Axel

6 hours ago, docmoore said:

Ad hominem attack is the standard of the day ... disagree with me and I will make you look so low, so incompetent ...

Really guys it is all marketing ... find a platform that works for you ... shut your mouth and show your output.

Ideally if we were all sitting in a pub ... talking then the interchange would be perhaps a bit more civil. Should

be the same here ...

I actually know how it is when Windows and Mac users sit together. No evangelizing, just respect and acceptance for the other's system. Everybody around is fully aware that this is necessary. Don't frown or shake your head. Don't praise a friend's workflows either (despite your internal disagreement), even this poisons the communication, because people tend to be so touchy (why?) that they sense the false tone immediately and find it unbearably patronizing and dishonest. Keep your mouth shut (as you said). Tell outright that you don't participate in discussions about your or their OS or NLE preference. My New Year's pledge.

But then again, someone makes a remark (I won't repeat them, read above). Keeping my mouth shut isn't easy then. But I will. 

42 minutes ago, BearPhoto said:

When i was filming on a gimbal i noticed when i set to 2.8 and wide some how my focus jumps all over.

With "wide" the focus jumps to the closest subject; - well, actually the biggest, because not distance is measured (but stored later in metadata through lens status) but contrast. The closest motif may be the window frame to the left and right border, whereas Godzilla destroying the building in the distance (though he is not the smallest subject) is considered irrelevant. Given you are always steering to an object in the middle, you should then try "center" instead. That's also the closest, but the closest in the center. Then you have the option to lock-on AF,  just starting in the middle. And we havn't discussed touch-AF and moving zones asf. yet. It is complicated, and it needs some exercising.

47 minutes ago, BearPhoto said:

Also axel do you leave on Auto white balance/ Auto iso?

Never.

48 minutes ago, BearPhoto said:

Did you ever change your pan speed and the dead zone for your zhiyun gimbal? 

Frankly, I am no expert yet, neither with the Zhiyun nor with the A6500. I used mojo43's settings, and I'm happy with them. 

18 hours ago, BearPhoto said:

hmm what focus setting do you guys use? I have it on AF-C  focus setting as wide. Im curious how does other ppl film with perfect focus do they have specific aperture and etc? I usually use f 2.8

For AFC, I recommend to see into the various options (focus area, face detection, lock-on AF) as they are described here:

Since the the AF is only as good as the one who programmed it, you can't avoid testing them. But I agree that "wide" works for most gimbal shots. I like f4.0 or f5.6 better (if there is enough light), because the DoF is not shallow and focus transitions won't be as visible.

Speaking about focus transitions, I have "AF drive speed" (Camera Settings 2, page 1, bottom) set to "Slow" (it's faster than I could focus nonetheless, and with "Normal" or "Fast" the AF will jump to the new distance. This does not only look machine-like: depending on the lens you use, this will make "breathing" (a focus transition comes with a little "zoom") more noticeable and distracting. Valid for a native lens with short focus ways (35mm f1.8 or 18108 f4.0) and therefore very fast AF. With adapted lenses like the Sigma 18-35, fast AF speed is better, because it's slower anyway.

I set "AF Track Sens" (page two, top) to "Responsive". Just because it sounds better. Not sure what this is about, the manual says Sets the AF tracking sensitivity for the Movie mode without further explaining it. Can't see a difference.

4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But the reviewer says it's like watching an HD TV from two meters away. 

Before flat panel TVs there was a not-so-popular solution to achieve bigger images: rear projection. That's what it looks like, an NTSC-video rear-projected. But one thing is true: the image is big! 

I saw another review:

Well, it's not exactly "pretty lousy" but not "brilliant" as other reviewers call it. The truth is in between.

On 30.3.2017 at 7:27 AM, Axel said:

Just received used video glasses from ebay, because my display (like your's on the Pocket) is of no use in bright daylight, and I didn't want to add any more weight with an external monitor (will report my success/failure in due time). Have to find better cables and anchorage, maybe I even need a cage (which I'll try to avoid if possible). One day I will venture to the attic and dig out my old monopod (could velcro a long HDMI cable to it) to try one of these higher crane shots. One thing at a time ...

