Juank

I have the OG S5 I could sell/move to C camera and make room for a LUMIX FX3 style camera. However if it’s priced around the S1Rii I may still go for that. After 4k 120p uncropped and a faster readout speed, we’re really running out of things to complain about. What will people even argue about on YouTube anymore?
LX3? They should troll Sony with that model number. 

I thought at the time and still do, that the S1Rii was and is a 50:50 hybrid in every sense of the word.
Not the absolute cutting edge for video and nor is it for stills, but one of the best to date for both.
I will be interested of course in what this new more video-centric thing may be, plus anything/everything else and shall talk about it as so many of us do, but as there is nothing I am especially looking for...

Panasonic uses NR on still RAW in a still oriented camera, let alone video.

Reviewers bash Nikon for its h.265 implementation that doesn't allow to disable NR, but say nothing when Canon/Panasonic doesn't allow to disable it on RAW! 

Indeed, it's also why I kept my pre-order, the files from the S1RII look much better in 4K than on the S5II.
I agree about the Z6III, and the IBIS looks really better on the S1RII too.
Anyway it seems some people totally missed my point, of course most clients don't see the difference but if you want the best quality, by example to extract stills or viewing your footage on a big screen, even for family stuff, the S5 and S1 internal recording is just much better than on the S5II. I loved Panasonic before the S5II because their camera had a video IQ very close to stills. 
But if the aim is to shoot only for clients (and most of them can't see a difference between 2k and 4k resolution), yes the S5II is clearly the better choice, especially because of the much better AF and IBIS in video.
 

Exactly...
Dissecting every little stat on paper and arguing in YouTube comments over various cameras is one thing... but there's something to be said for mastering your craft and learning your tools. I research the shit out of gear and then after I pull the trigger on a purchase I rarely look back. I keep my cameras, lenses, lights etc...for YEARS. Really knowing how you can push a camera or other tool while out in the field is a solid skill. I have worked with so many camera ops, even DP's on set who said to me, "Oh, I didn't even know this camera had that mode/function... 
But alternatively, I was working as a 1st AD on a small indie feature a few years back and that DP was really, really good. He was the one person on set who was getting paid full rate. And it was worth paying him with how tight and efficient he was. He also was really good at After Effects and compositing as well as color grading and was going to end up doing that stuff later in post. I'll never forget the lesson I learned on a very full day watching him shoot. He was so efficient with our massive shot list and there were a lot of times we thought we had to go again for third and fourth takes. I would walk over to the director and make sure we were good because I would notice little continuity mistakes or other issues and the DP would always dismiss me. Later at lunch he explained that he knew what we needed and that the background was going to be replaced in post, or he was just going to mask off the extra that walked into the frame etc... So many other inexperienced directors/DP's would have spent hours "getting it right" but been behind all day. So my parallel with the S1Rii here is that I want to be able to put it through its paces and how it will stand up to certain things. I want to know that if I'm shooting an event that I can shoot a wide video clip and know that later I can extract a few cropped stills and it will hold up. Because this is a hybrid camera, I want to really know if it will act like one when pushed. Of course we know it will be fine for most things and the 4k will be great but some of us are looking to push it. 

I hear you for sure. You’re definitely right.
I think the point behind the nitpicking is to figure out where the current gen Lumix bodies stand in comparison to the competition and last gen, including IQ. It’s been a while since they released a pro body like this so it’s good to see where their focus is now in their positioning within the pro market.
Things like downscaling and cropping do factor in to purchase choices just like features, ergonomics, and reliability do. Some want paint brushes. Some want tested utilitarian tools. Some want some balanced mix of both for their money. It may or may not make a difference; some of us just want to know what’s happening under the hood.
Because if we’re gonna say that clients don’t really care what we see, how come most of us don’t just pick up a few secondhand 5D3/D810/A7Sii/GH5/C100/P6k/FS7 and call it a day? Some answers to this may reveal legit analysis paralysis. Others, not so much. 
It’s something every artist or business has to answer for themselves. Like I really don’t care for the FX6 since what I have is good enough, but if owning one fits well into existing clients’ workflows AND gets me more jobs then hey it’s time to consider upgrading.
(Remembering that we’re pages deep into a topic discussing video performance for a supposedly photo-focused camera model haha)

