austinmcconnell

I've tried to get used to it, but I'll be honest: that massive, persistent EOSHD header on the forums irks me to no end. I can't see squat. I'm able to view maybe 1 post at a time in a thread, and it essentially chops a third of my screen off. If there's ANY way to get rid of it, or collapse it, I'd be thrilled. 

I'm gonna assume you watched it on a TV with the Smooth Motion setting turned on. Makes everything look like junk. Switch it off in the menu settings, and then give it another look. 

The constant fast jump cuts and digital zooms made it rather hard to get a real sense of the look of the lens in motion. Any other video tests planned for the future? 

Shot this guerrilla style about a month or so ago for Project Greenlight. Thought I'd post it here, as it was really my first foray into 4K filmmaking. Learned a lot about handling the new workflow during the making of this.

Price is now five bucks for a limited time! Get 'em while they're hot.  :)

When I saw those perturbations, I thought I was watching a doc, not a narrative short. You can do that in documentary ...but you can't do it in narrative. 

You must be real fun at parties.  ;)

I'd say it's rather narrow-minded to tell someone what they aren't allowed to do in narrative. 

Anyway,

I must say I am quite a fan of Kendy's. Here's a filmmaker who spends time getting on-screen talent with the right look, scenery with the right atmosphere, and sound/music with the right feel.

Getting a 'film look' out of a DSLR is so much more than just adding some kind of correct color/grain mix to your footage... wish more people understood that. Proper composition, sound, place, and acting is necessary to make something cinema-worthy.

Having said that, I'd love to see Kendy get his hands on a GH4. It'd be interesting to see what he could come up with when he has a few more in-camera features. 

External drives are actually more common with serious editing, usually some kind of raid solution, sometimes sharing between multiple editors, etc.  This provides greater access to the drives themselves for maintenance and expansion while lowering downtime on the host editor.  Home editing of course doesn't have to be overkill though and a couple internal drives is okay for small stuff.

 

This is true. I mentioned storing internally because I can't tell you the amount of newcomers I've met who are using some USB 1.0/2.0 Western Digital drive to edit off of and wondering why 'their computer isn't fast enough'. :rolleyes: 

Austin. The external drives are only used for storage. All active files for editing are on the internal hdd. The think pad is a t410 with a 2.6ghz i7, 4gb ram, 500gb hdd, and nvidia GeForce 9100m.

Simply put, your processor is too slow and you don't have enough RAM. For $300-$400 you might be able to upgrade and improve things a bit, but in all honesty, if it was me, I'd get a dedicated editing machine that's up to snuff. Your computer is as much an investment as your camera is. I generally stay away from laptops all together, as the lifecycle is only about 4 years max. 

Your best bet if you want to stick with the machine you have is to render out proxies and edit those. But truthfully, your laptop specs are rather low for what you're trying to do with it. 

Hi Jon I have 3 1TB external drives that I use for file storage.

If you're editing video of any kind, you need to be hosting your files on an internal drive or something with a fast enough data transfer rate to handle playback. External drives are generally only to be used for archiving files. That could be the issue. Try putting the video files on your internal laptop drive and then see if you have any issues. 

Also, post the full specs for your laptop so we know what it is you're working with. 

The shocking thing in all of this is when someone drops a bomb like magic lantern on you and you understand that raw recording coudl've been possible years ago, then you understand how ripped off you got for so many years,

This is a bit of a misnomer. The fast CF and SD cards required for raw video didn't exist 'years ago', which is likely why the DSLRs of yesteryear didn't have it as an option. Even now with the tech we have in 2014, raw recording is still very hit-or-miss and unstable. These cameras were released in '08. Developed with tech at latest from '07. It's not so much that camera companies were 'hiding' raw video... it's just that there was no way they could make it consumer-friendly. The tech did not exist then, in a stable and economical form.

But yea, the rest of your stuff is on point. 

We warned you kids this could happen! Told you, we did! 'Constant RAW recording is too much data being transferred', we said! But you couldn't resist. Alas, NOW look where your greed has gotten you. Wannabe filmmakers everywhere will be burned and scarred. This epidemic shall spread. This is the end! Your need for RAW will bring about your RUIN!

Long live ProRes and H.264! May they forever stand! 

Here's something I'd like to get feedback for from all you creative types. What methods do you use when coming up with ideas for your craft? Do you find yourself too distracted by the noise of things like instagram, twitter, Facebook, etc? How do you stay focused and make your work a reality?

I'd really like us to settle on an acronym for the thing. It's the Blackmagic Production Camera. BMPC. All this nonsense about BMCPC, BM4K, BM 4K, BMPCC4K. Blah.  :lol:

What kind of show is this guy running over there closing topics left and right. 

Well, considering he took the time to make the GH2 hack in the first place and made it public for all to use, my advice to you would be something along the lines of, 'deal with it, you non-contributing, self-entitled twerp'. But pretend I said it in a nicer manner.  :D

He doesn't owe anybody anything. If he wants to make the GH3 hack or not, it's completely up to him. Be grateful for the work he's done in the past, and recognize that if anyone has a problem with him or the way he does things, then too bad. You can try and hack the camera, yourself. But since the majority of his critics don't have the first clue how to even begin such a task, keep quiet.

