sunyata

ru asking me that? 16bit kills banding for CG and 10bit is good enough for film/video. largely because of, you guessed it, grain.

ha.. "i don't get this place". 
 
as if there was any consensus on this forum.

ha.. "i don't get this place". 
 
as if there was any consensus on this forum.

Interesting discussion with the DP for American Horror Story on how he's using film to do in-camera effects.
 
Technical specs:
 
Arriflex 16 SR2 
Arriflex 16 SR3 
Arriflex 235, Panavision Primo Lenses 
Arriflex 435 Xtreme, Panavision Primo Lenses 
Panavision Panaflex Millennium XL2, Panavision Primo, PCZ and Angenieux Optimo Lenses
 
Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format)
 

The directors comment on his choice of D.P. Dion Beebe (Memoirs of a Geisha):
 
"I didn’t want it to look like one of those plastic-looking video-game movies that Hollywood loves to release over the summer. I wanted to set it apart from the pack and Dion’s style is far more evocative of the classic war movies that I love".
 
POST: Did you shoot film or digital? LIMAN: “Film, which was very exciting for me as I wasn’t sure I’d ever get that chance again.†  http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2014/June-1-2014/Directors-Chair-Doug-Liman-Edge-of-Tomorrow.aspx

The directors comment on his choice of D.P. Dion Beebe (Memoirs of a Geisha):
 
"I didn’t want it to look like one of those plastic-looking video-game movies that Hollywood loves to release over the summer. I wanted to set it apart from the pack and Dion’s style is far more evocative of the classic war movies that I love".
 
POST: Did you shoot film or digital? LIMAN: “Film, which was very exciting for me as I wasn’t sure I’d ever get that chance again.†  http://www.postmagazine.com/Publications/Post-Magazine/2014/June-1-2014/Directors-Chair-Doug-Liman-Edge-of-Tomorrow.aspx

Tom Cruise's new movie is out.  For those interested, check out the camera man's rig.
 
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2594688768/tt1631867?ref_=ttmd_md_pv
 
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3836202752/tt1631867?ref_=ttmd_md_pv
 
And of course the cameras specs:
 
Arriflex 235, Panavision G-Series Lenses 
Arriflex 435, Panavision G-Series Lenses 
Panavision Panaflex Millennium XL2, Panavision G-Series, ATZ and AWZ2 Lenses 
Panavision Panaflex Platinum, Panavision G-Series, ATZ and AWZ2 Lenses

Canon is the honey badger of the DSLR companies.. it just does not give a ....

jcs-
 
Yes but, as per the title of this thread, people are confused at to whether or not you can convert 4k 8bit 4:2:0 to 2k 10bit 4:4:4 and get the grading and smoothness of detail that 10bit acquisition can give. They "want to get to the bottom of it", which I appreciate. By bringing up adding noise to reduce banding, algorithms for dither, the limitation of what we see with 8bit monitors (which makes it seem irrelevant for anyone to want anything higher than 8bit unless you're viewing on a 10bit monitor) and the fact that the chromatic channels don't add up to 10bit 4:4:4, although I don't doubt you mean well, you've helped to confuse the issue even more. Andrew is now posting an article on how to "cure banding", almost within minutes of learning that the technique exists. 
 
We should really just stay focused on the flaws in the bits to pixels = depth workflow. I think you understand it's fundamental flaw, that it does not represent the scene more accurately or improve stops that you can push before you see artifacts. 
 
Can we just agree that all the conversion from 4k to 2k does is anti-alias and shrink?
 
Then the discussion about dithering algos and 8bit monitors can be an aside. 
 
I have my thoughts about all that but I don't want to get off topic. 

Honoring My Father is the story behind Keith Kadoyama attending the Lantern Floating Ceremony every year. The Lantern Floating Ceremony honors our loved ones who have passed away. Keith honors his father Mitsuo Kadoyama, and he tells his story. Thanks to my good friend Keith for doing this.  I conceived of the idea when I saw the announcement just 2 days before, and I'm glad he was up for the challenge.  I shot all of this myself, so it was a lot of hard work!
 

 
Shot on a Panasonic GH4, 4K with Panasonic LUMIX 12-35mm X lens and SLR Magic Anamorphot and Tiffen Vari-ND Filter
GH4 shot with CinelikeD Contrast -2, Sharpness -5, Noise Reduction -5, Saturation 0, Hue 0
Master Pedestal +15, Highlight -4, Shadow +3, 0-255
F2.8, 1/50 sec, ISO 200 w Vari-ND, ISO 800 without
Interview Audio: Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic with Rode Blimp on a Tascam DR-60D
Music by Escape Club - "I'll Be There"
 

I'll be brutally honest here, I started watching this critique and stopped when I realized it was "The Dark Night". This is like having Werner Herzog talk about Tansformers 3.
 
If you want to see a movie that uses the long take to full effect, check out Abbas Kiarostami's "Certified Copy", or his newer "Like Someone in Love".

