IronFilm

Well I for one would love to see them make one that looked like the ones they used to make.

I think Nikon/RED discounted because Nikon will come out with a cinema camera that will fill the Kimono space (something in lines to the C70 / FX3 FX6). I’ve heard Nikon will take those entry camera sales and RED will stick to high end lines. I’m interested to see what a Nikon cinema camera looks like.

I've often made the observation that for many years (I'd say arguably since roughly the Nikon D7100 era, and even arguably even earlier since say the D7000 or D700) that dedicated stills cameras have got "good enough" for many photography users. 
Thus even without the rise in smartphone photography capabilities, then we'd have seen a steep decline in stills camera sales due to the average consumers no longer needing to have a strong driving push to upgrade. 
The same thing has now happened with video and hybrid cameras as well, they've reached for most people "the good enough" stage, that upgrades for many people are no longer strictly necessary to do so frequently. (we can leave it to another thread to debate exactly when did that happen.... S5mk2? a7Smk2? P4K? X-T3? GH5? GH4?)
Perhaps something has similar has happened for PCs. 
Ages ago it used to be every couple of years the leap forward in computers was so huge that it made sense to consider an upgrade, even for "average joe consumers". Then PCs of the past got "good enough" that consumers might happily go a five years lifecycle with them. 
Until now these days, you could get an ancient ThinkPad T440 for next to nothing, spend a hundred bucks on an extra  stick of RAM and a new SSD, then put a fresh OS install on it, and you'll have a laptop that's perfectly fine for the needs of most average users. 
It shows that the lifecycles for PCs these days are easily over a decade plus years. 
Which is likely also linked to the big drop in interest in people building their own PCs, which is much less common these days. 
(And I haven't even touched on the massive rise in popularity of smartphones and tablets, meaning many people don't need need their desktops/laptops, or at the very least use it far less than they otherwise would have) 

If only there was a member of this forum who uses L Mount for video and Sony for stills who has been praying for a ‘one & done’ constant aperture f2.8 lens ranging from 28 to about 100mm whilst weighing max 1kg.
If only there was a member of this forum this lens was designed for…

I honestly think they just want to be more competitively priced against the new Canon C400 and the Sony lineup. 

The RED Komodo appeal outside of VFX work, speciality rig, and crash cam is owner op and the C400 is very apealing for that market given it's price and what it offers. 

@Ninpo33 What exactly is your point? Is it that the DJI Ronin 4D is a good camera for me, individually (responding to my 2nd post here)? Or are you saying that DJI should market and sell a hybrid primarily on image quality instead of their cool focus and wireless tech (responding to my first post)?
Because all I'm saying is that I consider as many options as I can with the info I have, and that the Ronin 4D is not among the top viable choices that I have for the projects that I am writing. My group and I discuss every option, from renting an Alexa 35, to buying a 4D, to getting a ton of mirrorless cameras and saving time by shooting multicam. Hybrids are on the table, but generally lower than a Ronin 4D in terms of pros/cons. I'm only saying what makes sense for my wallet and projects, which I don't think is being unnecessarily skeptical nor am I disrespecting people who use DJI cameras.
Outside of my personal purchasing, I don't believe that the wider film community currently flocks to DJI as a leader in "color science" in the numbers that rally to "Canon color" or "Nikon color." So my opinion is that a DJI-brand photo camera will gain more traction if they include and advertise innovative accessories, rather than their image quality.
 
Specifically regarding the video that you shared, I do find it a bit monotone and flat colored for my taste, which can obviously be grading. But like I said, the nuance is not whether the image is "good" its "how good" vs. the competition vs. ease of use (in many scenarios) vs. cost vs. upgradeability.
 
My comparisons are all over the place because I try to consider every angle, and I don't have the money to do all of them! It's like deciding whether to hire a CGI artist, or a craftsman to build a miniature, or plane tickets to shoot on location. Totally different options with almost incomparable pros and cons, but ultimately they have to be compared.