I don't understand why you feel as if he is somehow obligated to make you happy and fulfill your wishes. That goes for all the people over there that complain about the lack of a GH3 hack.  

Yes the lighting is different. Yes the composition is different. Yes the focal length and compression is different so I applaud you for letting us know all of this. Despite your points, EVERY shot in the BMC4K shot looks inherently softer than anything in the Genesis piece... 

This is the weirdest sentence. It's like a loopable logical fallacy. 

Change the word 'despite' to 'because of' and it'll make sense.  :lol:

To be fair, this is two completely different angle setups at two completely different focal lengths, probably using two completely different lenses at completely different focus points. Not very scientific of a test.

I could make a GH1 look like it has better resolution than a RED if asked. 

Image sharpness, lighting, focus, lens quality, etc. can all make or break an image regardless of resolution. 

 

From the personal-view.com I found this some days ago, in the E-M1 topic:

 

- "the Olympus OM-D EM-1 contains a Panasonic 34231 (MN34230 die markings) CMOS Image Sensor with on-chip phase detection pixel array http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera "

 

- "This 34321 could not be found in the Panasonic's site. But the MN34230, yes:

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+SC+4+CGA7001+MN34230+8+WW

And this is interesting: "Features 1080p/60fps, 4k2k/30fps" .............!

 

Just throwing out there that a sensor might be capable, but the rest of the internal components might not be able to handle it. I'm sure you could overclock a lot of cameras to get 4K recording, but the thing will burst into flames after a few moments. :P 

 

The BBC uses the EBU’s Recommendations for high definition cameras

 

List of BBC Aproved HD Cameras (as of April 2012)

Studio Cameras

• Sony HDC1500 • Sony HDC1550 • Sony HDC1400 • Sony HDC1450 • Sony HSC300 • Sony HXC100 • Grass Valley LDK8000 Elite Worldcam • Grass Valley LDK8000 Elite Standard • Grass Valley LDK4000 Elite 1080i

HD Handheld

• Canon XF305 • Canon XF300 • Sony PMW-EX1R – with external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above • Sony PMW-EX3 - with external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above

HD Shoulder Mount

• Panasonic HDX900 • Panasonic HPX371 • Panasonic HPX3000 • Panasonic HPX3100 • Panasonic HPX3700 • Sony PMW320 – with an external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above • Sony PMW350 – with an external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above • Sony PMW500

• Sony HDW F900R & 900 • Sony HDW 790, 750 & 730

HD Specialist

• Panasonic HPX2700 HDC27F & H • Panasonic AF101 – with an external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above • Sony CineAlta F35 • Sony SRW 9000 • Sony PMW F3 – with an external recorder using a bitrate of 50Mbps or above • Arri D21 • Arri Alexa • Panavision Genesis • Thompson Viper • Red

Mini Cameras

• Iconix HD-RH1 • Panasonic HCK10/HMR10 • Toshiba IK-HR1S • Toshiba IK-HD1

 

Recently approved :Red Epic,Canon 1DC

 

Key word there being 'Recommendations.' This is not a requirement. This 'list' is meant to be a guide for the local stations when selecting cameras to purchase for their photogs who go out into the field. They select these cameras because they use a codec that plays smoothly with Grass Valley (the editing and ingesting software commonly used in TV news). The idea is, we need a camera that imports quickly into our servers so Jimmy the photog can shoot/import/cut/send to control room within minutes in case there is breaking news. Additionally, many journalists shoot and edit by themselves, having only hours to cut together their package for airtime. These folks aren't doing complicated edits, because they don't have any idea how, beyond basic cuts and voice overs. They're too worried about being dressed and prepped in time for their live shot to worry about color correction or anything like that. So these 'recommended cameras' are ENG cameras designed to do as much in-cam as possible, with editing an afterthought.

I'm guessing anyone mulling over the 'GH4 vs BMPC' decision aren't news photogs or multimedia journalists with the BBC. You're likely thinking about using it for documentaries. In that case, you'll have plenty of time to edit, color correct, etc. to get it perfectly cut together for broadcast. The '4.2.2 standard' thing isn't meant for you. It's meant for the company when choosing which cameras to purchase for their news team, so that they get the ones that play nicest with the control room, AND so they can have unified equipment in case a journalist's camera breaks, they wont have to waste time trying to figure out how to use a different model. 

They might *say* they require XYZ, but if you hide it and don't say anything, would they even know the difference?

You don't need to even hide it. That 4.2.2 'broadcast standard' thing is really just something video journalists latched onto when the DSLR boom happened to justify their equipment. I roll my eyes whenever I hear it used as a reason for people to not use DSLRs or the like for news. It all stems from it being the 'recommended' specs for news stations when purchasing cameras so that there's a bit of unity in the equipment across individual local stations.