S5ii had improvements over orig S5, but lower level of details with oversharpening was annoying, even with 6k VLog and also with a LUT burnt in. It was especially noticeable on extracted stills when viewed from a big screen. 
If you check Connor McCaskill’s latest S1Rii Youtube clip, he has a download link to his footage. Had a play on resolve, and damn, S1Rii IQ looks definitely better and different than what came from S5ii sensor. Grades pretty effortlessly too. 
The only downside with Z6iii NRaw along the big file sizes is the NR. Don’t know if the full M4 Max chip is enough to play the timeline in real time with NR, and it is expensive.
Have a PC with 5800x CPU and RTX 3080 GPU too and editing is more stuttery with it than with M3 Pro Macbook. 
The latest Nvidia 5xxx GPUs have 4:2:2 support now, but they are not cheap either, and I prefer the ease of using macOS. 
A new camera usually means you need to get a new computer for editing too, but with S1Rii that does not seem to be the case. Even M1 Pro would be fine

I get that people love to dissect every little thing, but as someone working with some of the biggest media companies, I can tell you that a lot of these so called issues don’t even come up in real world professional work. The S1R II delivers solid image quality, stabilization, and dynamic range. More than enough to create high level content. I’m not saying don’t analyze your tools, but at some point, you have to ask, is this actually making you a better filmmaker, or just keeping you stuck in analysis paralysis? If your priority is making great content, you’ll be just fine.

I disagree, I really think the video engine is worse, of course much more when using the standard profiles. In 4K the level of details is low but yet these details are over-sharpened. In 5,9K/6K, there are more details but the bad sharpening is annoying. 
Of course most clients don't see the difference but they can't really see the difference between 4k or 1080P either ...
So if use high resolution video modes I want the best quality for cropping, for extract stills etc. If not, even an old GH2 is largely enough to create beautiful images. 
From my point of view, lowering image quality is never a great thing, I  just hope the S1RII will be closer to the S1 and S5 than the S5II.
 

No, I'm not sure, this is the first thing I will test when I receive the camera.

Since I like to crop and extract picture from my videos I can see a big difference between the image processing of the S5II and the S5, I agree V-log is a bit better than the standard profiles, even more in 4k. The S1RII at least seems to keep good quality when using the High stabilisation mode in 4k thanks to the 8k sensor.

About the green tint, the last firmware fixed it for me or I was lucky ...

Yes I hope they will add 8k raw internal though.

