IronFilm

D.I.T Hell

i followed cranky's channel for some time now. i accidentally stumped on his video on amira, which he thinks the best eng cam. 

That's why a lot of the Sony EX3 shooters would pair with with a nanoflash recorder for more premium shoots. 
Of course the  Panasonic AJ-HPX3000 doesn't have that problem with its 1080p 10bit 422 😉
Correct!
Yeah, it's always a trade off somewhere with these older cheap cameras! 😞
1) very lightweight codecs (sometimes you can work around that, with external recorders. Or it doesn't matter, as you're using it for live streaming purposes)
2) teeny sensors (well... even 2/3" is "small", but it's "large" relative to this, and what I'd prefer. But I'd like at least 1/2" like the EX1/EX3 is, not any less)
3) only 720p and/or 1080i (this is a very common issue with the Panasonics, they were slower
4) not worldwide (you can't do both 25 & 30)
5) no SDI (quite a few of these older / lower end ones would only have RCA as the video output, or might have SDI but only SD not FHD over SDI)
6) no interchangeable lenses (ideally B4 mount, but something like EX3's mount I guess I could live with that gets adapted to B4)
It's quite hard to find an older camera which hits all of these points and stays well under US$1K in being easily able to find 
Sooo true! I need to resist. 
Today a mate on Instagram (he's an EOSHD user too) asked me about what gear I had in mind to get:
Me: 
On the topic of Sonys, if you know about anybody looking to buy a Sony FS7 I've got one for sale
Time to sell it and buy more sound gear instead
Oops, slip of the tongue
I meant, and NOT spend more money on gear 🙄😅
Him:
Ohh what gear u looking for next 😏
Me: 
Thinking I might move a bit more over from Lectrosonics to Sony Digital
Might also change my Lectrosonics IFB setup from running in blk22 to blk20
Although ugh, that's such a big hassle as I've got so much stuff in those frequencies
But these Sonys are so wideband , blk22 creeps into the bottom of it, and I'd rather keep my Lectrosonics IFB transmitters going out of my bag far away from my incoming receivers frequency range
Also why I want to buy a RF filter I think, turn my wideband into narrowband ish.
I kinda want two of these: https://www.rfvenue.com/hardware/rf-accessories-and-parts/band-pass-filters But they have nothing in the frequencies I need it to be in 😞 This is a new product, not in production and available to buy yet, however I think it could be the closest to what I need: https://www.audiowireless.co.uk/online-store/DIGITALLY-TUNED-DUAL-ANTENNA-FILTER-DT-BOOST-2-p481882216 Just waiting on specs/price I guess, fingers crossed! 
Him:
Oops I shouldn't have asked 😂
Me:
haha, and that's just scratching the surface!
although yeah nah, I need to resist spending any more money this year. But I earlier this year upgraded my boom audio to having two Sony DWT-P01N transmitters (for the last several years my Boom Ops would use Sound Devices MM1 running into a Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid bodypack transmitter), as I felt that was a better path than going with Lectrosonics DPR or Shure AD3 transmitters which were the other two main choices for digital wireless that I was considering. However that then just opens the door to lots of other changes I want too

Just got to have plenty of light and be ok with deeper DoF! And be ok with FHD, and not 4K. And not need slow motion. 
Both traits/requirements that are perfectly fine for the gigs that The Cranky Cameraman was on in those videos. 
His channel in general I think is quite a good watch for lots of people who visit EOSHD who are at that sort of level (doing solo or very small crew work, but still making a very good living from that). 
Here is another video talking about EX3 vs FS7:
 The evil camera gear GAS bug bites me in wanting a Sony PMW-EX3 as well. (or the even cheaper EX1)
Or hey, I've been commenting a bit lately about the Panasonic Varicam LT & Panasonic BS1H, so maybe I should look more into the Panasonic equivalent?
I don't know the Panasonic range so well though, what would be the Panasonic equivalent to the EX1/EX3 from Sony? 
Perhaps the Panasonic AG-HPX250? (kinda equivalent to the EX1?) Or the Panasonic AG-HPX300 / 370 (kinda equivalent to the EX3??) Or go nuts for the big beasty Panasonic AJ-HPX3000, with 1080p 10bit 422 (body only is US$1.5K on ebay right now, but no lens / cards / batteries ) 

Actually I like EX1/EX3 color better than FS7/FS5/FX9/FX6 etc. That CCD vintage wine tastes well. 