Okay, so I tested the said glasses. They are the Zeiss Cinemizer OLED. This is a positive review, but there are others also. If this is the best video quality for these kinds of goggles, then it's a shame. They'd cost over 600 bucks new, luckily I bought a defective one from Ebay (a dead pixel on the left side, not an issue) for 240 €. The colors are a bit weird, they look faded and remind me of old NTSC broadcasts. You can't enjoy colors, and you can't accurately judge focus. However, since I've seen a dozen or so reviews in advance and most of them say these are state of the art for FPV and superior to Fatshark and the like, I can only assume that the competitors are even worse, and that I made a bargain.

Usability for my purposes? 

+ shows the image the camera records, lag acceptable (like with most external monitors)

+ it's visible even in direct sun

+ adds no weight to the gimbal, and they are quite comfortable to wear

+ I can still see my feet under the image and won't stumble 

- it needs some time getting used to the fact that turning your head doesn't change the frame. Some might feel nauseous after a while.

- with the HDMI-output of the A6500 set to 1080p (the Cinemizer can't read UHD), there is no "HDMI info.Display" (greyed out), so no histogram.

- poor image and sound quality, no immersion, just a framing assistant.

I had various monitors before (Sony, Ikan, Marshall, Lilliput), and I didn't want to buy another. So I'll keep it. Won't use it indoors though, where the Sony's display suffices.

Good to know, thanks.

10 hours ago, Turboguard said:

Thanks for the video, even though I do not own it. I checked the price which is very affordable and it looks like it could handle a BMPCC + Sigma 18-35mm. Will maybe try this out!

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

I haven't tried that combo, but pretty certain it won't balance.

2 hours ago, scotchtape said:

I can't balance it with g7.  That lens is just too heavy compared to the smaller cams and makes it too front heavy.

Will try this with A6500 (size and dimensions comparable to BMPCC). Have the Sigma for MF as my standard lens. If I mount it on the Metabones' tripod socket (connection is moved ~1,5 inches to the front), I guess it would work. Some move the camera further back with a QR-plate (this, and not the weight of the plate, makes the difference):

Too lazy to test it right now, because I want a lightweight gimbal. Turbogard, you should consider a MFT lens for that, see here:

Just received used video glasses from ebay, because my display (like your's on the Pocket) is of no use in bright daylight, and I didn't want to add any more weight with an external monitor (will report my success/failure in due time). Have to find better cables and anchorage, maybe I even need a cage (which I'll try to avoid if possible). One day I will venture to the attic and dig out my old monopod (could velcro a long HDMI cable to it) to try one of these higher crane shots. One thing at a time ...

9 hours ago, noone said:

I have come to see things written about Sony that just doesn't match my experience.    EG ergonomics, colours, skin tone, menu access and even AF in some instances.

Only lately I was tempted to buy the GH5 (after I had sold my Pocket), but decided to give the A6500 a try. Reluctantly, because ...

> I had seen the awful menu of the A7S and A7rii

The menu is a mess. Fortunately, you have the FN-button and can dial M1-M4 for quick access and your preferred shooting modes. 

> I'd never liked the Sony "color science"

There is S-Log2. Within the last 2 months, I learned to expose it properly and (almost, with the help of the histogram) intuitively for every situation except night shots, where Cine1 seems to work better. The DR preserved within S-Log2 is very good, the GH5, 10-bit or not, has less. The colors? I tried a few things and found the Omeneo primers (20 bucks) to be to my taste. Not much headroom left for extreme grading, but I'm not good at that anyway.

> I was sceptic about the usability of AF

Yes, I always focused manually. I still do, with very shallow DoF or in dark, low contrast places. But for most situations, the AFC is better than me. Fast, spot-on, reliable, no hunting.

> I did not like any of the lowlight demos

... but nobody forces me to shoot like this. What's wrong with being able to shoot at ISO 6400 without needing Neat? 

> I heard terrible things about the rolling shutter

I found this to be true. The solution to this is IBIS. Problem solved.