It's a work in progress, yes, so the feedback is appreciated.  
Your suggestions align with our thoughts as well, so the affirmation is encouraging.  There were a few different storytelling tacts we considered.  We ultimately decided to not deviate from their reality much and stay true.  Our usual tendencies would have been to play up some of the challenges  to heighten stakes, but their thing is actually rather modest and somewhat mellow, so (this edit for our locals anyway) is character study and a slow unfolding of their situation.
We expect to ultimately make a short "TV" version where the tighter and conventional storytelling stuff is in play.
So many different cameras were used simply because that's what we had on hand.  Also, there was a perverse pleasure in knowing we were using a ridiculous mix of cameras and then trying to unify IQ in post.
So much of what my wife shot was on an old Fuji XPro2.  Which is kind of a really dumb thing to do if you know that camera.  But oh well!  I often used a Olympus EM10iii --with a 1970's 50mm on it.  That's the camera that caught alot of the people shots.  
For the hawks, my severely banged up GH5 had a super cheap vintage Toyo 500mm lens and a 2x extender on it.  That was the rig that caught the most bird footage.  Rented some things along the way, but the timing of the rentals and nature didn't yield much.  Having that old lens was the silliest thing ever for capturing clean nature shots, but there was a lot of fun in the challenge of trying to make it work.  Manually trying to focus while panning at an effective 2000mm fov?  That was difficult.
I should have bought a real tripod, like a Sachtler, for trying to get birds in flight.  Not doing that was a mistake.
The Oly cam was the most doc friendly.  Small, unobtrusive.  Easy to use handheld kuz of the decent IS.  Looked good most of the time.  Trying to film on my Xiomi 12s Ultra was...meh.  Got a few pretty shots on it, but missed so much while fiddling with the touch screen.  No thanks.  Not doing that anymore.  Also, the phone's IS induces unwanted image jitter.  Bleh. The phone camera can look really great.  On par with the other cams in a way.  Not a practical tool though.
As for audio we just put 3 lav recorders on the main characters and let it rip.  Typically 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours at night.  x3 x60 days x2 years.  No monitoring of the audio.  We got what we got.  Keeping impressionistic field notes helped when trying to find good phrases later.  The standard grind of doc editing there, mitigated with the novel AI assist of transcribing.  Every once in awhile we'd pull out a blimp/deadcat/shotgun thing and get some quick interviews, but only a handful.
Finally, the days in the field were not really working shoots, per se.  More like us hanging out with friends, so those numerous hours were not a problem whatsoever.  Still, our rate card plus those hours would have kept the wife and I flush, but this is doc film making so that ain't happening.  If we ever see a return on this I'd be amazed.
Cheers!

Someone on this forum is actually producing work and putting it out into the world?! I had to watch and I am glad that I did. I thought that the visuals and editing were really nice. I loved the energy you created in the opening; it was riveting right off the bat. Hal is a memorable and interesting character. I tend to think of raptors as generally solitary so seeing such a magnificent series of "rivers" was a real treat -- I had no idea.
I am by no means a wildlife documentarian, but I'd like to offer a little critique. You've got a great setup but then I was waiting for an obstacle. Something that raises the stakes. Is the solar farm or other development being pushed through? What happens when Hal steps down? Or (and I really hope that this doesn't happen), what effect will the new strain of avian flu have on these birds? I think it might be worth keeping in touch with these folks because any one of those scenarios would add the drama that a piece like this needs to get into the bigger festivals or broadcast.
Or if it just doesn't look like the story will evolve much more (or you're just ready to move onto the next thing), I'd recommend cutting it down to a very tight 20-25 minutes. Maybe the climax is when the influx of birders come out in response to the email. There was good tension in that scene, like the citizen scientists were about to lose control of the mob.
Now a couple of questions. I saw in another post that you shot this with something like a dozen different cameras. What was the reason for that? Did any of them prove to be particularly documentary-friendly? It seemed like you had a LOT of people wearing lav mics and you caught some really choice soundbytes that added a lot to your story. What was your approach to audio? And how many times would you say that you've been out there for a shoot?
One last thing. The screener was only in 480P but that didn't stop the story from coming through at all. 4K be damned.
Great job on this and thanks for sharing. It was the most compelling share I've seen here in quite a while!

Anyone here specialize or enjoy documentaries?  My wife and I made a doc for our small community and were wondering if it had any viability beyond in-town screenings at the local film fest.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gorqbss1yxq6lufl81x44/HAWK_WATCH_SCREEN_DRAFT.mp4?rlkey=x5d8vcd4igr3bix0cdsgajq0b&st=mt1xzunz&dl=0
The 1st draft here is still loosey-goosey, but if you're so inclined, take a look and see if the story intrigues you enough to say, "Yeah, you might be able to get this out there other places."
We feel it's such niche topic that distribution isn't much of a reality, but maybe being niche is a positive in a certain way --and with a significant cut down it could have opportunities?  Not sure.  As one work on these things one gets rather myopic.  As you might imagine, feedback from folks in our local community is too biased.  They're just happy to see themselves, colleagues, and friends in a film.  
Any advice is welcome if you have time to watch. 

