Andrew Reid

What I am saying is, whilst we know the raw cameras and F35 are the benchmark for an analogue film look on digital, how close can we get to that with the more practical cinema cameras. What is the magic sauce, the secret workflow, the crafty lighting, the best lenses that can get the C100 II and FS5 closer to the Red One in look and feel? I think time invested in that would really pay off big time.

Uploading now, 250MB zip with following: Scene 1 4K 8bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 4K 8bit SLOG 3 (Color mode: S.Gamut3.Cine 3200K) 1/50 1080p 10bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 Scene 2 4K 8bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 1080p 10bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 If there's anything else you guys want to see let me know.

Magic Lantern raw, 16mm film, RED One, Sony F35... What do they all have in common? They are all a pain in the ass! All fantastic yes. But definitely a pain in the ass. Magic Lantern fills up your 64GB card in 12 minutes. Sometimes it just stops in the middle of a shot. 16mm film is hardly a day to day practicality for most people. The RED One takes as long to boot as it does to go through your brick of a battery! Sony F35, don't even get me started on that hulking beast!! ---- What I would like is a bullet proof reliable camera which shoots with an image similar to Magic Lantern raw on the 5D Mark II but 10:1 compressed raw, runs on a small battery for hours and has a codec as easy to work with as the Red cameras. Blackmagic are likely to get there one day but not just yet. Then I want that putting in a C100 II or FS5 style body, with variable ND and the 5 axis IBIS from the A7S II. Give it the low light chops to match. Then we can finally at long last say... NO MORE PAIN IN THE ASS!!

Funny. I agree with you!!

Here's the rumour - http://nikonrumors.com/2016/01/04/nikon-new-zealand-prematurely-announced-the-d5-on-their-facebook-page.aspx/ All prior ones say it features 4K video. Not long to wait now...

And now another quick shot Again the 5D2 supremely film-like but I really do think the FS5 edges this one for mood. You can bring the shadows up A LOT in S-LOG 3 without noise being a problem. Ignore differences in DOF, I don't have my Speed Booster with me. 5D2 Magic Lantern 14bit RAW at 24p, ISO 200 - 35mm F2.0 (1856 x 1004 upscaled to 3840 x 2160) Sony FS5 SLOG 3 8bit at 25p, ISO 3200 - 24mm F2.8 (3840 x 2160)

That's pretty much spot on now. Shame it could not quite hold onto the sky and trees, but I think pretty good for space saving 8bit convenience versus mighty 14bit raw.

Interesting and wrong.

One of the universe's great mysteries is how Canon manage to go from that RAW image in the camera's memory, to the piece of poo on the SD card masquerading as "1080p" in H.264. The fact is, compressing raw sensor data down to tiny files is hard. I think the FS5 will get closer in the hands of a pro colourist. The FS5's raw output will allow us to apply any LOG curve we like to the data inside the Odyssey 7Q+ And get 4K LOG ProRes out of the other end. Pretty appealing to me!! SLOG 3 is easier to grade. Maybe I should have shot it in that, but I didn't want any banding.

Won't have to touch an exposure control ever again.

No, it's not the same. There's a visible heat sink in the camera, it's very large and there's a fan. Different voltage on the battery too. The LCD is not the same. The EVF panel maybe. The 4K image and codec are significantly sharper than the muddy one in the RX10 II. And even if it shares codec or image processing similarities, everything else is dramatically different such as the sensor, fact it is interchangeable lens, totally different ergonomics, not to mention all the extra stuff on the audio side. Maybe not. You will have to ask Atomos on that one.

Here are the originals. Only included a couple of Cinema DNG frames as the whole sequence would be too big to upload. The original MXF file from the FS5 is in there. http://we.tl/HOACsCROeZ

Thanks for having a go. However it would be better to use the original files. I'll upload them. By the way, this one was exposed to benefit the interior rather than the window. Remember this is a very challenging high dynamic range situation too, especially for 8bit.

Link fixed! Yes hopefully they will address the 10bit mode at least, you can't really justify 50Mbit/s and macro blocking on a 10bit codec as it makes it a bit pointless, especially in situations where it will be used instead of 8bit, like with a green screen shoot.

