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forget slr magic here is a vintage gem on ebay usa.


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#1 tony wilson

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:21 AM

if you are looking for one of the best anamorphics ever this is it a tiny gem.
yes it may seems expensive but it will beat any new lens at it's price point and it seems to have had a service.
put in an offer who knows.
i have nothing to do with the seller just sayin that in quality terms i think these should be goin for over 2000 dollars.\</p>
in some ways better than many of the hollywood movie anamorphics.
it is a dual focus system lens.

<p><a href="http://www.ebay.co.u...=item337e9e8156">http://www.ebay.co.u...=item337e9e8156</a></p>
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#2 nahua

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

I just have a question about using it on a GH2.  If rear thread is 24mm, what lenses can be used with it?  And I assume you have to use EX Tele mode because of vignette.  I know the look is awesome, but the range of lenses, as well as field of view, seem somewhat limited.  Just asking for some advice, I was tempted to buy it but I need to consider the practical issues shooting with it.  Thanks!



#3 roccoforte

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

The widest I've managed to get with the Moller 40mm on a Canon T2i APS-C. 35mm vignettes too much; 50 also works well.



#4 tony wilson

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

just tried it with an old angenieux zoom seems like  you should get full coverage on gh2 with at least 35mm taking lens.



#5 EOSHD

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

How does it compare to the Kowa 8Z Tony?

 

These Bolex Mollers are rare, don't see that many.

 

Kowa is very sharp, better than my Iscorama 36.



#6 Rudolf

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

I saw the vlog from eyapatch entertainment and he says he can go up to 28mm. As far as I understood he also loves this lens...

There were at least four Boles Möllers on ebay recently. Just about two weeks ago I was in contact with a seller

of the Möller 16... and he said I could buy it right away for $750,- ! Unfortunately I got his email during the night

and when I got up it was gone...  :(

However I don't know if the Möller 8... would suit my needs? It is as small as my Berthiot what is great but not

as easy to handle. Meanwhile I am quite happy with the Berthiot: With the right lens works quite well (for me the

Zuiko 38mm 1,8 works great). I also have a couple of diopters from 0.5 - 2 (am I getting off topic)?

Anyway... just spend more than €1.000,- for collection. Or is the Möller really worth it?

Maybe I could part with the Berthiot? But on the other hand... double focussing...



#7 tony wilson

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:08 AM

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="EOSHD" data-cid="23956" data-time="1356185388">
How does it compare to the Kowa 8Z Tony?</p>

These Bolex Mollers are rare, don't see that many.

Kowa is very sharp, better than my Iscorama 36.
it is the best optic after the iscorama.
in fact it has a nicer analogue feel than some iscorama.</p>
it is 1950s technology clearly made by men from the future kind of like the bolex kern macro switar 26mm f1.1.
i really mean that..
hollywood lens at the time the home movie moller lens where made where 100 times more expensive and needed 10 times more light.

i have had many hollywood movie anamorphics over the years 50,60s and 70s and it is better than many of them.
not all but many.
if you get a good un it is bonkers how good they are insane a total jewel.
better than the kowa for me less distortion nice flat field as sharp as is needed for any low resolution 2 or 4k movie camera : )
would be a revelation on a black magic camera.
perfect for 7d size sensor down.

my only slight concern is age so may have coating issues stiff focus.
so asking questions and returning lens for serious problems servicing is easier than an iscorama fiddly but easier.
well worth servicing.
because of compact size dual focus does not seem to be as big a pain as kowa sankor style.
i believe more are kicking around germany,holland and austria and switzerland gathering dust sitting in bolex camera box's.

#8 Rudolf

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

Thank you very much, Tony for sharing so much of your knowledge! 

I am not a professional like most (?) of the others in this forum here and I am therefor very grateful.

This tiny Bolex Möller seems to be even more astonishing then the tiny Berthiot and 

probably a very good addition to a Iscorama for being so handy.

 

Once you had a special clamp for the Bolex Möller 8/19. For anybody interested in this lens it would

be fantastic to have such an elegant mounting solution!



#9 EeeCeeGee

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Thank you very much, Tony for sharing so much of your knowledge! 

I am not a professional like most (?) of the others in this forum here and I am therefor very grateful.

This tiny Bolex Möller seems to be even more astonishing then the tiny Berthiot and 

probably a very good addition to a Iscorama for being so handy.

 

Once you had a special clamp for the Bolex Möller 8/19. For anybody interested in this lens it would

be fantastic to have such an elegant mounting solution!

Yeah there were three of them last week on ebay... they sell fast.



