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How to avenge the price of the Canon 1D C and make the camera pay for itself

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#21
tomekk

Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

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1. buy 1DC

2. Read this article

3. ????

4. profit

I guess the problem for majority is with 3 Andrew ;).  LOL


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#22
ScreensPro

Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

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Let's take it, point by point.

 

Stock - 4K stock has been shot for years by RED users. It is a niche market and there are no major signs that 4K will make inroads into the home. Sony and Co tried to push 3D and failed, 4K could go the same way.

 

Leasing - This is a decision people should look long and hard at, regardless of the camera. If you have a solid plan to cover your repayments, then it is a decent option.

 

Sell your other camera gear - Not everyone is sat on a 5DIII, if you have been shooting on a GH2, it could be better to keep it as a B cam.

 

Wait - Probably the best bit of advice... If you don't need 4K, forget about the 1-DC

 

Charge more - Easier said than done. If your client doesn't want or need 4K, you can't charge more because you have a 4K camera. In today's financial climate, 4K is a hard sell, especially for things like music videos and commercials.



#23
Bruno

Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

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A Red One MX at $4k would have been a much wiser choice than a Canon 1D C if you really need 4k, the only down side could be the size, but the quality you'd get out of it would make up for it. 



#24
Saturn

Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

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It reminds me of two movies which were shot on 70-mm film "just because we can and it will be beautiful" -

 

http://www.imdb.com/...103767/business

http://www.imdb.com/...770802/business

 

it looks like those two attempts - lost some money.

 

I suspect that an idea of getting 1DC to sell 4K footage is right in the same track - "lose money".



#25
TJB

Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

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I think buying serious cameras these days is a mugs game. They're outdated very quickly and really the client should pick up the tab on equipment costs.

If you're shooting your own project - rent. The rental cost will reduce your taxable earnings. This is usually more cost effective than depreciation on purchased assets. 



#26
Andrew Reid

Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

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Renting is ridiculous for some. A total abject waste of money.

 

If you are happy with DSLR image quality or the Blackmagic, why rent them? They are SO cheap to buy.



#27
TJB

Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

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The topic is how to avenge the price of a 1DC not something 4 times less expensive like a BMCC or 5DMK3. That's why my comment refers to "serious" cameras- ie: something that's over 10K.

#28
Shawn_Lights

Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

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Serious cameras are dictated by cost now, not image and capabilities?



#29
Andrew Reid

Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

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I think we're on the same page TJB. I didn't think you were referring just to expensive cameras, you said "if you're shooting your own project than rent". Shooting it with what? GH3 or C500?... It really depends. One is a good ownership prospect, one isn't. One has the need for a C500, one shooter doesn't. I agree it is a risk to buy very expensive cameras, $12k plus. The depreciation on it is hell. Renting a 1D C - yes that would be fine for some.

 

Just putting it out there that renting a camera that costs less than $3k is not sensible.

 

I am not in love with the idea of renting because I use my cameras almost every day and have quite a few of them. Renting all that would be ridiculously expensive long term.



#30
Shawn_Lights

Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:13 AM

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I think we're on the same page TJB. I didn't think you were referring just to expensive cameras, you said "if you're shooting your own project than rent". Shooting it with what? GH3 or C500?... It really depends. One is a good ownership prospect, one isn't. One has the need for a C500, one shooter doesn't. I agree it is a risk to buy very expensive cameras, $12k plus. The depreciation on it is hell. Renting a 1D C - yes that would be fine for some.

 

Just putting it out there that renting a camera that costs less than $3k is not sensible.

 

I am not in love with the idea of renting because I use my cameras almost every day and have quite a few of them. Renting all that would be ridiculously expensive long term.

 

Not to mention if you rent something and then you encounter a scheduling issue with an actor/actress etc. It can really add up. I rarely encounter scheduling issues but when I do I be glad I didn't rent anything. This is referring to personal projects.

Renting for clients is easy if you can work it into your price. Renting isn't always the best option. Just have to know when its best to do it.

I'm really not comfortable with labeling cameras that cost a certain amount as a "serious" camera and cheaper ones as not. Slippery slope there. In some situations I'll argue the BMCC is more of a serious camera than a F3 or C300.



#31
ScreensPro

Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

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One aspect of the 4K stock idea is that the 1D-C will really shine is it's abilty to get in stealthy places or when you don't want idiots waving at the camera.



#32
Andrew Reid

Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

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Good point ScreensPro. Most of the requests to license EOSHD footage has been for the stuff I shot in Taiwan and in buddhist temples, the stealth factor was essential to those shoots and makes the footage all the more rare for that.

 

The price of the 1D C is such a shame, it compels us to take a large financial risk or loss. I will likely wait until it turns up on eBay in a year for $6k.



#33
PTRush

Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

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Just so you all know, I just spent all day with a Canon rep yesterday who let us test a C100, C300, and the 1Dc (we also shot some 5D3, and mushy FS100 footage). He assured me that with the 5D firmware update this spring, we will have uncompressed video that is the EXACT same as the 1Dc in it's "super 35" cropped sensor mode. This was HUGE news to me. Also, from what I saw- The 1Dc even at 4K didn't hold up as well as the C100 with Sound Devices external recorder under controlled light. I'm definitely not poo pooing the 1Dc, but for my needs the C100 is the camera for me at that price.


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#34
ScreensPro

Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:10 PM

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 He assured me that with the 5D firmware update this spring, we will have uncompressed video that is the EXACT same as the 1Dc in it's "super 35" cropped sensor mode.

 

Very interesting, if true.

 

GH2 resolution, or more, but with Canon's colour and extra DR.



#35
richg101

Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

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that 5d3 fw update for s35 crop mode is indeed a huge bit of news.  if true, I'd buy one!



#36
Andrew Reid

Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

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Just so you all know, I just spent all day with a Canon rep yesterday who let us test a C100, C300, and the 1Dc (we also shot some 5D3, and mushy FS100 footage). He assured me that with the 5D firmware update this spring, we will have uncompressed video that is the EXACT same as the 1Dc in it's "super 35" cropped sensor mode. This was HUGE news to me. Also, from what I saw- The 1Dc even at 4K didn't hold up as well as the C100 with Sound Devices external recorder under controlled light. I'm definitely not poo pooing the 1Dc, but for my needs the C100 is the camera for me at that price.

 

I don't believe it sorry. The 5D Mark III HDMI will be a Super 35mm crop of the sensor? Or full frame and the same sharpness? Neither seem very likely! I've been told such bullshit by Canon reps in 2012 I am very wary of going off what they say from now on.



#37
HurtinMinorKey

Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

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Just so you all know, I just spent all day with a Canon rep yesterday who let us test a C100, C300, and the 1Dc (we also shot some 5D3, and mushy FS100 footage). He assured me that with the 5D firmware update this spring, we will have uncompressed video that is the EXACT same as the 1Dc in it's "super 35" cropped sensor mode.


They can't be exactly the same because 1D-C IS compressed.

It'd be funny(and certainly in the relm of posibility) if Canon started charging $ for upgraded firmware.

Turn your 5D3 into a 5D-C!.....for a "nominal" fee . (insert evil laughter)

#38
Bruno

Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

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It'd be funny(and certainly in the relm of posibility) if Canon started charging $ for upgraded firmware.

 

I actually think that would make a lot of sense.

 

Many software packages do that, you pay to unlock specific features.

Not every 5D user needs video, not every 5D user needs advanced stills capabilities, this way they could keep prices down and you could build up modularly, firmware wise. This would also be way more ecological than upgrading the hardware all the time just for a couple small features.

 

The BMCC for instance doesn't support Cineform, most likely because they'd have to pay a licence if they did, I think it would make all the sense for them to sell it separately to whoever wants to pay for it.



#39
tomekk

Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

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I actually think that would make a lot of sense.

 

Many software packages do that, you pay to unlock specific features.

Not every 5D user needs video, not every 5D user needs advanced stills capabilities, this way they could keep prices down and you could build up modularly, firmware wise. This would also be way more ecological than upgrading the hardware all the time just for a couple small features.

 

Crackers would be all over it.



#40
PTRush

Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:30 AM

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I don't believe it sorry. The 5D Mark III HDMI will be a Super 35mm crop of the sensor? Or full frame and the same sharpness? Neither seem very likely! I've been told such bullshit by Canon reps in 2012 I am very wary of going off what they say from now on.

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you. Even though this is the guy who had the FIRSt 1Dc prototype earlier last year so Canon does hold him high on their totem pole. He seemed to know what he was talking about.

On another note, don't these two cameras have different sensors. Ah well.  If true, you'll see a lot of 5D3's with external recorders soon =] Hope it is!!






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