Fritz Pierre

You won't believe this, but my horoscope for today said exactly the same thing! 

??perhaps my favorite quote of the day!

??perhaps my favorite quote of the day!

Yes...Arri's creamy image is not the only reason why so many get used in feature films...that they are built like tanks and keep working day in and day out, is also part of that equation...if you put a professional camera dept on Dslr style cameras on a properly designed and lit set with wardrobe and all the bells and whistles and a DP who hardly operates...a first and 2nd and depending on the size of the shoot even a 3rd AC...in other words the same treatment and expert crew the Arri gets, be the Dslr a Canon or Sony or Panasonic, and then properly treated in post and by a colorist, the results would be very close...what you get with the Arris is zero downtime...a big part of the choice in that camera goes beyond image. It's about the cost and how an unreliable or sufficiently robust camera can make or break a shoot.
 
@Tim Sewell Excellent point about bulk buys for TV stations or learning instutions...one can probably add rental houses to that equation too...and more importantly...the choices DP's make re what cameras to use when shooting with a $100,000 a day crew...the numbers tend to radically alter the choice.

I'm not sure why...I have a few projects in developement...although I would personally use the Varicam LT and a DP for the first, if I was making an Indy film for say $500,000, would I risk the BMD camera, or would I use a camera made by a company the size of Panasonic....personally I love the image their cameras produce...the ergonomics and the incredible reliability of their cams....I've owned 6 and none of them ever skipped a beat...if my film was at stake, that's what I would consider...not whether this camera has AF or it's within $2,000 of an UM...who cares, if the camera fails, and your project collapses...and you're struggling with a small company to back you up...but of course...that's me...and that's what would be important to me...your needs and choices are different...so are your considerations...but I don't think if Panasonic produced a simple robust Cine camera, for the purposes of say shooting low budget projects, people will reject it..for the UM...people who love BMD will go that way regardless as will people who love Panasonic with the Panny...whether 6000 or 10,000...one buys a camera in this price range, because you're using it to shoot commercials or films or tv, but it's already inside the category, of having to earn money for you...otherwise the dslr style cameras are just fine for day to day, or professional work, depending on what clients require...and within most people's budget.
 

I guess that's how Mel Gibson got best director for Braveheart lol...anyway...I get the frustration though!

Fincher doesn't come to set anymore. From what I heard, literally Spacey didn't want to direct, and she said "hey, I'll do it" *cough, two paychecks*. They said sure, because there are so many people it can't really go wrong.

I looked at the Kinefinity cameras...though I have to say I preferred the form factor of the Kinemax...ultimately any questions I had were either only partially responded to or not at all...and I was inquiring as a potential buyer....after a while I decided that buying the cam would be too risky to me and let it go....perhaps with a US distributor I could have gone that way...I found the image lovely though...truth for me is there's probably a large number of cameras I could use...with a professional colorist, good DP and gaffer, any number of cams....even inexpensive ones could yield a lovely image...when you're shooting a wedding or a feature or television series...and have to get the shot, the Kine camera would made me nervous....especially after the communication in my earlier enquiries.

I agree...if I was shooting something alone I would never be out there with a Cine cam of any kind, nor even a rigged out a DSLR style cam...the more low key, the less chance of getting hassled... by police or robbers for that matter...also I should have included IMO in my previous post, as it's all just speculation on my part, as to what Panny will do with this camera...I am working on getting a feature into developement plus have a book optioned (true story) that would make an amazing series on Netflix or Amazon...I would not be a target for this cam either, as if my projects came through, I would opt for the Varicam LT, as it would be perfect for my purposes and already approved for shooting on, if Netflix produces your project.
Yes...but it's probably just a rendering...remember the Craft Camera...I think Panny posted a picture, that they knew would stir lots of speculation...the reason I'm hoping for a locking m4/3 mount, would be that then you could adapt anything and if the s35 sensor cropped to m4/3 and s16 as well as it's native s35 you would have an extremely versatile mount that would also encourage the purchase of Panny lenses, which makes sense for Panasonic business wise....anyway...they're certainly getting a lot of mileage with a rendering and a few forum threads lol??
Agreed...the event is streaming live on their FB page on Friday at the Paramount Theatre...against my better judgement I'm so sucked in by now, I'll be compelled to watch...I'll post the link below in case you're interested.
 