Why would you not include hybrids? You’re comparing image quality for price aren’t you? A rigged out hybrid might get you a better image that you don’t consider as “meh” LOL.
Honestly, my same buddy I mentioned before has used the DJI on a bunch of commercial shoots for Samsung and I bet you wouldn’t even be able to tell the difference while watching one of those spots on TV. 
And again, why even make the comparison between the other cameras you mention? Like what’s the point of comparing bottom level pro-ish mostly Super 35 Sensor cameras around the same price point that don’t even offer full frame, similar specs or features? If you buy a used C70 or C300 etc… and add LiDAR, a gimbal that can do Z Axis, handle controls, wireless transmitting etc…(close to $3,500) you’re close to $10k. 
Also on the DJI factor in pro res raw internal, 6k 60p external recording to SSD’s over USB-C and Full frame be Super 35 options. 
As far as modular, I meant that the head comes off to be able to act as a pole camera/Jib arm with the flex unit or fit between small spaces, etc… that’s something the other cameras you mention don’t even have the ability to do. Again, why a smaller hybrid mirrorless camera with IBIS comes in handy. 
You’re entitled to your opinion of course but I just think your comparisons are kind of all over the place. And I guess as you said, it’s not a camera for your use case so in the end it doesn’t even really matter. 
 
Just curios, what is it about the footage from the 4D that you can identify as being “meh”? Specifically, compared to a C300mkii or Komodo?
 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

Someone should let them know that "like new" is supposed to apply to the condition, not the price!  C'mon, give us the deals, MPB!

Ah I see yes, I agree with that. Sometimes the customer doesn't need to go on a deep dive and upgrades become less frequent anyway.
But it doesn't change the fact that written journalism in the tech industry should not simply vanish, there is still a huge demand for it.
It is just that the way we digest content now on small screens just isn't suited to magazine style in-depth articles so it discourages us from spending time that way.
When I do try to spend time with many of these websites I am bombarded by cookie permissions, ads, bad design and clickbait anyway, whereas scrolling through apps on a phone is a much cleaner, faster experience.
Yeah the ad dollars have by and large been hoovered up by influencer gobshites.
Witness the last Pana launch where they outnumbered journalists by a huge margin.
And anyone who does more probing coverage isn't as useful for marketing now anyway. They are not there to sell. They're there to tell the truth in an in-depth way.
Guess which the marketing bosses prefer, them or the influencers?
And therefore they spend accordingly...
Indeed the ad industry has seen a large shift in spend to influence the influencer.... rather than to themselves directly influence the customer.
Yes good point.
But wasn't it always a minority in class rooms that nerded out on stuff like this?
But yeah, times change... Today's kids are more likely to be into Telegram, Ai, social media, YouTube, console gaming and streaming.
A toxic bunch of platforms if ever I saw one.

I had an E2 which I traded for an M4 when the flagship came out. Unfortunately my film group fell apart shortly after, so I didn't get to use it much. I always wanted an f6 but I just haven't shot much the last few years. I'm getting back into it this year though!
Absolutely, and I've watched a couple sell used for under $1800. Wild value.
My next few projects are very action and vfx heavy. A global shutter would make our virtual sets a little easier. Maybe if used komodo prices drop a bit more I'll get that. But I'm in no hurry, no big projects are imminent yet unfortunately.

It included a Kondor Blue cage, a timecode cable, and an XLR adapter (though they refunded me the used price of the XLR adapter since it wasn't included after all).  That was the going rate for the K-X in May.  I'm not too thrilled that the price dropped so much just a few months after I bought it, but since I intend to keep it for a good long time, I'm not super angry about the suddenly much lower resale value.
The link is to one that's $3,598 from Adorama which I remember from looking earlier to see if they dropped yet is in "well-used" condition (aka pretty beat up, but still functional).  And we'll see about the other brains - Scarlet and Red One were both already getting pretty cheap (brain-only), but a lot of the other bodies were really holding their used value when I got the K-X.  I'd been thinking about getting one of the older VV bodies, but in the end realized that even if the brain was $2k cheaper than the K-X, by the time I got it ready to shoot with all the proprietary DSMC2 crap, it'd be within spitting distance of the K-X price-wise.
Yes, in the form that was shown at conventions and listed on Adorama/B&H.  Apparently there's still hope for... something, though the Komodo price drops might have obliterated that hope too.  The E2-S6G was already a tough sell at an equal price to the Komodo.  I can't imagine who would be buying it for more.  The only reason I have one is that a user in Europe sold it to me for half the new price because he hadn't been able to find a buyer in Europe for months.  He threw in some other goodies too (mounts, Z Back, etc).
"I can't get anybody to buy this thing, not even for half price."
"Half price, you say?"