12K and Broadcast G2 only.

Ummm... all of them?? (except maybe RED Ranger???)
Although the more modern ones will do better. The RED ONE of course being the worst, I was on a shoot where they draped frozen bags over it. 
Like I said, RED is infamous for this. Hated by the sound department, as we'll go over and ask for them to turn their fans down, and they'll whine "no we can't, otherwise it will overheat". 
But in you case, you'll be using the more modern-ish DSCM2 body, and you don't need to care about the sound dept, you can just happily crank up that fan to go at max noise all day long. 
Yup, this is why I think there is a strong argument for a Blackmagic Design, or Panasonic Varicam LT (or even EVA1 / S5 / S1H / BS1H ) or Fujifilm X-H2S or old ARRI ALEXA rather than a Sony or RED

It's super nice and highly educating to read about all the different alterations of Red bodies and sensors. To read about Geoff Boyle is a very beautiful thing @IronFilm  He was one major inspirations to me with his hands on attitude and to the point avdices he shared on his forum and in various interviews and videotaped:) workshops. I remember his evaluation of the Varicam. I remember him very dearly as one of the most impactful and supportive public figures of the arts and craft of cinematography.
The original post of this thread has been narrowed down by og poster to be privately filming landscapes with 60min of footage per trip. A S1H will be perfect for that or a used S5.
But you can of course buy a Red package for the amount of money you wanna spent and share your findings with us and maybe some of your filmed and edited material. Looking forward to it. Or get an Amira, if your hobby is worth to you a dime or two. @Jedi Master

A little more about the Panasonic Varicam LT for you to consider: 
https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/06/26/field-testing-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-a-hands-on-review-for-solo-shooters/ 
https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/06/03/panasonic-varicam-lt-do-i-like-you-an-owner-operators-perspective-from-miguel-toran/ 
https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/07/18/the-gods-of-fire-2k240fps-raw-recording-with-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-and-odyssey7q/ (you don't have to go with Convergent Design: https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/23/atomos-announce-a-free-cdng-raw-recording-firmware-update-for-shogun-inferno-flame-and-the-original-shogun/ ) 
https://*banned URL*/2017/05/review-panasonic-varicam-lt
https://www.provideocoalition.com/review-panasonic-varicam-lt-4k-super35mm-cine-camera/ 
https://www.provideocoalition.com/panasonic-varicam-lt-review-part-2/ 
https://*banned URL*/2016/07/panasonic-varicam-lt-review 
https://cinescopophilia.com/comparing-to-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-to-the-sony-fs7-camera/ 
Geoff Boyle is a very very highly respected cinematographer, here is what he has to say about his tests with the Panasonic Varicam LT:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/03/31/which-cine-camera-produces-the-best-image-geoff-boyle-has-surprises-in-store/
https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/03/09/bve-2016-cinematographer-geoff-boyle-says-arri-have-a-problem-likes-varicam-lt-image-uses-c300mkii-autofocus/ 
https://www.cinematography.net/Panasonic-VaricamLT-RAW-UHD-2017.html 
 
https://definitionmagazine.com/reviews/review-panasonic-varicam-lt/ 
 
If you want to go super lightweight (although I know weight doesn't matter much to you, but it might for other people reading this), you could consider "the baby Varicam LT", the Panasonic EVA1:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/06/03/panasonic-au-eva1-first-impressions/ 
They're sub $2K now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/335107746560 

The Venice 6K is a certified Hollywood A-cam and I don't think it should be compared with the Burano, as the latter only offers X-OCN LT. That is a significant downgrade from the RAW and X-OCN options on the Venice cameras. My hope is that if they do bring out a Burano 6K, it will have X-OCN XT and ST because of the lower resolution and the fact that the Venice 6K is a much older design. In scenes with a lot of movement or change, X-OCN will scale resolution, especially when it comes to the LT compression. That is how Sony's X-OCN avoids artifacts. This means that Burano's 8K X-OCN LT will not be a true 8K image in all scenarios.

It's gonna be a personal preference thing in the end.
You'll get cleaner high ISO performance on the Sony. The Canon has internal RAW vs you need with an Atomos or the unit to do it with the Sony. 

The Sony can't do full sensor 4k 60p. You have more lens options with E-mount. The canon is easier to mount on a gimbal. 

