IronFilm

Let’s be real, Panasonic isn’t targeting the casual shooter with this model. They’re aiming at the semi pro and advanced enthusiasts who need high end features, and dropping the price too low would undercut the value of what it offers. Plus, Panasonic hasn’t been silent. Look at the release of the GH7. This clearly shows they are investing in high quality gear and advancing technology, especially for video professionals. They’re not just coasting along. They’ve made it obvious where they’re headed with their recent releases.
As for capitalism, it’s not just about keeping up with market trends. It’s also about knowing your market. Panasonic knows who they’re building for, people who need reliable tools for serious work. Yes, companies need to innovate, but that doesn’t mean dropping prices on premium products. There’s always room for new shiny tech, but the truth is, the features that cameras like the S9 and GH7 offer will remain relevant for years. Sure, things move fast, but you don’t need a new camera every year to stay competitive. The quality these cameras deliver is more than enough for most work, even as tech advances.
So, while we all want more affordable options, Panasonic is sticking to its guns, building tools for those who need them long term rather than chasing short-term trends.

A camera with appeal to approximately 5 people on the planet.
Should have made an S1H-S and used the sensor from the S5ii but with the OLPF which is possibly at least partly why the image from it is the best of all the S line cameras.
It was the lack of PDAF and somewhat hit & miss reliability of AF at critical times that forced me to go S5ii.
People generally love the S1H but for whatever reason, LUMIX do not appear to have milked it but instead, allowed it to slowly die.
Ditto the S1R. Criminally overlooked, mainly for stills but...

I've said it before but the camera that presents the biggest challenge to Panasonic getting traction with their latter releases isn't made by someone else, its made by Panasonic themselves.
The S5ii is the spanner in the works for the G9ii, GH7 and S9.
Cheaper than the first two (and lets not ignore the not insubstantial difference of it being FF over MFT) and easily justifying the extra £300 over the last one for the additional features.
How likely do you think it is that someone walks into a camera store to buy a Panasonic camera and doesn't walk out with the S5ii when presented with all four?
Actually, or even all five if you are in Europe when you throw in whatever the hell the S5d is
The ARRI LogC3 got a lot of buzz for the GH7 and maybe it could be the thing that does the same for the S9 but that is at the expense of pissing off every owner of the other S cameras.
Discontinuing the S5ii seems the only way out of this for them !

Specs are solid but that is not a “prosumer” camera. S9 is not a prosumer camera. FX30, FX3, X-H2s, S5iix is what I think most people would classify as “prosumer”.
But camera companies have to sell cameras and for all I know, this is what needs to be done to sell cameras in 2024? It makes sense considering how we consume content these days. 
 

It makes perfect sense (in my opinion) because:
A. I think they overpriced it to start with. Should have been 1250 max. That would have increased the buzz but the price was and is a major criticism by most.
B. They fluffed it’s launch within The Community at least. It was controversial to say the least on various levels, but specifically that utterly shit launch lens.
C. Outside The Community, people shop on brand and price. Fuji vs Panasonic Lumix, not much in that but the Fuji is something like 40% cheaper.
D. Panasonic’s market share is lower than Fujis with Fujis image increasing (TikTok X100 just one example) whereas LUMIX has flatlined at best. Without a halo product in an S2R or S2H very soon, they risk cardiac arrest as even within The Community, folks WILL increasingly jump ship. It’s a dog eat dog world and folks generally do not back losers and LUMIX is in very real danger of being seen as a basket case.
And I am a LUMIX fan. They are my brand of choice for video.
I tried the S9. It was good but not great.
I returned it for another (used at the SAME price) S5ii which is a far better camera at around the same price point.
Would I ever consider buying and using another S9?
Yes absolutely and have kept my Smallrig cage for it just in case that opportunity comes up, but only as a sidekick to an S2R because it does not tick enough boxes for me to be my A cam for pro work (single card slot and no fan being the principle deal-breakers there for me).
The X-M5 is IMO a slightly less capable camera than the S9, mainly due to the lack of IBIS but if I was Average Joe browsing my local camera shop, the sales person would probably steer me towards the sub 1k camera and price-wise, I would convince myself that 899 is better than 1499 or whatever the S9 is currently priced at.
But this is all just my personal opinion and maybe the S9 is flying off the shelves, loved by the masses and The Community, but the latter are just to busy to talk about it…
 