It will be 4 years trying to bully everyone into manufacturing stuff in the US not realizing that they will have to pay the factory workers US wages instead of Chinese or Thai, and the increase in costs for the manufacturer from what will make 50% tariffs look like peanuts. I hope the US consumer enjoys their inflation.
Having already crashed the stock market and let Russia off the hook, soon with the sanctions lifted, there's a lot of other unintended consequences to come from voting for a convicted fraudster that people may not have realised at the time when they voted for a senile Russian asset.
Of course there's a ton of Japanese cameras made or assembled in China and certainly shipped from China, Thailand or Vietnam rather than directly from Japan so the US will be seeing massive price hikes on all that as well, and that's the best case scenario for the US - as at some point importers may choose to prioritise other markets over them, and there's plenty of stuff in short supply like Fuji cameras which will be withheld and sent to the many other markets without tariffs.
There's also the problem of raw material resources if MAGA want to make manufacturing great again and do large quantities of modern electronics on a farm in Alabama, they will have to import a ton of it from China or plunder Ukraine (maybe snatch a few gold watches and gold teeth from dead bodies whilst they're at it?).
The whole bullying of Canada and Greenland thing is all so these nazi crooks can dig them up for raw resources and access Canada's hydroelectricity on the cheap. It isn't going to happen, not if Mark Carney wins.
I hope people who voted for the nazi party feel the hit in the bank accounts. YOU DESERVE IT 10x.

I think the opposite. Panasonic was a very known brand in the VHS times - their camcorders were some of the best, their VHS recorders sold millions of units. Could not be recognized as a stills camera company, but as a video brand, was on pair with Sony (at least here in South America).

Lumix appeared with their point & shoot cameras. Is like Sony changing their logo in front of the cameras to "Cybershot" instead of Sony.

Every non-camera person that ever saw me with a Lumix always ask "what brand is this, never heard", I say "It's made by Panasonic" and immediately people make a face of "oh, THIS i know".

So meanwhile let's look at what that means in the real world away from pixel peeping tests and number of stops.
14.2 stops so you can get an unusably bad image 5 stops under exposed?
Or does it have a genuinely big creative impact / image quality benefit.
After all it is "class leading above all other mirrorless cameras" so it must be pretty special and not just 1% better dynamic range than a 3 year old Nikon Z9, right?
And just because it has 1% more "test setup" dynamic range does not make it a better mirrorless camera than the Nikon Z8, because it's a lot more expensive than one for a start and with a far worse range of native lenses, and a less flexible system mount.
I do like the sRAW codec for 4K/60p, smaller file sizes, huge EVF, and the body design is a decent evolution from the original.
But the DR and C-LOG2... Meh.
Many more important things to consider overall like the system mount, codecs, handling, prices used and new, and so on.
 

No body comment on the Gopro?  Maybe I should have use Gopro instead of Pana for the upcoming docu I m shooting 

I think it just confirms the on-going trend that in the broadcast/videography world Sony is the leader with Canon still present but trailing behind. Panny, Nikon & Fuji are so far behind they're basically absent although that could potentially shift in years to come.
I've noticed the Sony dominance within my own local docu/concert/event scene. Its to the point where if you don't show up with Sony gear, people look at you funny. If you want work in that scene you basically just gotta be a Sony operator. I'm not sure how to explain it other than Sony FX ecosystem is really popular and yeah they have a head start with a FF range from A7 to FX3 to FX9. Also the A7S3/FX3/FX6 sensor is a lowlight champ with super low rolling shutter which helps a lot for run & gun docu style work.
Also S-Log3 is kind of the standard in production houses. C-log is acceptable too. Other log formats can be problematic to hand in. For example I haven't even figured out how to expose/grade Nlog correctly so it would be complicated to send N-log footage to a post unit not familiar with it. Might sound silly but its workflow stuff like that that can dictate a brand/format choice from another.. and part of why ARRI dominates the cine world.

I miss the year when you could scroll through that list and read 'LUMIX S1H' and shout, "get in there son!"
Maybe one day (year) we will see LUMIX or more likely Nikon in the list...