If your only gripe with the FX6 is the mount then you can get a locking EF mount that has bottom support, making it bullet proof. Of course that isn't an option with emount. Although I feel emount lenses don't really need a locking mount as they are pretty light. You'll love Sony E-NDs. 

The FX6 is pretty amazing for fast paced stuff. It barely weighs anything yet the body is big enough where it isn't awkward to rig up. E-ND's are out of this world nice to have. 

I struggle to see these digital medium format cameras as anything but pure stills cameras with occasional video use.
Hasselblad didn’t even bother with the video side with the X2D.
Or forgot.
Money no object, still my dream stills camera.

haha, yeah, put the Panasonic BS1H inside a Tilta camera cage, slap on a few RED stickers, and use it with the RED branded lenses (nobody will guess it isn't "a RED"! haha):



I have been very often tempted to get the RED 17-50mm or 18-50mm Cine Zoom. Or even the utterly insane RED 18-85mm lens!! It is a beast. Well, for me to use it. As I'm not used to that. But I work every week with camera ops using lenses such the Canon 17-120mm T2.95 and the Canon 25-250mm T2.95 Servo PL Lenses:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1633520-REG/canon_4573c011_cine_servo_25_250mm_t2_95_pl.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1043631-REG/canon_9785b002_cn7x17_kas_s_cine_servo.html 
But more seriously, did you know you can get a RED Scarlet brain for just a grand and a half on eBay? (sadly just the MX sensor though, but for another US$500ish to a grand more, you could pick up a RED Scarlet Dragon. Or the RED Raven brain can be found for roughly sub US$2K, it is a Dragon sensor within the newer DSMC2 system. But with the RED Raven you're stuck with EF mount only, and it's sensor is unfortunately a little smaller than S35)
Maybe slightly over $2K-ish for a more complete RED Scarlet package that you just need to add lenses and V Mounts to. 
Perhaps I should have added one more option to this:
RED Scarlet MX camera for US$2K (or RED Raven). Is a little more expensive than going with a Pocket 4K or Micro Studio G2 setup, but a fair bit cheaper than a BMD URSA Mini Pro and a lot cheaper than an ARRI ALEXA Classic. Yet this camera body will be a lot more portable than either! (for gimbals / steadicams / car rigs / ceiling rigs / cranes / jibs / sliders / etc)
Of course in "the real world" a RED camera is fairly worthless, especially one as old as this. But in the no budget indie / student filmmaking world, a lot of them still drool over the "RED" name. 

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately depending how you look at it, the skill to get in now doesn't need to be as high anymore. Even many people at very lofty levels of the film industry are not as skilled as they used to be. 

DP's can utilize high resolution color accurate monitors to see what they are getting rather than light metering. Cameras are so sensitive now you don't need crazy light fixtures. A lot of big budget shows are now are using mostly small LED fixtures combined with natural lighting. There's certainly a level of skill still required especially on the biggest of productions but it's become less and less. 

Think about changing a 35mm film mag vs digital media. Same with getting good results shooting 35mm film for a wedding vs digital. Night and day 

@bjohn, you need to get a digital camera that looks like a film camera such as the Nikons Df and then she'll never be able to tell if you're being responsible shooting digital or being evil using film 😉

@bjohn, you need to get a digital camera that looks like a film camera such as the Nikons Df and then she'll never be able to tell if you're being responsible shooting digital or being evil using film 😉

I think its the Burano honestly. Same sensor as the 80K Venice 2. Doesn't require the bulky raw recorder, weighs 3 pounds less. Why would you get the old 6k Venice when you can get the Burano for 25k. Now at 18k the original Venice is tempting, but for just a few more Ks you get brand new camera. 

The Burano doesn't have as many output or power output options though, but neither does the Alexa mini. 

My partner works at home several days per week and in her employer's office the rest of the time. When I buy camera or video equipment on eBay I try to time the shipment so it arrives when she's not here. Doesn't always work out that way, though. But she pays so little attention to my equipment that she doesn't even notice when I'm using a new camera or lenses. She has her own obsessions, although they're cheaper.
The only resistance I've encountered from her is my re-entry into the world of film (photography, not video). She views it as a waste of money but especially as an avoidable environmental impact, from cradle to grave (manufacturing the film, distributing it to retailers, processing it, and ultimately disposing of the negatives). Lots of materials and energy use, all of which could be avoided if I stuck to shooting digital. Some people argue that the environmental footprint of a new digital camera is much larger than that of an antique film camera and hundreds of rolls of film, but if you already own a digital camera that's not the way to look at it: every roll of film has an avoidable impact. I agree with her about the environmental impact and I try to limit my film photography because of it, but I love shooting film enough that I continue.