Yeah, I get it. I was just pointing out the discrepancy over what Sean said (who seemed to indicate they're flying off the shelves) and the very unofficial information I have. I know what the camera is capable of too. The frustration with Panasonic stems from the X-M5 release and their unwillingness to make a small camera for enthusiasts that isn't at pro-level prices. The S9 practically has no suitable lenses for it. For M43, they have a full ecosystem that is ready to go with many willing buyers. At this point, I can only believe they've left M43 to just high-end, big cameras. Please prove me otherwise Panasonic. It's possible- Fuji did it. Why not you?

It’s easy to jump to conclusions about a lack of hype for the Panasonic S9, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not selling. I’ve found a few YouTubers who reviewed the S9, such as in this review where it was tested over the course of a week with a focus on how it performs in the field. The reviewer didn’t hold back on both the good and bad points.
As for the lack of YouTube buzz, it’s worth noting that just because a camera isn’t flooding review channels doesn’t mean people aren’t buying it. Some users may be busy using the camera for actual shoots rather than focusing on making reviews. The S9 is packed with professional features like LUT integration and 6K video, which are meant for creators who are likely more interested in putting it to work than reviewing it.
Finally, B&H reviews alone don’t fully represent the bigger picture. Many people don’t leave reviews, even if they’re satisfied with the product, and a lack of complaints online can often mean that users are content.
 
 

Was trying to edit my other post to add more of my thought, but I guess I was too late…
 
 
As a camera tech aficionado, I’ve noticed gear buying has become more about status than skill, even among so-called “professionals.” The pros I’ve learned from? They stuck with their equipment for years and still delivered incredible work, focusing on mastering their tools instead of chasing every new release.
That said, I’ve evolved too. I used to scoff at autofocus, but now, as a one-man band, I need gear that lets me concentrate on composition and sound without worrying about missed focus. That’s why any new camera I get has to have dependable autofocus. I’m leaning toward the GH7 for its 32-bit audio. Its perfect for solo shooters. And while the X-M5 has stunning image quality, I’d only consider it if the autofocus could keep up. For now, the tools I have are more than enough.
 
 
 

The relaunched S5 with full Hdmi would have been all the camera I ever needed for personal and semipro use. Another missed opportunity.
There is no L mount option for the TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 Lens, which @IronFilm has mentioned in the Fuji XM5 thread. Lumix S9 users might be using it for S35 pocket cinema fun. But then there are not so many S9 owners. If I had bought one, I would neither be exited about the micro hdmi which it shares with the Fuji XM5 nor about the fact that it does not offer external Braw while the Fuji does on the other hand. Though greatest deal breakers still remain the missing evf, mechanical shutter and hotshoe.
Awesome to see the awesome Phillip Reeve been linked to btw:)
 

S9 needs to be priced at 999 or LUMIX might need to call 999.
(UK emergency number for non-Brits)

I think the significance of this camera extends far beyond whether you actually want it because it doesn’t tick every box for you.
That significance is being able to say to other manufacturers “OK, now why can’t YOU do this for $799?”

Exactly. 
Most first time buyers are not pixel peeping reviews of lenses, they don't care, or even for those who do care they night not even fully grasp understanding the reviews to figure out just how much better one lens is vs another. Or they might just flat out not have the money for it yet, even though they do want those better lenses. 
The 50mm f2 lens for $159 with the image quality of a nifty fifty from the 1980's is always going to out sell the $399 50mm f1.8 
I am saying "generally speaking", and it's not true for all users. Of course lots of exceptions exist who buck the trends, such as yourself. You're very happy to experiment outside the mainstream. 
Plus you work solo? Never with other shooters? (either under you, or you working for someone else) And you never / rarely rent in extra equipment such as extra lenses or cameras?
The dynamics of investing in gear changes so much once you consider those factors. 