9 hours ago, BearPhoto said:

hey axel im having the same issue as this guy. Do you know if the original guy fixed his issue? I think u said you fixed this issue right? it was becasue it was not balanced? Atm my camera weight is 625 my lens weight is 120g total 745.I have to put my camera all the way in the front. but i dont think its perfectly balance as when i move it to other tilts it does not stay. I bought a quick release plate+clamp hopefully that fixes it. Just curious if its the balance issue or defective. Thanks

 

I can now see exactly why the camera in this video is not properly balanced: It's too far at the front, which could only be the "center of gravity" if the lens was a styrofoam dummy. 

The tilt axis (where the problem exists - the Crane doesn't tilt, resp. stops tilting at a certain angle and falls back) needs two things to adjust: The position of the camera and the thumbscrew on the right side. The free dropbox unfortunately does not support image links any longer, but you can see it here. To make things easier, I copy my description from two pages earlier here:

Quote

 

For light camera/lens combos (< 800g) proceed as follows:

1. Set the yaw/tilt axis to 10mm (= 1cm):

2. Mount the camera roughly in the middle of the mounting plate. Let go. The lens will face straight upwards (all descriptions say: let it first fall down).

3. Alternately push the camera forward ever so slightly and then shorten the yaw-axis step by step: 9mm, 8mm asf. - until the lens starts to point down a bit.

4. Fix the thumbscrew! With my total payload of ~ 600g this happens at 4mm. The camera is also some 4mm away from the edge of the mouting plate.

5. Push the camera backwards on the mounting plate very slightly & check if the lens points directly forward and turns back to this position through gravity. Fine-adust.

6. Tighten the camera screw.

 

If the camera can only be balanced by shoving it completely to the front AND by going beyond zero cm, the tilt won't work = it's too light for this particular gimbal or has the wrong form ( ie. smartphones). It doesn't help much to put on more weight, which I tried as well, here. If at all, you had to make the lens heavier (lead sunshield ), not the camera (cage, QR-plate) or the gimbal (my example) ...

EDIT: Your 120g lens probably is not a pancake and will allow you to balance it perfectly without adding weight.

The Sony A6500 can be powered via USB (but then you can't use a remote, there is only one USB port). The 30 min limit can easily be removed with open memories tweak, and the overheating shutdown can be overridden in the menu (in a test they had it record for an hour in midday sun). I have that checked, but to be honest: I'd never record for more than, say, 20 minutes, because it gets very hot. Can't be healthy for the sensor ...

14 hours ago, Inazuma said:

 

@mercer I don't have it yet actually. Should be here in a few days.

I see. Then you need to know a few things:

> The rolling shutter of the A6500 is really, really bad. To an extend where it's unacceptable to shoot handheld without IBIS. That means you can't use a zoom lens if it can't communicate with the camera. Old zooms can't (=you can't use them), new ones only can if the adapter is reliable. On the other hand, if you have IBIS (or Dual-IS), this spares you a cumbersome rig. You can adapt old *primes* with cheap adapters (of course they must have an aperture ring then too) and still have IBIS, because you can record w/o lens and set the focal length manually.

> AFC of the A6500 is very useable. The E-Mount AF-lenses tend to have servo-rings for focus (slippery, bad for MF) with very short ways, which makes the AF quieter and faster. But of course, with very shallow DoF and if the AFC area is not permanently set to center, you will have problems even with native lenses. 

> with the said Sigma 18-35 and the MB, AFC works for short distances (short ways), but is then too slow for a bigger focus transition with open aperture. This would take too long. My advice: forget AFC with non-native E-mount AF lenses altogether!

Okay, this looks like the said Smart Remote app from Sony. Two questions: 

> will touchscreen focus work when recording video (doesn't with Sony, on the phone only for stills)?

> does the image refresh constantly when you *pan* the camera (as I said, it freezes with the Sony, which makes the whole thing unusable)?