My year 11 English teacher decided that there wasn't enough life education in school, so he told us stories, and let us sleep in class, but still taught us what we needed to pass the tests.
One recurring theme he'd tell us stories about was how he'd get away with buying hifi equipment and smuggling it into his house without his wife finding out.  The most memorable one was how he got away with buying a pair of large subwoofers, which were about 1 meter/yard cubed each.  
Here's the procedure he recommended:
Buy them, but have the store hold them until you can arrange a good delivery time Subtly arrange for your wife to be away overnight (e.g. concert tickets for her and a friend to something she'll like but you won't and then a "girls night" stay at a hotel afterwards) Arrange to have the subwoofers delivered as soon as she's gone Put them in the corners of the room Cut some plywood to cover the sides of the subwoofers that aren't against the wall, so it's not visible Cover over the ply with a nice tablecloth and have it go all the way to the floor Put a pair of matching fancy trays and a pair of plants your wife likes and put them on top When your wife comes home, tell her you bought her some plants, if she asks about the boxes, just say they're boxes but change the subject After a few months, remove the false boxes and adjust the cloths so they don't interfere with the subwoofers, and wire up the subwoofers Only use the subwoofers on very low and only when she isn't home After another few months, you can start using the subwoofers while she is home, but only very very subtly If she ever notices, say they've been there for years and act surprised she doesn't remember - immediately start talking about their specifications and history of the company so that she is eager to change the subject I enjoyed his English classes.

One of the most useful pieces of technical advice that has appeared on this forum.

Add one more reason:
If (like me) you already own a couple of the original Micro Cinema Cameras, you can buy this one and your spouse/partner will never notice that you bought (yet) another camera.
Seriously, though, for me this is an interesting option because I already have everything I need for it (cage, monitor, bigger external battery (the one Dmitry Shijan made), but it would give me much better low-light performance than my Micros which is important for some of likely situations in my case.

Yup! That's why I rated it as one my camera releases of note from 2023: 
 

It's late 2023 already?? Where did the year go!! Scary, scarier than Halloween was. 
Just limiting ourselves to cameras released within the past year? 
The easy top three cameras of note for me released in 2023 are: 
Sony FX30 (came available for sale in stores later 2022, so just barely-ish squeaks in here if you look at the past 12 months or so). Is the latest S35 cinema camera from Sony, and also their most affordable one ever!
The L Mount camera from Blackmagic. Finally, another mirrorless mount cinema camera from BMD! Been a long time since the P4K was released. 
Blackmagic Design Micro Studio Camera 4K G2. It's a big upgrade from the previous Micro Studio Camera, especially for film shooters as it's now so much more than "just a studio camera". If you're an OG BMPCC user who thought the BMD "Pocket" 4K was too big for you, then this Micro Studio G2 is the upgrade for you! Plus it  is cheaper than ever, is priced at sub US$1K, even cheaper than the Pocket 4K. Don't be fooled by the "Studio" in its name, yes it is packed full of studio specific features, but in a way this is also their new "Micro Cinema G2" camera as well. 
 