The truth is no one even so much as glances at what camera you shot it on. If the aspect ratio or something is off, they just scale that sucker up til it fits the TV monitor. The producers who ultimately operate the switcher at broadcast have no clue what any of that '4.2.2 / 4.2.0' junk means. They don't care. Did you get the shot, or not?

The extent of codec knowledge TV Producers has is this:

Drag video file onto timeline ---> Export To---> Control Room ---> OK (Done). 

I still for the life of me have no idea what people are on about when they say you must shoot in 4.2.2 to meet some television standard. I have worked in broadcast television for years and have never ever ever heard of something 'rejected' because it isn't 4.2.2. Ever. Matter of fact, when working for television news, I would personally shoot plenty of full news packages in 4.2.0. Nobody cares. They filter it through a switcher. It's not like if you shoot something internally with this camera and then give it to the BBC or another national news outlet they'll go, "WHAT?! YOU AREN'T USING THE PROPER SUBSAMPLING?! WE CAN'T USE THIS!" and throw it out the window. News flash, people: cell phone video makes the news every single day. YouTube clips are pulled. Half the national news packages in the feeds that are used in broadcast aren't even full 1080p. This whole 'BBC Approved Color Space' thing is a load of malarkey and is only thrown around by folks who have absolutely no clue how television broadcast works.

G6 or GH3 would be the best budget choice, but I'll let you in on a little secret - if you've got time to wait it out before making a purchase, do so. The GH4 was just announced yesterday, and in a month or a little more, the price of the G6/GH3 is going to drop as the newer model takes center stage. Hope that helps. Cheers.

I'm all for more choices and innovation, having said that I'm left thinking that the Blackmagic Pro is still a better option.

 

Let me explain:

 

GH4 = roughly $2k

4K add-on = roughly another $2k

4K external recorder = probably another $2k

2X crop factor

no raw option

clunky form factor

reduced, but still present rolling shutter

4K add-on needs external power

no release date, hopefully available by the end of the year

 

vs.

 

Blackmagic 4K

4K raw and ProRes

Super35 sensor

global shutter

$4k including full version of Resolve

less clunky (but still somewhat clunky) form factor

needs external power

well behind the promised release date, but should be here any day now.

 

 

What am I missing?

External recorder price is far too high... not sure what the 4K 'add on' is, or why you would need it... but in my opinion you're missing out on:

- The added cost of workflow for using Blackmagic Production Camera (HDD, Capable Editing System, etc.)

- Quality Control of Blackmagic Products

- Will ship by the time we're all in the grave. (I kid... hopefully.)

- Additionally, I actually find it far more 'clunky' than the GH4, if the BMCC is any indication. The lack of buttons is actually MORE frustrating for me because I found myself having to constantly use that bloody awful touchscreen that I could barely see outdoors. Plus, no articulated screen. Plus, required a rig because handheld was too jittery. Plus, no ability to play back clips, delete clips, see how much time left on memory card, etc. So, yeah, this is a big big factor for me, and I believe should be for anyone who wants to avoid serious headaches on set.

Then again, the BMPC or other Blackmagic products may work swimmingly for you. More power to you! I have just experienced nothing but headaches on set with them, and ultimately got rid of them. I could not justify the lack of basic quality assurance. Having to stop every 30 minutes on set because of technical issues was frustrating for everyone involved, and I began valuing getting jobs done on time and headache free over the awesomeness of RAW.

The GH4 looks like the best thing an indie filmmaker could ask for at the moment, and the fact that I see people on twitter/forums complaining that it 'only does 96fps' is moronic. Some folks are never satisfied... even with the latest and greatest. 

First of all, don't call me 'dude'. If a punk cinematographer calls me 'dude'... they don't get a job. Simple as that. This is YOUR forum where you pretend to be a professional cinematographer, at least try to act like it. 

Literally no one on the face of the planet would ever want to work for you - you have some kind of anger issues. Also, did you just like, copy/paste the exact some post from earlier? I don't understand. You seem to be under the impression that throwing out insults at people makes you seem cool. It actually is the opposite. It makes you appear very small, and a little bit... y'know, insane. Be nice. Grown ups are supposed to behave better.  :)

BMD don't need more dynamic range. They need a camera with a good form factor and without a million annoying quirks.

There's plenty of room to create a more desirable follow up.

What BMD REALLY needs is to ship their bloody cameras.  ;)

But I agree. The sensor is the last thing they should be focusing on. How about giving users the ability to... I dunno... review/delete clips? Have a decent battery? Some kind of total runtime countdown? A myriad of basic camera features that any decent company would think to include in a quality assured product. 

First of all, don't call me 'dude'. If a punk cinematographer calls me 'dude'... they don't get a job. Simple as that. This is YOUR forum where you pretend to be a professional cinematographer, at least try to act like it. 

Chill out, dude. You're spittin' venom over opinions on a camera. 80% of the world lives in poverty. Perspective.  B)

Anyone who is thinking the BMPC is a better choice than this is still forgetting about workflow and the added cost and time that will go with it. I really like what I'm seeing here, and will definitely be picking one up.