On the german slashCAM forum, there once was a member who passionately hated his GH2. Said it was in no way a cinema camera and tried to prove why. Started many threads, 800 postings in one month. Then someone called him a troll. He was pissed and asked the administrators to delete his account. They refused, and he edited all his postings (possible there at any time, with a timestamp) with "..." (must have taken him hours).

The threads became unreadable. A pity in hindsight, because aggressively criticising something makes others find better arguments, and everybody actually learns something. 

EOSHD has fewer trolls, there is more moderation, and it seems to me germans are not so polite among themselves.

I bought the Sigma 18-35 1.8 EF with a cheap Commlite adapter (70 €). Autofocussed every now and then, because the lens wasn't recognized by the A6500 half the time, and I had to unmount and then mount the adapter again. I thought, well, that's not good, but the Sigma has an excellent manual focus ring, I can live without AF for this particular lens. I was wrong. It turned out that the camera also had no information about the focal length, and IBIS didn't work then as well.

Buy a cheap adapter only if you plan to use primes and MF!

I could have tried the Sigma adapter, but I went for the more expensive Metabones Smart adapter Mark IV (420 €). With the latest firmware (installed with USB), it improves "focus accuacy" and "Advanced Mode". With the latter, you can use clear image zoom (=crop mode). From the Metabones site:

Quote

 

Autofocus speed is very slow and inadequate for most moving subjects. The autofocus speed is unfit for professional use for sure, and it would disappoint most enthusiasts.

(...)

Continuous AF is not supported.

 

Well, AFC does work so-so. As you know, the AFC of the A6500 doesn't hunt. It focusses or it doesn't (if the contrast of the motif's outlines is too weak). The focussing speed is noticeably slower than with native Sony lenses, but for video it's actually useable, as long as the focus doesn't change drastically throughout the shot (too long way to travel from, say, three feet to infinity). Here is a test with the Sigma, decide for yourself.

I will use native E-Mount lenses for AF, because they are faster and quieter (a bit). The cheap (under 500 € in Germany) SELP18105 only has f4.0, but end-to-end, it's famously truly parfocal, AFC works best (@ f4.0 anyway), and the sharpness and general image quality aren't bad either. Imo very underestimated.

Nothing in this price range reaches the Sigma though. It's edge-to-edge sharpness wide open is phenomenal. It is almost parfocal at continous f1.8, the focus and zoom rings are a dream. Sigma, why did you never make an Art-version for E-Mount? 

How do you connect the NX1 to the phone? This allegedly works with Canon DSLRs through USB. I tried the WiFi connection for my A6500 (smart remote app), and the *lag* is actually tolerable (snipping my fingers). But if I pan, the image changes so fast hat it freezes on the phone's screen. A shame, because I really need an external monitor for gimbal shooting outside, when the camera's display, swivelling or not, is way too poorly lit. I don't want to buy a bulky field monitor (even a smallHD would add too much unnecessary weight and trouble with the wiring, let alone expenses). There should be a way to feed the phone with an HDMI signal, but there isn't. I would gladly buy video goggles like for copter FPV, but the lack of any reports on this for gimbal work makes me fear (another) mispurchase ....

I thought I had asked this before: "can you use video goggles with HDMI input (like the Zeiss Cinemizer OLED) as a monitoring device for your Zhiyun camera? FPV style? Has anybody tried this?" - and I started an EOSHD search for "goggles". What I found was an early comment on the MoVI, the first DSLR gimbal, here. Astonishing, how far the technique has advanced in so short a time. Indeed the Chinese took the idea and exploited it. Indeed the things became smaller. Indeed focus is nothing to worry about anymore ...

So: can you use video goggles with HDMI input (like the Zeiss Cinemizer OLED) as a monitoring device for your Zhiyun camera? FPV style? Has anybody tried this?

19 hours ago, bytebuster said:

I always struggle to keep my subject centered when i try to take an orbital shot (going around the subject). Any pointers? I presume I need to use the default follow mode?

