in-class range (but it ain't global-shutter class, it's still there). So - handheld or real action stuff, shoot 1080. I only shoot 4K if I know I'll reframe. AF can be useful, but you might test low-level (1/4) diffusion, pro mist or black pro mist, with NX glass. "Iron Man" was shot with 1/4 and 1/2 pro mist (black I think?), and we don't think of it as a "diffused" movie at all.  

Where it fails is where the BMC stuff really kicks in - DR. Doing outdoor work or indoors where you want to hold a sky through windows, you'll need lighting - indoors a 575 HMI par is the bare, bare minimum and a 1200 would do much better. Outdoors, HMI or a very well-executed reflector and scrim setup. That's if it's bright and sunny and you want to hold sky color and detail. And overall, shooting flat with lighting, not camera profiles really helps. Some big, soft fill sources to bring up shadows so you can tamp them back down in post. I've played with the Andrew Reid conversion and luts, but you run the risk of big, chunky, moving noise if you go too far. Get close in-camera. But those issues are the same with most any 8-bit, non-raw camera. You really have to plan for highlights and deep shadows, and I'm a believer in printing out plenty of color reference (send images to a photo print place - have good prints) and attaching to your storyboards, and setting yourself up on set for a successful grade. It's no Alexa.

So Vasile mod is out as far as bitrate, KS is in - where does one find the KS mod with all the instructions, etc? And is it confirmed that Vasile's mod isn't right for upping the bitrate? 

Remember that for the "HBO Special" look, you need at least 2 operators - one to track the comedian and one to get audience responses. You have to quickly ID people that are really cracking up and get a lot of variety of reactions. Just having a static camera on the audience isn't going to be that great. It's good to use a long lens for that and stay out of people's faces, dress in black and stay in the shadows. People can clam up if they feel they're being filmed.

If you have a static camera that's wider getting the stage, shoot 4K and reframe to get a "3rd operator" look if possible.

Man, I think you're SOL on that one - the manfrotto (like most systems) is a dovetail setup. You'd have to grind out the dovetail edge on both sides of the baseplate, and come up with something that clamps down. Or grind a camera plate flat-edged. But then you lose the whole "system" setup, since a modded camera plate would just fall out of any other baseplate.

I've got all kinds of Manfrotto QR - there was a company that made carbon fiber base plates, really lightweight. And there's lots of chinese knockoffs on eBay that are cheaper than the genuine stuff. But the fact that it's a dovetail, I don't know how you'd get around that. I've managed to have every rig let the camera slide off towards the back. I suppose you could attach some sort of top-lift system to the manfrotto camera plate. that's how I mod other tripods, I attach their camera plate to a manfrotto QR system.

The classic, pre-wireless-AF-way - wide lens, f5.6 to f11. Focus in the range your subject will be in (I dunno about the "infinity focus" comment, unless your subject is on the horizon. Why would you set initial focus miles away from your subject?) The wider the lens, the deeper your DOF, and the more you stop down (within bounds of reason - avoid diffraction) the more DOF.  Before you even get the camera on the rig, find out just how much focus range you have (use the EVF, use peaking, move in and out, rehearse the move without the rig) and stay within that range. Getting someone to grab your belt and walk with you (like guiding a blind man) lets your brain stop worrying about tripping, and that person can help keep you in the DOF zone as well, esp. if they're part of the shot rehearsal.

I've had great results with the NX1 and kit lens on AF for doc-style work - but you have to keep the subject in the focus box. And if the subject has dark clothes on, the AF may hunt.

Review every shot before you move on. Something like a 20" HDTV or HDMI computer monitor is a big help here (for playback focus checking). If the monitor doesn't play nice with the camera, try a powered (active) splitter, that will sometimes get the signal through. Keep in mind that if you use a production monitor with peaking - peaking works on playback as well as recording, so you can also use that to check shots (if the peaking is useable).

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

They also had a leap forward in resolution, which could be also what you are noticing.

After years of upgrading D-series bodies, I'm convinced it was the OLPF. I watched resolution go up over time, but the fine-detail level was what really jumped out at me.

From the Amazon product page, questions & answers:

Quote

Zhiyun will release a new model which is suitable for DSLR cameras with 8.8Lb/4KG better loading capacity:) We will sell it right away as soon as we have them.

Nx1 weight with kit lens and battery: 1290g according to Samsung's site. And the 16-50 kit lens has been my favorite for my steadicam. So, 90G overweight. Zhiyun's Amazon comment is that heavier weights affect the lifespan of the motors. Wonder if 90g is a huge difference?

As far as marketing goes - keep in mind one of the issues that likely killed Samsung's NX line - the strap didn't say "Canon" or "Nikon".

I've shot retail product (primarily apparel and jewelry, with various consumer and tech products) for close to 20 years, back to the film days with 4x5" Ektachrome. Done stuff for Neiman-Marcus, JCPenney, Blockbuster video, all sorts of manufacturers and wholesalers, and on and on. My thoughts:

Even if "just for the web", shoot full rez and raw. Doing minor fixes or going pure-white on the BG is easier at big sizes. In your bid, note that you'll shoot full print size and archive for future use. You never know when someone will decide to do a flyer or a print ad. With a modern 20+ MP stills cam, you can shoot for billboards.

Having shift and tilt is nice for product shooting. If this is a one-off deal, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't do as much product as I did in the past and haven't needed it - I still have a big camera stand which to me is more important, esp. in the digital days. Lighting is more important. A soft box, white reflectors, and a7" and 11"  grid head (to "raise" detail in folded soft goods or add sparkle to jewelry) is a basic starting point. If you're doing more of a still-life look or food, grids and even tungsten lights can play a bigger role in sort of a "heightened beauty" look. You really want complete control for each light, either by individual controls or with a symmetrical/asymmetrical pack or nets and ND.

(As for tilt-shift - I've built a tilt rig to use Mamiya 645 lenses on a Nikon camera... still need to get a lens and complete it...)

I'm a Nikon fan for this work, especially since Nikkors can go on all sorts of modern cameras for video, and there are decades of classic glass out there used for someone starting. You don't need AF or OIS for this stuff. I'd look at a used/refurbed D7100 - really great stills image and nice video.

I cite the 7100 since it was the first Nikon to lose the OLPF (low-pass filter). I'd say a camera without OLPF is a primary consideration; as a product and corporate people shooter, it was really a new era in fine detail. To my eyes this was a big game changer - the leap in IQ from the 7000 to the 7100 was pretty astounding to me. (I'm sure there's Canon stuff that's equally good - when Digital first gained acceptance, I delivered many shots from an Olympus P&S for no-rental-budget clients - it was the first full-manual consumer digital with a strobe connection that saved uncompressed TIFFs - six to a card! Each shot took 20 seconds to write to disc... but the IQ was badass). (This when renting a pro digital stills cam was a pricey affair).

There must be a zillion product shooting tutorials on the web - check them out, but avoid any "light-tent" style setups - you do want a sense of directionality to the light, to make things look three dimensional, vs. just-plain-flat.

Film, no photoshop:

Nikon, 50mm lens.

Silly Olympus P&S: