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Why KineRAW MINI could be your next camera

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:55 PM

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Andrew Reid shoots KineRAW MINI

http://vimeo.com/72646025

Thanks to Michel and Ludwig at HD Videoshop in Berlin for the test unit. Essential primer details on the MINI are here.

The KineRAW Mini is a very cool option in the emerging raw market. With an almost identical range of features and the same 4K Super 35mm CMOS sensor found in the larger, more expensive KineRAW S35, this baby version has a form factor I absolutely love. It is not just small but light as well - very suited to the kind of art-film-on-location shoots I love.

EOSHD takes a brief hands-on look at what the camera offers.

Read the full article here

#2
mtheory

Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:35 PM

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I love the images coming out of this camera and the form factor, I almost ordered this but pulled back due to lack of IS support, will definitely reconsider if they enable it. 


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#3
richg101

Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

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thanks for this little article Andrew.  I have been looking at their website regularly hoping for a UK distributor to pop up.  If I wanted a dumb e-mount or M4/3 on there is it possible?  Speed Booster required! :)  Also, is the DE company supplying to UK?



#4
MattH

Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

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The highlights in the dngs look harsh with this camera.  They look clipped even when they aren't.  Even in the wide shot of the park which looks exposed to the left, the highlights on the bike, the table cloth and the guys back looked clipped.  It doesn't even change if you drop the exposure down to minus 4, the brightness and contrast to 0 and recovery all the way up: they are still there beaming away like solid blocks of bright.

 

I will be very interested to see if the Exposure Index Mode you speak of can be utilised to alleviate this.



#5
Andrew Reid

Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:22 PM

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thanks for this little article Andrew.  I have been looking at their website regularly hoping for a UK distributor to pop up.  If I wanted a dumb e-mount or M4/3 on there is it possible?  Speed Booster required! :)  Also, is the DE company supplying to UK?

 

Will ask the German distributor, I think they ship Europe-wide. No extra VAT or duty within EU, so you don't need to wait until CVP stock one.


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#6
CRFilms

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:37 PM

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I had high hopes the KineRaw S8 would come out and would really shake up the industry with's it's supposed around/under $2k price...then BMD pocket happened...then they dropped the price of the full version...S8, Digital Bolex, DOA.

 

It does kinda suck that we're now in a time when you can buy a cam and have something better come out for the same money in 6 months or have your cam lose half it's value in that same time....Damn you Moore and your damn law!!! :P



#7
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:15 AM

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Better? Or just different.

 

Super 8, Super 16, S35 and even IMAX have existing alongside each other for decades. No filmmaker considers one 'better' than the other, just a different brush to paint with.

 

With cameras, of course there are ones that do the same thing better than another, but I don't automatically consider a camera like Digital Bolex 'DOA' just because it has a small sensor!



#8
zephyrnoid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:20 AM

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I had high hopes the KineRaw S8 would come out and would really shake up the industry with's it's supposed around/under $2k price...then BMD pocket happened...then they dropped the price of the full version...S8, Digital Bolex, DOA.

 

It does kinda suck that we're now in a time when you can buy a cam and have something better come out for the same money in 6 months or have your cam lose half it's value in that same time....Damn you Moore and your damn law!!! :P

Well. Moore's Law wasn't about loss of value at all! Nor did his law address the absurd planned obsolescence of the digital video era. It was about DOING more with more processing speed. What we have today is a futile chase of more POTENTIAL for less money.
You still have to go out there and PRODUCE :D



#9
zephyrnoid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:23 AM

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I also like the form-factor ( yes me, the DSLR hater) . If they can pull all the lessons learned from the rest of the pack, they stand a chance of being the next low budget assignment shooter's dream.
We shall see. The race is becoming HOT !



#10
markm

Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:40 AM

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The problem is it costs £8200 to make the camera function and that's without a monitor. Its competitor should be the BMC which if you factor in a couple of hard drives is £3000

 

How on earth could anyone be considering buying this over the BM's lineup. Or is money not a consideration these days?



#11
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

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£8200? On what planet?



#12
/p/

Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

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Straight conversion from EUR > AUD = $5,600.. $600 more than the 4K BMCC. It won't be a straight conversion though, like everything it will cost even more here.



#13
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:46 AM

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Some seriously wonky maths going on. I can't factor in conversion rates, can only speak for Europe where the camera is currently shipping, for a set price.
 

mini-price-list.jpg

 

Aside from the high performance media which you don't have to buy (you can use generic SSDs) how in any way is the following over priced compared to competing raw cameras?
 