https://www.facebook.com/events/1800044130310599/

I agree...if I was shooting something alone I would never be out there with a Cine cam of any kind, nor even a rigged out a DSLR style cam...the more low key, the less chance of getting hassled... by police or robbers for that matter...also I should have included IMO in my previous post, as it's all just speculation on my part, as to what Panny will do with this camera...I am working on getting a feature into developement plus have a book optioned (true story) that would make an amazing series on Netflix or Amazon...I would not be a target for this cam either, as if my projects came through, I would opt for the Varicam LT, as it would be perfect for my purposes and already approved for shooting on, if Netflix produces your project.
Yes...but it's probably just a rendering...remember the Craft Camera...I think Panny posted a picture, that they knew would stir lots of speculation...the reason I'm hoping for a locking m4/3 mount, would be that then you could adapt anything and if the s35 sensor cropped to m4/3 and s16 as well as it's native s35 you would have an extremely versatile mount that would also encourage the purchase of Panny lenses, which makes sense for Panasonic business wise....anyway...they're certainly getting a lot of mileage with a rendering and a few forum threads lol??
Agreed...the event is streaming live on their FB page on Friday at the Paramount Theatre...against my better judgement I'm so sucked in by now, I'll be compelled to watch...I'll post the link below in case you're interested.
 
https://www.facebook.com/events/1800044130310599/

Yeah but the picture is literally the best indicator here since that is the camera under that shroud. It clearly does not show a Micro 4/3 mount, maybe it has swappable mounts, but it looks like the EF lens is flush to camera mount... so it is most likely an EF lens. And unless they are still using a version 1 model, the EF mount is probably pretty accurate. Now it doesn't necessarily make sense for them to do that, but if you had to be stuck with native glass, I'd rather have the EF than Micro 4/3, but I'd really, really would like to mount c-mounts and Canon FDs and Minoltas, but the productions these will be used for wouldn't probably do such a thing, so EF it is. 

@mercer...you are right in what you're saying and I understand your choice with the 5D and the image that shooting RAW with it gives you access to...but that's not really a question Panasonic will be trying to address with this design...from a business standpoint you are not their target...you call yourself a hobbyist and you can spend a year or to shooting something that's lovely and as you self fund doing something else, that's OK...but people who are actually going to be spending somewhere between 6 & 12K depending on its base price and how it's configured, will have to earn money with this camera...unless they are Trustafarians, in which case they can probably get a used Alexa or an F65 or a Varicam...not even the Varicam LT records RAW internally and Panasonic has already stated that they would not obsolete the Varicam line with this camera...so regardless of all our personal needs and wants in a camera, Panny will have to make the best business decision for this cam as a company.
Doubt that they have accurate info re this camera...Mitch on DVXUser is now working with Panasonic and their Cine Camera line (previously with CD recorder monitors)...the only info from him was that by the time he came on board, the camera was already in full developement...the rumor may be right...a guess based on the picture and the Varicam but at best it's a guess....I'm still guessing s35 sensor with locking m4/3 mount ala LS300.

Lovely footage I found today...not mine??
 
 

Agreed...but one of the benefits of a crew is you control the DR of the scene with lights...the first RED had at least 2 to 2.5 stops less DR than the GH5, and I don't know the DR on The 5D but I presume it's at least a stop North of the GH5...maybe more?...but when you look at what Fincher did with the first RED...he and Soderburgh starting using them immediately, one sees the difference. Of course when you have no or a very low budget every extra stop of DR goes towards helping you get a shot that you'd miss without it...when a top notch DP and his Gaffer starts truly painting with light though, the difference is amazing...