This is quite an eye opening chart..
https://ymcinema.com/2025/03/06/the-cameras-behind-sundance-2025-documentaries/
In the earlier days of Cinema EOS the C300 and C200 were all over the documentary filmmaking scene.
Now it is all Sony... a7 series and FX.

Has Canon mismanaged transition from Super 35mm to full frame in the cinema world?
It is beginning to look like it.
Meanwhile Panasonic are not in the chart, which is a shame as the GH1 pioneered documentary style shooting with mirrorless cameras and a large sensor, when everyone else were shooting pro ENG or camcorder small chip.

@Andrew ReidLooking forward to your experiences and impressions of the footage.

The deal is done, thank you Foto Meyer Berlin.
Sold some stuff, as I realised I didn't need it anyway as the Z8 does it all, pretty much.
Z8 has been out about a year already, which is crazy. Still I think 3099 given it's still current is quite generous. Like many of you guys I was waiting to see what Panasonic would come up with after so long.
But the S1R Mark II is not for me and S1H Mark II remains missing. I won't pay $3.5K / 500 euros more than the used Z8 for a cost-cut S5 body, no top LCD, worse AF, worse rolling shutter, and a worse mount. Also the S1R II internal RAW codec bitrates are too massive, ProRes RAW only, no 700Mbit custom RAW format like Canon/Nikon are offering with Canon RAW Lite and N-RAW. Although hey, at least Panasonic has internal RAW unlike Sony!
Z-mount is equal or better than L-mount for many reasons, primarily:
Megadap Sony E mount adapter opens up the entire Sony range of which there is a lot plus allows Sigma full frame lenses in by the back door. Lovely 35mm F2 is small and perfect for Z8. Also the Techart Leica M autofocus adapter is IMHO a must have, and this ain't available in L-mount. Plus Sigma APS-C lenses are in Native Z mount anyway so when I need to go for a very small zoon, 18-50mm F2.8 fits the bill perfectly and the Z8 has enough resolution in Super 35 mode to do it justice.
I could not wait another 12 months to 7 years for a Panasonic flagship. S1H Mark II might be really nice... who knows. They're not communicating.
Panasonic did not even so much as email me about the S1R Mark II.
But the main reason I am out of the Panasonic ecosystem is that the competition is both cheaper and better.

Yeah I was so set on a Z9 but after doing some tests I got very frustrated with N-log. Exposing it right, grading it. Such a struggle I ended up using the baked profiles like flat or neutral. Maybe I didn’t find the right workflow but log footage was all over the place with often very little latitude. Call me biased but Clog is just so effortless to work with in comparison. N-log really killed my GAS for switching to Nikon..
 
 

I think I have answered it myself...
The compression in H.265 is the result of bad tests.
They are using the MP4 mode which has extremely low bitrates.
In MOV we have 8K H.265 10bit 422 at 400Mbit, similar to the Sony a1's 500Mbit 8K mode post firmware update. This I have experience of and it was a match for N-RAW as far as the lack of compression, great shadow detail and a fine noise texture goes.
There's also a Prores 422 HQ 700Mbit/s mode in 4K/24p, so a reasonable step up from 400Mbit.
Remember however that H.265 long GOP at 400Mbit is equiv. to H.264 at 800Mbit so if you see a ton of macro blocking in that I'll be surprised!
The ProRes codec has the advantage of being ALL-I though.
According to Newsshooter where you can see the full breakdown of bitrates, 4K in H265 MOV is 190Mbit, so equivalent to 380 H.264.
https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/05/10/nikon-z8-announced/
Aside from the wide range of bitrates...
I like the fact it has no crop in 4K/120p plus the option of DX and 2.3x crop.
The 2.3x crop is nice for Super 16mm lenses.
Plus the high-res Zoom option for pretty much any crop factor between 1 and 2.3

One last thought, it seems Nikon did agree with the Canon 70d that the right place for the stills/movie mode is under your right hand.