Bodies:
 
5D Mark III = 2700 euro
KineRAW MINI = 3199 euro
 
Basic components for 5D =
4x 64GB CF cards = 500 euro
4x spare genuine batteries = 300 euro
1x monitor = 500 euro
Cage and top handle = 500 euro
 
Total inc. body = 4500 euro
 
Basic components for KineRAW =
2x 120GB SSDs = 150 euro
1x Switronix PB70 = 250 euro
1x monitor = 500 euro
Top handle = 100 euro
 
Total inc. body = 4199 euro
 
Other raw shooting bodies...
 
Scarlet = 15,000 euros (kitted up)
FS700 + recorder = 11,000 euros
F5 + recorder = 16,000 euros
Epic = 25,000 euros
Alexa = 70,000 euros
 
OK it is not suitable for someone to whom $600 for a GH2 is a lot of money I admit that. But c'mon. Enough with the moaning.


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#14
/p/

Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:57 AM

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I think those prices are excluding tax? I went to the stores listed on the kineraw website and the body is listed as € 3.806,81 tax incl.

 

If the price of the body is excl tax then I assume it's the same for all the other prices listed?

 

EDIT: You forgot to list the BMCC which is far cheaper than everything listed.



#15
riccardocovino

Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:22 PM

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I think total price is quite subjective.

With the 5D I would go with no-brand batteries (so take out 400 euro) and I wouldn't put a cage as a must-buy (take out other 400 euro), while the KineRaw mini would have to include the EF electronic mount (+489 euro)

 

so totals should be:

 

5D 3700 euro

 

KRmini 4700 euro

 

and if prices are VAT excluded we should go up to 5640 euro, making it 150% the price of the 5D kit.

 

And of course, if you put the BMCC in, it's :

 

2000 for the body

250 ext battery

250 ssd 240gb

 

total: 2500 euro

 

clear winner, only drawback is sensor size.



#16
/p/

Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

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only drawback is sensor size.

 

What about with speed booster? Doesn't that help with crop factor? (I thought it made crop factor similar to a FF lens on APS-C/S35 sized sensor) +$400 though.



#17
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:34 PM

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The BMCC doesn't have a Super 35mm sensor, isn't very good in low light, the form factor isn't as good, it won't get 4K via an external recorder, can't do off-line CineForm, doesn't have built in LUTs, doesn't have a side-grip add-on, has issues with rolling noise, doesn't do 100fps 720P so I don't see it as a clear winner despite the lower price.



#18
dahlfors

Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:30 PM

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It says: € 3.806,81 tax incl. and € 3.199,00 tax excl.

 

Source: http://www.hdvideosh...t_search=Search

 

So, a BMC or pocket camera is a lot cheaper. However, if the Kineraw can do 100 fps at 720p, it probably can do 1080/2k at 48/50/60p? That can be quite a useful feature that you don't get with a BMC...



#19
markm

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:22 PM

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KR-MINI-BD Kinefinity KineRAW MINI- body only 1 pcs 3,199.00 

KR-MINI-BG Kinefinity KineRAW MINI Battery

Handgrip1 pcs 349.00 349.00

KR-MINI-CO Kinefinity KineRAW MINI - Offline

Cineform Output 1 pcs 299.00 299.00

KR-MINI-Rig Movcam KineRAW MINI Support Kit 1 pcs 389.00 389.00

KR-MAG-256 Kinefinity KineMAG SSD - 256 GB 2 pcs 1,099.00 2,198.00

KR-MINI-AEF Kinefinity KineRAW MINI - Active EF

Lens Mount

1 pcs 489.00 489.00

Total                                                                       6,923.00

Shipping                                                                     19.99

Net amount 6,942.99

VAT 19%                                                                1,319.17

 

Final amount EUR                                                  8,262.16

 

You need the hard drives and stuck with kinefinity ones. Basicly its the old arri trick of selling all the little bits and pieces to make you a millionaire.

 

The Kinefinity was something I would very much consider but they just don't compete and will go the way of the Ikonoskop

 

Yes its nice to have a larger sensor than the pocket or the BMCC But they have an answer in the 4k Every way you look at it the Kinefinity canoot compete. Shame really.

 

I think the problem was they left it to long The bolex has done the same thing.



#20
riccardocovino

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:34 PM

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@andrew:

I was talking about final price, BMCC is unbeatable.

 

As for the other features, it depends on everyone's personal need.

 

Personally I wouldn't care of Cineform output and of 4K (for at least two years), while rolling shutter is important, you're right about that.

 

Anyway, BMCC lets you be in the Raw professional era for less than 3k (and BMPCC for 1.5k), while KRmini lets you enter for more than 5k euro, giving you more, so prices are quite balanced.

 

Above all, it will be a serious competitor in the brand new market of Raw cameras below 5K, and the extra features are worth the money.






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