I saw a long training course for Steadicam operators a few years ago, and I think the same principles apply to gimbal shots. Before thinking of any complicated movements, the trainee has to learn the basics. I try to sum them up from memory:

• Learn how to walk in such a way that ...

a) ... your arm doesn't follow your body (as much as usual).

b) ... your legs don't extend fully as you walk. Keep adduction and abduction constantly in tension. This may remind you of this:

• If you follow a person, walk forwards behind him/her. Also if you get closer to your motif. This is called the missionary position (really!).

• If a person walks in front of you (or you veer away from your motiv, revealing it's surroundings), don't walk backwards! Just let the camera face backwards. Watch your steps and control the framing with an occasional glance on the monitor. This is called Don Juan. It's very difficult, and at first it seems to be much harder than just walking backwards. It needs to be exercised.

• The next step is a smooth switch (which also means letting the camera face sideways) between Don Juan (the standard) and missionary (the exception), as demonstrated here:

Very difficult!

• Keep the horizon on level. The vanishing point of every structure lies on the horizon, whether you see the actual horizon line (in a landscape for instance) or not. One has to learn to find this line even if it's obstructed by foreground objects (which is the rule). Use grids to better track your movements to this line. A shot in which the horizon moves up and down won't look steady. In this example, the operator walks down stairs.

It's not perfect, because he sometimes loses the horizon. A gimbal wouldn't have a many rotation as a steadicam. But note, how he starts to tilt before the stairs. The tilt is needed to keep the horizon on level, but it needs to be performed smoother so that it isn't as distracting. This is really very, very difficult.

• Activate the crosshair guides and track a certain detail in the scene, first moving and forwards and then backwards. Do this until you became perfect. It sounds easier than it is. Rotate around the motif, keeping the crosshairs on it. That's the solution to your request.

2 hours ago, mojo43 said:

I can try to get a tutorial for that in. 

Yes, please. I use your settings, very good advice.

No, it definitely works with "lite". 

EasyDCP is, as it says, the easiest way to export a DCP there is. Did that a couple of times with my own stuff, and didn't worry about the watermark. Just keep in mind that DCPs usually need to be 24 (not 23, 98...) fps, and that "2k" either refers to 16:9 - 1920 x 1080 (if an HD film runs in between 2048 clips, it will then have narrow black borders on all sides) and 2048 x 1152- or 17:9, 2048 x 1106 (standard cinema widescreen, as you can see similar to HD). Or of course Scope, 2048 X 848.

However, EasyDCP is not free, the licence is like 1500 bucks last time I checked. OpenDCP (for instance) is free, and afaik it now accepts ProRes as input, but the audio needs special treatment. You should then read the FAQ. And test the DCP in (any) cinema in advance!

EDIT: I consider it somewhat risky to have just one day left for your first DCP. It's about as complicated as authoring a DVD, and as many things can go wrong. So either you hurry to get it done on your own and test it, leave the task for someone who did it before or ask the cinema, if their projector likes Blurays or has a scaler (that means the projector accepts any laptop signal like a beamer would). Probably the standard with every newer server-projector-system because it allows to rent the cinema out to companies for keynotes and sth. like that.

7 hours ago, arson519 said:

can anyone tell me why my camera wont turn on when using the control cable for sony? I am using a6300 from app it says im using latest firmware. I have it set to sony in the app but everytime i back out of menu and return its back to default? 

You didn't read my posting on page 16? "With the mobile app, the obstacle is the little swish-movement to exit the manufacturer's  screen ("save" without that doesn't save the setting!)."

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

*Obviously sound doesn't affect the image, but it is a massive part of making something cinematic.

You bet, and it even has been proven scientifically. It was a report in a german magazine for cinema owners some 20 years ago, so I have no links for you to read, but let me explain the method: 

The same film was shown to big audiences various times in the same cinema, in mono and surround, with different sound levels. Right afterwards, the people were asked to sum up the plot on one sheet of paper. The most accurate and most detailed descriptions came from those who listened to the loudest surround screening. A good sound mix also emphasizes emotions much better than the best graded images. Those audiences also generally liked the film more.