Yes...Arri's creamy image is not the only reason why so many get used in feature films...that they are built like tanks and keep working day in and day out, is also part of that equation...if you put a professional camera dept on Dslr style cameras on a properly designed and lit set with wardrobe and all the bells and whistles and a DP who hardly operates...a first and 2nd and depending on the size of the shoot even a 3rd AC...in other words the same treatment and expert crew the Arri gets, be the Dslr a Canon or Sony or Panasonic, and then properly treated in post and by a colorist, the results would be very close...what you get with the Arris is zero downtime...a big part of the choice in that camera goes beyond image. It's about the cost and how an unreliable or sufficiently robust camera can make or break a shoot.
 
@Tim Sewell Excellent point about bulk buys for TV stations or learning instutions...one can probably add rental houses to that equation too...and more importantly...the choices DP's make re what cameras to use when shooting with a $100,000 a day crew...the numbers tend to radically alter the choice.

Maybe you could consider purchasing Leeming Lut One for Cine-D? It will give you accurate colours straight out of the box.
By using A:6 you're pushing all hues to orange. But the relationship between them will still be just as skewed. Leeming's luts will reallocate the spread of hues and saturation to match a standard Colorchecker.
It should solve the green skin problem.

I'm not in the industry, but I'd hazard a guess that if you're a TV station or an educational institution or any of many other types of organisation looking to buy 50 or 100 cams you'd always go Canon, Sony or Panasonic and avoid BMD like the plague (what? You buy 50 cams and have to send 25 back for replacement?). Likewise, if you're doing anything where serious money is involved at the kind of level at which this new camera is aimed you would (if you have any sense) go for the platform that offers robust, quality products for which replacements are available within 12 hours tops. BMD seem to make great cameras, with lovely imagery - but they're just nowhere near the QC and ubiquity of supply necessary when deadlines have to be met and crews standing around waiting for stuff can't be afforded.

Again, under the right circumstances, specifically a good shooter and a great colorist, the GH5 is awesome.
But those videos did nothing to prove to me it's as good as a Red.
In fact, I thought the Red was staggeringly better... specifically in the shot that showed the cloudy background. The color separation and depth in the Red shot blew the GH5 away.
With that being said, I'm sure the GH5 is a more enjoyable shooting experience, so if you want to put that into the equation (I wouldn't) then yeah... the GH5 is better than the Alexa too. 
Anyway, I am going to politely bow out of this conversation because it is starting to go somewhere mythical. 

Wasn't  that an episode of Black Mirror??

Well that's actually science at work....our brains were hard wired to learn from the mistakes we make from an evolutionary standpoint, so that if we survive the mistake, we don't repeat it (hopefully!)...and all the more compelling reasonswith digital cameras to shoot lean...the cost of film and processing used to force that caution and careful choice before rolling...now it's a question of not shooting so much (and getting something right) that one does not remember but the choice in a shot was...of course nothing works for everyone and this is just something I do...but it's also good practice when one works with actors not to "peak" with them too soon or too late....any creative process is limited....perhaps the hardest choice in art is the decision "I've got it" or "that's the take" or "this painting or sculpture is done"...anyway I'm rambling now??

The big difference you will notice in the sky or a white wall behind a subject....and in 10 bit what you notice is the absence of problems....and of course a huge difference in grading....it's only on a rare occasion that the camera goes near 150Mbps anyway...say when you're shooting a scene with a fast flowing water and ripples...150Mbps is a gigantic amount of information getting written in a second...the discussions about this (not referring to you here) have just defaulted here to is this "150Mbps container" large enough...and the answer is yes...the 400 upgrade is all Intra and though it may handle certain kinds of motion better, so it will have its place in the GH5's toolset, it will not give you a better image than 150ipb under 98 percent of circumstance...when optimal image quality is truly the order of the day, shoot Prores at 800mbps instead on an external recorder....the truth is you'll never really go near that aquisition rate, as probably under those circumstances you will also be lighting a scene with proper production design, wardrobe etc. and on and on...the point is you already have an incredible camera in your hand for its size....or any size for that matter, and for an additional $1000 you can record in Prores to SSD's at 800mbps if the container size is truly a concern.
10 bit is huge....no marketing scam!!!
Leeming said at least  2 stops...maybe even an additional 1/4 or 1/2
Leeming's LUT takes care of this beautifully...even allows you to match Cinelike D and Vlog as at high ISO Vlog seems to get noisy.