I'd like to see her blending with dinosaurs!

Animated color correction cheat sheet using plot scanlines..
 
This source footage was shot on Arri Alexa and taken off the 2k 10bit 4:2:2 master. For their surveillance footage they used:
 
Canon 7D, GoPro HD Hero, Sony PMW-EX1
 

So you're using the BMPCC at 00:00:11, 00:00:14, 00:00:21 etc, with the back-lighting shots? Nice work!

There is one workaround to avoid the transcoding process to ProRes - however you will not be able to record the original 4K files this way. Record in UltraHD directly to an external recorder like Atomos Ninja Blade. Set HDMI output to 10bit, you will not be able to record internally, but it will stream a very beautiful 10 bit 1080 24p stream directly to your recorder, far sharper and with less aliasing than the internal 1080p mode. However there is an issue with especially 50Hz (and some 60Hz modes), since Ninja Blade will only record a 1080i stream in AVCHD mode. To take advantage of full progressive you need to go into 24Hz. 

If you pause the test I posted when it gets to 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 you can compare..
 
It also covers the reformatting of 4k 8bit to 2k 10bit myth (I'm taking it into float space actually but it's got all the overhead you need to test the theory). You won't see a noticeable difference in "workability" of the 4k after it has been reformatted to 2k HD in float space. 
 
I think a lot of the confusion is really coming from the camera companies that sometimes give you the pertinent info, and other times they leave it out while hyping things like pixel count. I've noticed they also are guilty of mixing terms, like "log" and "dynamic range" in their specs.
 
i.e. You can't have "log" gamma in integer 8bit space, so calling your gamma profile sLog is a little confusing. Another good one, they seem to have propagated the belief that dynamic range is the "min" and "max" luma values, at least I've heard it described that way on blogs.. which would mean 0 black to 3 (which would be pure white) in a 2bit file is wide dynamic range.
 
I got one more! They also have convinced people that low contrast is the "film look", whatever that means. This is the most confusing one. Movies don't look low contrast when projected (movies like Transformers, LOTR are over saturated and high contrast).. it's a pipeline issue only to preserve film gamma and it really requires 10bit log to equal film print density, everything else is just low contrast, so they should call it that.

DR is worthless if you have to put it into 255 values (8bit), if you shoot flat = banding, if you shoot with a normal tone curve=low DR. Anyway, that doesn't mean the a7s will be terrible.

for the OP.... :D
"People Attach More Value to Items that they Own
# Group 1: shown an assortment of random, trinket objects: rubber bands, paper clips, beer cozy, post-it notes, etc. They were asked to value each objectall were roughly valued the same. # Group 2: shown the same objects, but were told that they could keep the beer cozy after the experiment. The value of the cozy doubled for these respondents.

No need to pay, I'd be happy to give you some footage once I get less busy. I'm curious to see your results as well.

That would be awesome, I need a camera for practical effects, your ungraded footage would be a really good test. I'd be willing to buy it too, with no intention to reproduce or use in any way, other than just testing in different grading tools, if that helps.  Thanks.

This is some of the best and most useful footage for evaluating the quality of this camera that I've seen so far. Any possibility of a download option? I'd love to test the source ungraded footage, but I certainly understand if you want to keep it private. 
 
Basically, if I got your 4k files that were recorded internally, converted them to HD float and could push them in lustre or Resolve w/o seeing heavy artifacts, especially in the shots that seem to have a full range of luma, from the long black shadows in those trees, to the white snow, I'm gonna put this camera back in the queue and you've erased my concerns. 
 
Thanks!

The suits are stupid on the part of labels, because things like lipdubs and so on don't harm revenue, they're free advertising.
 
A person a who re-appropriates a song over some test film is advertising the song, not stealing it. It affect no revenue virtual or otherwise.
 
No one watches that video instead of putting a song on their ipod or music library.
 
Counting "lost" revenue is straight up bulshit. Not every theif of digital, infinitely copyable goods is a potential purchaser, not every person who watched the video would buy the song. It's a moronic way to measure losses. You can't lose what doesn't exist.
 
The YouTube plan was far better, adding a purchase link, and allows videos to sell the original, turning it into revenue generating free advertising.
 
Using an arbitration bot to delete video will send a lot of users packing.
 
It is literally finding everyone guilty until proven innocent, and is a spineless move.

Musicians and writers often do get ripped off by publishers.  That's why more and more of them are getting into self-publishing.

Well, if you guys are serious about supporting artists, don't shed a tear for the RIAA and the music industry, support websites like "bandcamp.com" where artists can sell directly to you. They aren't losing money because of Vimeo, that's just free promotion, they're losing money because of offshore file upload websites and the music blogs that link to them.
 
If I can, I like to buy directly from the artists, I try to do that at live events for example (they sell cd's at live shows because they actually see the money). It's not just free downloads that are stealing from musicians, it's the labels and their managers too.

What the hell is going on here? I've totally lost track. Bring back film!