That's fair, though it's also somewhat par for the course with Z Cam.  They tend to announce things and then go silent for a while, with just the occasional flash of the thing showing up at trade shows - and then suddenly they're shipping it.  And I'm in the "believe it when I see it" category with every camera vendor, not just Z Cam.  At least their upcoming product info tends to come from employees/partners and not from shacks in the Dolomite Mountains.  😉

Not surprising. It's hard to sell cameras at long-term-investment prices when no one knows what the new owners will do with that product and there are so many other brands on the horizon. As much as I would love a global shutter box camera, I don't know that I would spend half those prices on Red cameras, unless Nikon releases a product or two that proves their commitment to those lines.
Also, I made a mental note early this year that 2024 would be a uniquely poor time to buy a camera. At that time we knew Nikon had bought Red, and there were rumors of a new Canon C-camera. Here we are a few months later, and on top of both of those, Blackmagic announced a truckload of cameras, Z Cam has presumably cancelled the M5G, and rumors are swirling about successors to the FX6 and S1H. It's quite the year for low-to-mid cinema cams.

Also, wish they'd drop V-Raptor [X] down to $10-15k new.  If so, I'd definitely be going through all of my stuff to figure out what could be traded in.  🤣

I’m not defending DJI, but this comment sounds like a bit of unnecessary skepticism because objectively the image is as good as any of the cameras on the market today. Competent shooters knows it’s what’s put in from of the sensor that paints these images. 

You may recall that they have been using the Hasselblad logo on their drones/lenses for a while now. Definitely remember the first time I saw one and it did make me think, "Wow, they're upping the image on these drones now"...

I started researching the 4D camera a little closer and I have to say it rally hits a lot of the points I want in a camera. I can't see how they are possibly breaking even on this stuff, but I really hope they continue to make more of those.
I'd have to assume that if they enter the hybrid market, their angle will be these cool accessories, like wireless video and Lidar autofocus. Because the one thing they don't really have is a great image. I mean there's nothing wrong with their image, there's just nothing special about it.

Phones was one the missus and I were discussing just the other day and how, other than some photo/lens options, there hasn't been anything we have been slightly interested in with the last 3 or 4 iterations of the iPhone.
Nope, nothing, nada.
I think I have peaked for my needs on all things tech whether cameras, audio gear, laptop, phone... Now it's not even a case of 'want', but rather 'might like' at some point if it floats my boat.
I'd rather see innovation now rather than incremental steps of 'progress' of essentially 'the same thing'.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/21542/end-of-the-road-an-anandtech-farewell
Very sad to see the news of Anandtech stopping.
Canary in the coal mine or what? If this can happen to a PC / tech website which is part of a thriving market compared to DPReview, then it can happen to ALL quality journalism on the world wide web.
Anandtech is owned by Future PLC, they are the British company behind some of the earliest mainstream tech journalism in the UK such as the PC and Atari magazines on shelves in the 80s and 90s.
In a nut shell smartphones are killing long form written content completely and the internet is going away as we know it.
It is turning into cable TV or sensationalised clickbait tabloid news.
Just look at the camera rumors sites and YouTube.
A big shame if you ask me and it would be great to know what to do to preserve the written word, written journalism and written knowledge outside of just books, if the internet is no longer the right medium for it.
Time for an internet 1.0... That can only be accessed via a desktop or laptop?
The problem with phones is that you just don't have the large enough screen space to do anything useful, content wise. It lends itself only to scrolling and short captions, or photos and video.

And today you can get a C300mk1 ready to go for just US$600, it's crazy how super affordable great cameras are today. (if you don't mind ignoring the lack of 4K) 

The point of IBIS cannot be understated. How many people are there who practically never use a tripod? I bet the answer would be very high. Also, what surprised me the most was the 1080p, which is what I really care about. I think the S5ii bettered the others at 25fps in FF. I'm fairly certain it's a 6k-ish downsampled image, making it the best of the bunch, but they're all fairly good at 200%.

Watched on 16" MacBook full screen and my takeaway/opinion was:
Best detail 4k 25p = Canon
Best detail 4k 50p = Canon
Best low light 4k = Sony
Best colour = Lumix (which surprised me)
Best DR = Lumix and worst DR = Canon
Best image of the lot, Lumix 6k 25p, especially in open gate.
Does the 6k mode reduce IBIS ability slightly? Maybe but as Lumix already has arguably the best IBIS as a starting point, it's probably comparable at least with Canon and better than the Sony which most reckon is still a bit behind.
Lumix 6k 25p open gate for the win then. I prefer 30p for various reasons.

Maybe for YouTube and general stuff web stuff but if you are delivering in any professional capacity it’s going to be 4K DCI or 4K Scope. Netflix and streaming won’t take 1080 for anything so it’s not even a conversation it’s just the standard now. 

Liar liar, overheating Canon R5 user's house on fire.

And today you can get a C300mk1 ready to go for just US$600, it's crazy how super affordable great cameras are today. (if you don't mind ignoring the lack of 4K)