Starting to get there on the grade now, close to final... Pretty good for 8bit compressed vs 14bit raw I think. The blacks aren't as noisy on the FS5's sensor. I exposed for the window and had a bit of headroom remaining actually. FS5 - 5D Mark II Magic Lantern 14bit raw -

I have my Odyssey 7Q+ on loan so I didn't factor it into the price of the FS5. The used FS700 + Odyssey 7Q+ would have cost me similar to the FS5 or more. Ergonomics are important as is the variable ND. In fact ergonomics are my number 1 reason for getting the FS5 at all, as I already have the A7S II and others. Also I think the sensor is newer in the FS5 / FS7. And additionally it is going to be well supported with firmware as it is the current model. Plus the internal compressed 4K is very useful when you want to keep the file sizes down. Does that answer your question Shield3?

Still can't quite get it close to the 5D2... The colours feel less alive inside and outside the green push looks like an alien has landed. When the FS5 gets the raw update, it will be very welcome.

Today I gave my early FS5 feedback to Sony and the good news is they confirmed another firmware update is in the pipeline. I am allowed to give you some of the confirmed new features, although the release timing and full details are yet to be fully decided. It is clear Sony is going to support the FS5 extremely well! Read the full article

It's graded in Film Convert using the S-LOG 2 FS7 profile. Next I am going to grade it myself and see if it will match the 5D raw The WB was correct on the FS5 in-camera.

Just a quick test, even quicker grade. I am working on a bigger article for this. 5D Mark II raw (24p, ISO 800, 1/50 F2.8) Sony FS5 S-LOG 2 (25p, 4K, ISO 3200 base, 1/50 F2.8)

You did a good job in matching the skin tones across two very different LOG profiles. It proves again it can be done! Canon LOG is just easier but once you get S-LOG all the way there, it's easy to keep it there. You don't need to keep reinventing the wheel once you have a workflow and a LUT that suits you. Skin tones are very sensitive to what you do with the red channel. If the A7R II looks to sharp remember you can always add a light gaussian blur in post!

The flat one. Not quite LOG but better than Rec 709.

So far I've only had the camera for a few days so hard to really give a definitive answer. So far I'm not seeing any big image quality advantage from the FS5 over the A7S II, aside from rolling shutter obviously. And that is pretty important. The 4K looks a bit sharper maybe. I wouldn't upgrade on image quality alone. I'd upgrade for the form factor above all and the following: Built in variable ND (great feature!)Raw upgrade comingMuch longer battery run times and much quicker chargingMuch more dramatic slow-mo and full super 35mm sensor scan in 240fpsBetter monitoring and audioBetter connections (SDI and XLR)Much less rolling shutter in 4KBetter video ergonomics, nice top handle, no need to rig out with cage, etc.Better balancedNot as fiddlyThe built in EVF is articulatedAnd over the C100 II I would have to say off the top of my head: Speed Booster compatible for full frame lookInternal 4K recordingHigh frame rates / cache recordVariable NDPL mount adapter compatibile (can't wait to use my Cookes on it)

Of the alternatives Ebrahim selected the URSA Mini appeals the most as the 'complete' solution, but the power consumption will be mighty high compared to the FS5. It's great being able to run the FS5 off a camcorder battery and having it weight well under 1.5kg fully rigged out ready to shoot. The URSA Mini 4.6K will be at 2.3kg plus another 3kg for all the bits you will need to add to it - the V-lock battery is a big chunk of that. I wish Blackmagic would do an URSA Super Mini 2.5K which would be the old BMCC updated to a nice form factor with less power hungry cooling etc. running off a small battery. I loved that image. Oh and should get 2.5K ProRes and full 4:3 scan for higher vertical res and anamorphic. I find it a chore to carry a very heavy rig around on foot over wide distances in a city. It really slows down a shoot unless you have a crew.

That's just speculation tugela. Also there are two separate issues. There's the bug, not just the performance limitations of the codec. With the edge ripping this isn't internal codec related at all unless Sony are doing something really strange and applying compression / H.264 encoding to the feed that hits the monitor, magnified focus assist and uncompressed SDI. I don't think so! This looks to me like a 4K image processing bug. The performance in 10bit (internal 1080p) is worse than 8bit AVCHD on the C100 II so if Sony want to beat the Canon and live up to their own marketing text they will have to upgrade the 10bit mode.