100%
It can't be understated what a powerful factor having a massive user base is when it comes to choosing a camera. 
I'll happily take a 15% worse camera if it has 5x more users. 
Is why a Sony FX30 will probably be my next camera (if I even get another camera next year). 
As everyone and their dog has a Sony camera. You have to seriously beat Sony on price and/or features to make a person consider anything else. (although Canon gets an honorable mention when it comes to popularity, and Blackmagic does ok in their little indie niche) 
It's also why back when I first started with photography I went for a Nikon D50. Just didn't make sense to consider Pentax / Sony / Olympus / etc, as you can't just be better/cheap than Nikon/Canon. You need to be a lot better/cheaper. 
At the very least, Panasonic needs to be price competitive against the likes of the a7mk2 (which is still being sold brand new!) / Sony a7C / Canon EOS RP
It's too much to think Panasonic will ever undercut them in price, but at least be within a couple of hundred dollars of them!
 
Yup, it's not just camera bodies that need to be price competitive to grow the number of new photographers/videographers into the ecosystem, but the lenses too. 
Look at their prices for L Mount:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Afull-frame-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Aleica-l-mount%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only 
Cheapest is a $350 prime. Next cheapest from Panasonic is their new compact kit zoom at $500!
Compare that with Canon, who have four lenses which are cheaper than Panasonic's cheapest. 
Nikon has also four (well arguably "two") lenses cheaper than Panasonic's cheapest. And a zoom cheaper than Panasonic's cheapest zoom. 
(none of this is counting the various third party lenses either, of which there are for more for them than there are for L Mount)
Ideally I'd like Panasonic to do something such as a 50mm f2 lens for $160-ish, and a 28mm f2.8 pancake lens for sub $300
And a medium range zoom (24-90mm ish that is f4 ish) that's cheaper than any of their current zooms. 
That will fill in some big gaps in the entry level starting out lens kit, to make Panasonic competitive again. 

Nothing wrong with this approach, it's what Sony has been doing very successfully for a number of years. 
Can't afford the latest a7Rmk3? That's fine, maybe we can tempt you with the latest and cheaper a7mk3? Oh, that's still not cheap enough for you? Well look, we have an older a7mk2 still available for sale! What, not even that is cheap enough for you? No problem, we've got you, here is an OG a7mk1!
And Sony is still doing this strategy even today. 
Look at B&H, where both an a7mk2 and an a7mk3 and an a7mk4 is available for sale!
I see nothing at all wrong with Panasonic keeping around the Panasonic S5mk1 at a cheaper price. (currently US$1.4K https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1581612-REG/panasonic_lumix_dc_s5_mirrorless_digital.html)
Even better if they keep on bringing it down in price, brand new $1.2K S5mk1 by Christmas? Sub $1K S5mk1 in 2025? 

Or OIS, such as the kit lens that comes with the X-M5 for only an extra $100:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1855426-REG/fujifilm_16900771_x_m5_mirrorless_camera_with.html
Very handy wide angle too, starting at 15mm!
Yes, that will be Fujifilm's biggest problem. Trying to keep the X-M5 in stock and on the shelves!
Everyone who can't get their hands on the out of stock (or too expensive) Fujifilm X100VI is going to get the X-M5 instead. 

Depends on how you define "prosumer", but arguably when we're being given 6.2K @29.97fps in 10-bit (with 12raw output too, and anamorphic support!) then couldn't you say the release of the X-M5 is indeed supporting prosumer shooters? I kinda think it is. 
I had been thinking if I buy a new camera next year (highly unlikely, but always possible) it would probably be a cheap Sony FX30. 
But perhaps this Fujifilm X-M5 is worth a look? Especially as it would be priced substantially cheaper than a FX30. 
Heck, for only a hundred bucks more you even get a handy 15mm to 45mm zoom lens:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1855426-REG/fujifilm_16900771_x_m5_mirrorless_camera_with.html 
I guess the lack of IBIS and TC would be the biggest two negatives for me. And perhaps the overheating. But....
https://petapixel.com/2024/10/14/fujifilm-x-m5-first-impressions-a-surprisingly-powerful-little-hybrid/
"If you need to record for long periods of time, you can shoot a long-play mode which still has the 1.18x crop but should dramatically extend record limits and avoid overheating. There are two screw mount brackets to allow the attaching of the Fujifilm cooling-fan unit if overheating needs to be more acutely avoided with the intensive record modes."
Handy!
I feel Panasonic has abandoned a little the MFT market underneath their flagship GH7/G9mk2
We used to have the "Gx series" (G3/G5/G6/G7) that were solid budget options. But the G9 changed that, being a flagship camera. And the G90/G100 just don't cut it in comparison. 
We need a "Panasonic G7mk2"!
Fujifilm's X100 series cameras have been massively popular. This new X-M5 with a pancake lens is the perfect camera for everyone who can't get their hands on an out of stock Fujifilm X100V or X100VI.
Or heck, this X-M5 is also perfect for everyone who simply can't afford a X100 series camera! Because a Fujfilm X-M5 with a TTArtisan 27mm f/2.8 autofocus lens is still a lot cheaper than a X100VI (heck, get a TTArtisan AF 56mm f/1.8 autofocus lens too! You're still a lot cheaper than a X100VI)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732752-REG/ttartisan_af2728_x_b_af_c27mm_f_2_8_lens.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1815332-REG/ttartisan_af5618_x_b_af_56mm_f_1_8_lens.html 