Personally, I often think that very much stylized and abstract images with very rich and atmospheric sound and music work best to trigger the 'suspension of disbelief' and let the viewer invent his own, deep and emotional story. Much in the way you lie in your bed and listen to your grandma's voice who reads you a fairytale. Is what you imagine then less intense than the latest Hobbit? I don't think so.

I tested the A7Rii with the 16-35 mm (total payload 1150 g, set to Medium), and it was considerably easier to balance than my smaller and lighter setup of round about half the weight. To fully rotate vertically, I had to unscrew the protection filter from the lens. I thought I'd keep the Ronin M for the bigger camera, but it doesn't seem to make much sense now.

14 hours ago, xenomorf said:

Just mount your own Accessories :-)

;-)

Reminds me of T-Rex-rig ...

I quote myself from another thread:

Quote

I found a simple and effective method to further stabilize my one-hand-gimbal shots, in particular steps. It's kind of the poor man's Armor-Man Exoskeleton, without the ridiculous Transformers approach. I make my own arm a spring arm. Got a giveaway from my pharmacy: a four feet long yellow rubber band (you're probably supposed to do stretching exercises with it). Used it like an arm sling so that I need some force to hold the Zhiyun in a 90° angle. Evens out some of the up-down movements when I walk (and yes, I know how to walk with a steadicam). Thought of building a more sophisticated version with a vest and biker's rubber bands - but why?  Reduce to the maximum!

9 hours ago, ThomHaig said:

Axel, I meant to ask, when you suggested shooting S-LOG ETTR, is this purely a perceptual thing, or is there a setting to so show histograms etc to encourage you to naturally shoot ETTR?

The histogram is the most reliable on-board tool of the A6500 for ETTR. You "just" need to interpret it correctly. You are not supposed to allow clipping on the left side, but in some circumstances you have to. You are not supposed to allow clipping on the right side, but rather there, for two reasons:

1. With S-Log, you have some headroom (110% instead of 100% or so). Additionally, you usually don't leave knee and slope on auto, so highlight clipping is somewhat feathered.

2. When capturing the scene's actual light sources (the sun, light bulbs) minimizing clipping to just one peak in the right corner will result in underexposed mids (and black clipping). The scene has a too big dynamic range to fit in the histogram. If it did (an overcast day, an evenly lit room) you could as well set ISO to 800 (the camera's native ISO with maximum DR) and allow auto exposure with exposure shift of 1-2 stops (Alistair Chapman afaik recommends 1 2/3 stops for the A6300 in S-Log2). So with manual exposure it's up to you to decide which part of the image may clip. mercers trick with the blinking Auto ISO in the display/viewer additionally helps. Rather sooner than later you will realize that shooting with ISO 800 in daylight is virtually impossible without ND and that an ND fader will then be your means of setting exposure (with fixed ISO, aperture and of course shutter).

The problems with this approach are consistency on the one hand and skin tones on the other. Because caucasian skin usually lives at ~ 60%  (with ETTC) it's prone to sit on the gamma curve's knee (~75%) with ETTR. Here it gets scientific. Should I use a grey card? And where should it show on the histogram? 

I used to have raw or 10-bit ProRes with way more values than 8-bit, and I became rather sloppy regarding exposure. Certainly I will never use a grey card for every shot, I will rather test further and learn to expose intuitively with this camera (I am not yet experienced), make it "a perceptional thing".

I found a simple and effective method to further stabilize my one-hand-gimbal shots, in particular steps. It's kind of the poor man's Armor-Man Exoskeleton, without the ridiculous Transformers approach. I make my own arm a spring arm. Got a giveaway from my pharmacy: a four feet long yellow rubber band (you're probably supposed to do stretching exercises with it). Used it like an arm sling so that I need some force to hold the Zhiyun in a 90° angle. Evens out some of the up-down movements when I walk (and yes, I know how to walk with a steadicam). Thought of building a more sophisticated version with a vest and biker's rubber bands - but why?  Reduce to the maximum!

 I have tried to walk under a blanket of black molliton, inspired by ancient wisdom:

But of course - not easy. But I seriously consider building a large, light sunshield surrounding the display before I buy another monitor ...