Opening it up to any cameras that exist? Then "it depends", just whatever is suitable for the job at hand. 
Even a super old Sony EX3 might be the right buy for me these days. 
Although I think I'm going to sell my Sony FS7 soon, and just not buy anything else for the foreseeable future.  Juggling working kinda full time in the Sound Dept plus studying CompSci full time too, means there simply is not enough hours left in the day to devote to chasing down camera gigs too and developing my craft. I've done very little of that this year. 
And I think if I ever do try to take the camera side of things (rather than an exclusive focus on the Sound Dept) more seriously, then I think I'll be doing one of three options: 
1) just shooting ultra low budget indie drama stuff, not really caring too much about the money, simply doing it for the love of it, and whatever 
That means buying one of: 
Going fully nuts and getting an ARRI ALEXA Classic, splurging an amount that doesn't make any financial sense at all (but the Alexa Classic is so dirt cheap these days, it's not that much to indulge in as a hobby passion. Many people spend more on golf / fishing / drag racing / Ironmans ) 
Going more sensibly low budget with a Blackmagic (be it a dirt cheap P4K or BMD Micro Studio Camera G2, or a secondhand URSA Mini Pro) 
Or continue my love affair with CineAlta, and get a dirt cheap Sony PMW-F55. 
2) going into the multicam live streaming niche, this probably is where the overlap of my skillset / personality and business opportunities overlap to make the most sense from a financial perspective 
Which means one of these options:
Buying up a handful of old Sony EX3 cameras on the cheap (maybe mixing in a few other Sony models, such as my Sony PMW-F3 that I'm stll keeping)
Buying a handful of BMD Micro Studio G2 cameras. Gives a better image, gives me 4K as well. Integrates nicely with the BMD ATEM ecosystem. But it could be marginally more expensive for the whole setup, once you've rigged out the Micros with everything. And I have a lot of questionable suspicion about if even brand new BMD cameras will be more reliable than secondhand old Sony PMW-EX3 cameras. Plus a Micro vs EX3 looks less "impressively pro" at a conference / sporting event, if you care at all about client impressions. (which do actually matter a lot) 
3) going hardcore into some ultra techy geeky niche, that has relatively little competition. Such as 360VR filmmaking, although sadly 360VR turned out to be a fleeting fashion fad which these days there is no interest in. (maybe it is not too late to jump onto the hype of virtual productions such as The Mandalorian used? But that's more about massive time and money investment into computing power / workflows and huge LED walls. And not at all about cameras you'd be buying for it) But if I was to go into 360VR, then I'd do one of: 
Multiple Sony RX0mk2 cameras, for the first ever 4K 10bit and waterproof multicam rig for 360VR
Multiple ZCam E2-M4 bodies, this seems like a fairly well proven and very low cost option for high quality 360VR filmmaking. Definitely the safest bet option out of all of these I'm listing in the 360VR category. 
Multiple Sony FX30 bodies, a bit higher cost than the E2-M4, but I get to carry on a love affair with CineAlta into the 360VR world. However, this is an unproven configuration nobody else has done. And the body form factor is much more awkward than the body E2-M4 bodies. 
Multiple BMD Studio G2 camera bodies, another unproven configuration that nobody else in the world has done. But their form factor should be ideal for this, and might make for a better image quality (or at least a more familiar workflow for productions, an equally important consideration, or arguably is an even more important) than the ZCams have. But, one big benefit of this choice is I could also use these multiple Studio G2 camera bodies for multicam live streaming! Multiple revenue sources? Just need to swap out the UWA MFT lenses for B4 zoom lenses with adapters.
Multiple Panasonic BS1H camera bodies, this is the dream! It would be a low light monster, the best the world has ever seen with 360VR filmmaking (although... this means this is also an unproven configuration, as nobody has ever attempted this. But the BS1H form factor is at least good for this). Although, this is the most expensive option by far! However, the BS1H has seen such a massive drop in price recently, that if I could get a little bit of funding behind me for a 360VR web series, then this could be a viable option to go with. 
 

XDCA module was part of Sony's legacy design. On the FX9, it allows for much more than 16-bit RAW and 4k 120 (S35). You can power a giant B4 lens, for example, and offset the weight. You can also stream and transfer files. It's a full professional feature set for those who need it, especially broadcasters and those in field recording. This is all before they integrated RAW output into the body of the FX6. It will be interesting to see how they move forward with the FX9 II design in case they drop the module or modify it.
At the moment, we have the aging FX9 at $10K and the brand new Burano 8K at $25K. That's a huge price gap in the Sony cinema lineup that they need to fill. The "Burano 6K" could fill that gap nicely and still separate itself from both cameras. I believe the "inflation adjusted price" for the F5 was $3000 over MSRP, so I'm not sure how that will work.
I think you will find buyers for the FS7 who don't want to pay FX6 prices. It is still a capable camera and perfect for many applications. I still shoot with the C500 (original) and the image is great, especially in RAW. The only problem is the size/weight of the camera and Odyssey recorder when all rigged up.

I didn't need to even wait until my next gig on Monday! I'm here at a Halloween Party 🎃
 
And totally unprompted, Captain America himself brought up "The Creator" and that it was shot on a Sony FX3: