riccardocovino

I came here to read about Nikon raw and end up questioning about forum policy.

Honestly I like this forum but calling someone an IDIOT because he said that the topic title is misguiding is simply offensive.

I couldn't agree more. All Oscar winner movies this year have been shot with Alexa 2.7K sensor. If Hollywood doesn't need 4K more than DR why should we?

I literally love my 2.5K BMCC format and DR. I've dealed with the form factor easily (I use it on tripod or Ronin so no need to handle it), I love the SSD cheap storage I just miss more FPS for slomo.

A BMCC II with 2.5K and 120 fps would be a killer camera!

I wrote about it on BM forum but little response from users and none from BM.

I'd say

A video

B raw

the wood shelf on the lower right has much less detail in the shadows in the A frame.

right or wrong video quality seems impressive, but the real test is in high detail moving images.

It's also funny how some people knock a camera before even using it. 

 

For example, I have never used a Nikon before for video, and when I get asked if they are any good, I reply with 'not sure, never used one.'

 

Baffling!

What we would be supposed to do when we click on "Comment this article" ?

This place is to share our pov based on what we actually know.

So what is really funny is seeing someone criticizing people who are expressing their opinion about a new product.

Btw, saying "there are bigger sensors", bigger display or lower price and so on is not something that requires testing before.

I don't see any reason for all the love people show for this camera.

The vintage look of Andrew's shooting is 99% from lenses and grading, not from the sensor.

Put an old russian M42 on 5D and you have the same look (or even more vintage, and at cheap prices).

As for handling, I hardly cannot belive that somebody claims superior handling than BMPCC!

You want a grip? you can put whatever grip you want with the BMPCC and make it similar in size and weight to the D16.

This camera is very limited in its possibilities, and the things it does can be obtained with other more versatile tools.

So, as Andrew said, a bit expensive as a 2nd camera (I would say 3rd camera).

If you want it for fun it's ok, but if you have to work with it definitely it's not an option for me.

I thought the topic was BMPC 4K.. am I wrong?

Like $799 for a cutting edge modern anamorphic is unexciting... I can only chuckle at that.

 

The 35mm T1.4 cine lens is already pretty good value at $499, then add the set of two diopters for the price of just one used Tokina ($299).

 

Sorry but you can't fault the pricing.

 

I am not debating about the final price of this stuff, I cannot argue about it until I know the quality of the product by comparing different reviews.

So, pricing is not the problem.

What I'm talking about is this volounteer campaign.

Usually it works in a different way, and there's good reasons for it.

I could think of being an early buyer, but:

- I don't need the 50mm, no matter how it's good or priced

- I want to send the lens back and get money back if I'm not atisfied with it

- I don't want to feel obliged to make a movie for SLR magic 

May I disagree with slr idea of volounteer? :)

PS

If their fear for "evaluation" copies is that they don't come back (as somewhere else stated) there's many solutions for it, including a 1 month trial, after that you send the lens back and they give you your money back, otherwise they finalize the transaction.

So volunteers are basically early bird buyers who cannnot return items, cannot select which ones they want (forcing to buy the 35mm is quite absurd) and have to make a short video for free giving SLR commercial rights on it.

In return? 20% discount on the whole package, plus probably shipping and taxes which bring the price at starting point, if not higher.

Forgive me if I cannot be so enthusiastic about it as others..

They say "mono mic input".. that's quite absurd!

In the video I think he says that the recorder costs the same as the mini.

You're right,

so 4K costs 3200+3200 + VAT means a bit less than 10k. 

More than double the BMPCC.

Than you have to add battery and monitor and/or EVF, you reach FS700+4K recorder price, but FS700 has nicer speed ranges and best mount possible.

All of these manufacturers get close to optimum but don't reach it.

3 Blackmagic models and none of them satisfies me completely (stops, sensor size, rolling shutter, weight, there's always something wrong).

2 Kinefinity models and they seem to get it right but, honestly, price is almost double.

x Canon cameras that make the job but not out of the box and not without limitations.

Personally I think that the first company that puts on the market a camera with the following specs:

S35 sensor size

FullHD

12 stops

Raw + ProRes or Cineform

normal SSD internal recording

2000-2500 $ price

will sale tons!

I think none of us needs 4k, nor wants to use Compact Flash, nor wants to buy add-ons to make the camera work, nor wants to struggle with crop factors, and most of all none of us goes for Raw if dynamic range is limited.

@HurtinMinorKey: KineRawmini is NOT fullframe

@andrew:

I was talking about final price, BMCC is unbeatable.

As for the other features, it depends on everyone's personal need.

Personally I wouldn't care of Cineform output and of 4K (for at least two years), while rolling shutter is important, you're right about that.

Anyway, BMCC lets you be in the Raw professional era for less than 3k (and BMPCC for 1.5k), while KRmini lets you enter for more than 5k euro, giving you more, so prices are quite balanced.

Above all, it will be a serious competitor in the brand new market of Raw cameras below 5K, and the extra features are worth the money.

I think total price is quite subjective.

With the 5D I would go with no-brand batteries (so take out 400 euro) and I wouldn't put a cage as a must-buy (take out other 400 euro), while the KineRaw mini would have to include the EF electronic mount (+489 euro)

so totals should be:

5D 3700 euro

KRmini 4700 euro

and if prices are VAT excluded we should go up to 5640 euro, making it 150% the price of the 5D kit.

And of course, if you put the BMCC in, it's :

2000 for the body

250 ext battery

250 ssd 240gb

total: 2500 euro

clear winner, only drawback is sensor size.

Systems like this will become common and prices will lower..

I was quite sure that movi patented their products (and that was the reason for a high price) but it seems that everybody can do the same legally.

yeah dropbox overload!

Blackmagic is risking a lot with this strategy.

They create hype with amazing announcments, but their fame is much wider for the delays of their products.

The market was asking for FullHD S35 cinema camera, and they gave nothing of this since now.

Nice review Andrew, I'll wait for the comparison!

But this review misses a couple of the most important issues.

- There's no audio input

Currently there's no way to sync external audio to video (except for a clapboard) and if you record an interview, a concert, or anything "live" it  is a big problem.

- Battery drains as fast as an icecream melts in a summer day. You'll have to buy not a spare battery but at least 6 of them for an all day session!

I have a 50D and I would like to use it not just for experimenting, but those issues are still stopping me, much more than the "alpha" status of the raw mod.

Ok for 18k I can buy four 4K BlackMagic cameras and still I can save $2,000 for alcohol and slutz..... 

totally agree. :D

I think it's really a great effort and an incredible result, althought I don't see a commercial future for it.

For half the price BM gives 4k with DaVinci Resolve 10.. who would risk paying double for a one man product?

Respect for the project, even if I wouldn't buy it.

No way they can build a strategy in which the pro apps are running proprietary acceleration like CUDA. A modern OS must be open.

The choice has no relation to being "open", as Apple's policy in everything is the closest possible.

It's a matter of choice based on economical reasons.

I think tests demonstrated that 1000x is not needed with 50D, 600x is enough at a much more reasonable price.

No - I am the Guy who makes $100,000-150,000 from paid video productions.;-))

 

So why do you need RAW?

What exactly do you produce to make living apart from weekly tests(for which we are all grateful ;-)?

Is there any feature film i missed from you. What it it you actually hope to achieve with raw? 

'will you have your name in PROMETHEUS 2 trailer"

RAW is very handy for High End and i really mean HIGH END.

Unless it is the Market YOU yes YOU are involved in,then i understand it- but if you are in High End, then the $$$$ you get paid on weekly basis should be enough to buy 10 Epics ;-)))

...but if it is a hobby, then go ahead and get .............................

I can agree on some points here but your words would make BlackMagic products nonsense, which is not true.

There's a lot of variety in small productions and indie movies, and not everybody has same needs.

Probably one who makes weddings one after the other does not really care of RAW, or he could even consider it an obstacle to his fast and easy workflow.

Instead a indie director who's doing his movie for passion and who does not care about how much time it's going to take but wants to make his little production wwith the maximum attention, detail and quality possible with prosumer tools will have a great benefit from RAW shooting.

I wasn't sure.. so I looked for it and.. bang!

http://philipbloom.net/2010/04/01/canonraw/

this is PB's april's fool in 2010, saying there was a Canon firmware upgrade giving RAW :D

the funniest part is when he writes: "Canon have done exactly what we wanted. RAW baby, RAW! "

Huge thanks go to A1ex, g3gg0, 1% and the whole Magic Lantern team.

I have no other words to describe it - this is huge news.

Magic Lantern have done the seemingly impossible and given us a continuous raw recording mode on the Canon 5D Mark III. Once activated in the menus the 5D Mark III becomes essentially a full frame Blackmagic Cinema Camera and amazingly mine has not yet exploded. No more short bursts of raw, this is the real thing.

Read the full article here

Around 2:10 the grass detail looks very strange on the top half, I'm wondering which kind of interpolation is computed.