I feel the release of that as well was just a coincidence in the timing, they should have perhaps more fully separated the release timing? 
 
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-viltrox-28mm-4-5-af-pancake/
oh wow! "Full frame" too
Only is available for Sony E Mount, but I guess they'll eventually release an X Mount version? With it being FF on APS-C it should have good corner performance too. Won't have the slight color cast in the corners that this lens has on Sony a7 series cameras. 

It seems Panasonic stopped listening to their customers. A 10bit GX or a S9 with Evf, hotshoe and mechanical shutter would be a relevant decision to give customers what they want instead of wanting them to want something else.

I agree that Lumix seems to be wasting an opportunity in the small "pocket" camera market. I think a GX80 successor with the G9's innards with PDAF, mic input and headphone jack would be a real winner, especially with the Realtime Luts. With the tiny lenses M4/3 has it could open a whole new market for Lumix.
The GX80 is the only camera i have ever regretted selling. I'm mainly a video guy (professional) but I've just ordered a secondhand GX80 and a couple of tiny primes to try to improve my photography as for me it hits that sweet spot of small size and usability. I had looked at the GX850 but it lacked physical controls. The tiny primes and zooms really should be a strong selling point.

Unless proven otherwise, it's safe to say that Panasonic had the S9 pegged to replace small M43 cameras. Everything GX is looking long old and massively out-speced. Sadly, Panasonic would have needed just 1 real pancake lens to make the transition to the S9 a reality, but apparently that was too much to ask. Now, Fuji, with the X-M5, is going to have small M43 cameras for lunch, spit them out and collect dust on the shelves of mpb. What a tremendous opportunity blown for Panasonic as they drive themselves and M43 into irrelevance.

Zhiyun Crane-M 3S and FeiyuTech Scorp Mini 2 would be contenders.
Both are reasonably compact and not outrageously expensive and offer camera control as well as having enough weight handling to cope with much bigger cameras too with expansion options for focus motors.
The Scorp Mini 2 has additional useful functionality with its built in AI tracking.

Yes, i ordered one and will let you know. Question also is wether the 27mm pancake that is unavailable most of the time will be available as i believe everyone will want it for this camera...

Yeah man, GX9 was their greatest compact cam... and they abandoned it completey.
They definitely have the tech to do a XM5 that is for sure
 
If I hadn't got x100vi I will be really considering this cam, perfect for social  

This is so good, I m pretty sure any camera in his hand will turn cinematic.

Here’s the rub: imagine if the S9 and X-M5 were the same price. We’re essentially talking about ecosystem, mechanical shutter vs. none, and IBIS. For 'small and portable,' Fuji has the lenses, whereas Lumix is apparently struggling. I’d be okay without a mechanical shutter, but the problem is the X-M5 is significantly lighter and has one. Factor in the massive value proposition, and the X-M5 takes the cake. Panasonic has a serious problem, but its saving grace is the IBIS. You could argue that Panasonic is smaller because of the IBIS, whereas with Fuji, you either need to carry a tripod or a gimbal. Their EIS isn't cutting it for me. Still, I’d keep an eye out for Black Friday deals because Panasonic has traditionally been very competitive. The real question is: will there be any X-M5 cameras available by then, or will they all be sold out? My guess is they’ll all be gone.
Looking at the two cameras, though, I prefer the Panasonic’s aesthetics. Since I already have the S5 II, I’d probably stick with Panasonic (if there’s a massive deal). Otherwise, the S5/S5D is still an option for a second camera.