The big difference you will notice in the sky or a white wall behind a subject....and in 10 bit what you notice is the absence of problems....and of course a huge difference in grading....it's only on a rare occasion that the camera goes near 150Mbps anyway...say when you're shooting a scene with a fast flowing water and ripples...150Mbps is a gigantic amount of information getting written in a second...the discussions about this (not referring to you here) have just defaulted here to is this "150Mbps container" large enough...and the answer is yes...the 400 upgrade is all Intra and though it may handle certain kinds of motion better, so it will have its place in the GH5's toolset, it will not give you a better image than 150ipb under 98 percent of circumstance...when optimal image quality is truly the order of the day, shoot Prores at 800mbps instead on an external recorder....the truth is you'll never really go near that aquisition rate, as probably under those circumstances you will also be lighting a scene with proper production design, wardrobe etc. and on and on...the point is you already have an incredible camera in your hand for its size....or any size for that matter, and for an additional $1000 you can record in Prores to SSD's at 800mbps if the container size is truly a concern.
10 bit is huge....no marketing scam!!!
Leeming said at least  2 stops...maybe even an additional 1/4 or 1/2
Leeming's LUT takes care of this beautifully...even allows you to match Cinelike D and Vlog as at high ISO Vlog seems to get noisy.

The big difference you will notice in the sky or a white wall behind a subject....and in 10 bit what you notice is the absence of problems....and of course a huge difference in grading....it's only on a rare occasion that the camera goes near 150Mbps anyway...say when you're shooting a scene with a fast flowing water and ripples...150Mbps is a gigantic amount of information getting written in a second...the discussions about this (not referring to you here) have just defaulted here to is this "150Mbps container" large enough...and the answer is yes...the 400 upgrade is all Intra and though it may handle certain kinds of motion better, so it will have its place in the GH5's toolset, it will not give you a better image than 150ipb under 98 percent of circumstance...when optimal image quality is truly the order of the day, shoot Prores at 800mbps instead on an external recorder....the truth is you'll never really go near that aquisition rate, as probably under those circumstances you will also be lighting a scene with proper production design, wardrobe etc. and on and on...the point is you already have an incredible camera in your hand for its size....or any size for that matter, and for an additional $1000 you can record in Prores to SSD's at 800mbps if the container size is truly a concern.
10 bit is huge....no marketing scam!!!
Leeming said at least  2 stops...maybe even an additional 1/4 or 1/2
Leeming's LUT takes care of this beautifully...even allows you to match Cinelike D and Vlog as at high ISO Vlog seems to get noisy.

This JPG image is 8-bit 420 (everything we see online and with normal monitors is 8-bit. To see 10-bit one needs a 10-bit display, a video card capable of 10-bit output such as a Quadro/FirePro, and OS+software capable of 10-bit output (e.g. Photoshop)). The banding was caused by post grading where the 8-bit capture (Vlog?) wasn't sufficient for the grading, whereas the 10-bit version's extra bits allowed the final edit to be compressed to 8-bit 420 without banding. If one can't see the advantages of 10-bit and needs to save disk space, shooting 8-bit is a good idea.

Best bang for the buck. If you want better, go RED at $50-100K+ and by better I'm really talking more about the extra 2 stops and ease of editing access. I don't know what "slider" you're talking about but the difference in grading of more plain backgrounds like sky is HUGE and totally gets me the image that I always wanted the GH4 to give with vlog. The codec and compression goes with the price point but the whole "this is too small for any decent image" is kinda bollocks as it has a good history across all the GH cameras. The kind of conversation goes like this: me- yes!! no magenta blobs in that cloud!! family member- i see no difference, they both look great.