#10 tony wilson

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

i love the berthiot baby hypergonar as it is a piece of history. the german moller destroys it though. the 2 1.5x bolex moller versions exist one big one 16mm one small 8mm both are gems the baby one being my favorite for size reasons mainly. chretien of france mr anamorphic was under terrible restrictions from hollywood all his post hollywood contract work had to be referred to 20th century fox as he had sold them the cinemascope design concept. his original protoype was tiny it was good enough to be used on many early movies. he was only allowed to make home movie optics for 8mm amateur cameras. anything pro became the property of fox. moller and isco could do whatever they wanted no restrictions in fact they produced amateur lens that where nearly as high resolution as the pros where using sometimes much better. the big film industry boys went super big with the optics creating more wave error and other optical nasties. the baby optics where near perfect gems and error free because of tiny size. if you look at chretiens original hypergonar movie camera lens design in the fotos below, you will see it is super small i bet you that optic in chretiens hand today would destroy any later 20th century fox design in terms of resolution and sharpness. and the original tiny hypergonar would of been sharp at f2.8 unlike the bausch and lomb beasts of fox that needed at least 5.6 for starters. if the later amateur benoist baby hypergonar had had a focus helicoid movable optic design it probably would of got closer to the moller 1.5x. but a movable astigmatic focus optic anamorphic would have been classified as pro level by fox. more mollers exist they are just sitting in old musty bolex camera boxes. i have clamps for all the mollers 1.5 and 2x. the irony of it all is the fact that some of the amateur anamorphic optics where for many years superior to the multi million dollar pro optics of hollywood and it was only various great designers working at panavision that changed it around. even then put an iscorama or a moller up against a hollywood lens that may have been used on great big movies and the 2 amateur optics will give a sharper picture at f2.8.



#11 Rudolf

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

Once again thank you very much for your very interesting input and background information! 

 

I got the feeling that your rating does effect prices very quick: The item mentioned in this thread sold

rather quick and two days ago there was another one for about $2,200 (with box and some additional goodies).

I think was sold as well.

It is sometimes totally over the top in my eyes: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a7c961226

Or this one with beautiful separation: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a7b0e9d9a



#12 itimjim

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

I was fortunate enough to catch a Moller 16/32/1.5x around 18 months ago for about £500 before it become more known about the quality of both the 8 and 16. I also have the 8Z 2x, a good copy too, and it's no competition between the two. The Moller is simply perfection at all focal lengths and apertures, where others start to fall to bits.

 

Only complaint, is that it's a pig to mount due to the stubby design and narrow rear element and thread. I've tried several ways of doing it, using an elaborate series of step up/downs reversed and all sorts. It's usable, but definitely not perfect. Alas, I'm still looking for the perfect solution that allows me to get the rear element close, and clamped.



#13 tony wilson

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:59 AM

. Alas, I'm still looking for the perfect solution that allows me to get the rear element close, and clamped.

my prototype solution has been a nightmare to make but now works well. retention ring adapter the screws lock orientation super safe. depending on the country i am trading these rather than paypal selling. ping me i have a few left for the moller 8 and the 16 : ) antiochus66@yahoo.co.uk

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#14 nahua

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:41 AM

Once again thank you very much for your very interesting input and background information! 

 

I got the feeling that your rating does effect prices very quick: The item mentioned in this thread sold

rather quick and two days ago there was another one for about $2,200 (with box and some additional goodies).

I think was sold as well.

It is sometimes totally over the top in my eyes: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a7c961226

Or this one with beautiful separation: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a7b0e9d9a

 

I tell you these ebay prices are just ridiculous!  There's even an Isco with haze/fungus selling for $3500!  Cmon people, these lenses shouldn't cost this much.  I'm glad I got my Sankor, thing is sharp and smooth focus.  Sure dual focus is a huge pain, but the images are well worth it.  I'm just amazed at these prices...



#15 septemberdawn

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:14 AM

 Alas, I'm still looking for the perfect solution that allows me to get the rear element close, and clamped.

Thumbs up on the Redstan clamp.

 

The retaining ring threads onto the Bolex. The thumb screws on the outer ring lock the retaining ring in place and also facilitate precise orientation of the anamorphic.

 

I've posted these images before........but seems relevant to post them again...

 

50b07103a5063_BMA_1.jpg

 

50b072d38c104_BMA_2.jpg

 

50b072ecdc476_BMA_3.jpg


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#16 tony wilson

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nahua" data-cid="24114" data-time="1356673293">
<p>I tell you these ebay prices are just ridiculous! There's even an Isco with haze/fungus selling for $3500! Cmon people, these lenses shouldn't cost this much. I'm glad I got my Sankor, thing is sharp and smooth focus. Sure dual focus is a huge pain, but the images are well worth it. I'm just amazed at these prices...

 

 

 

 

that moller lens design is 1950s perfection.
the tiny moller size to taking lens focal range factor is excellent given the tiny size.
it is sharp yet gives a more analogue feel than the iscorama.
easier to use than a sankor type system
better than 70% of lomos
shoot a lomo at f2.8 and all will be revealed.
shoot a moller at f1.8 it will work and give you images beyond most hollywood anamorphics : )
1.5x compression
fucking quite rare.
part of a lovely leather clad bolex 8 camera kit.<br />
a state of the art home movie system full of incredible optical mechanical engineering.

we live in times where cheap is good enough.
since i have mentioned this already one person said he found one in a private sale locally.
ebay buy it now is for people that have the money or cannot wait or need stuff quick for whatever reason.
i have seen sankors go for 400 pounds buy it now when if you look they can be found cheaper.

try to make an anamorphic lens.
optex did so did century
800 dollars for a new generation turd.
2 1950s anamorphic amateur top of the tree benchmarks exist.
the iscorama and the moller 1.5x.
in this case the amateur stuff was better than the pro level hollywood stuff.
some are still around hidden in fungified camera boxes.
i like optics especially magic ones that i cannot figure out.
look at the history of pro 1950s anamorphic technology.
moller and isco should not of been making lens this good.
so optically brilliant from the getgo discreet and undiscovered by pro film makers for decades.



#17 nahua

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

Tony I know but it's hard to find deals since all anamorphics are going for ridiculous prices.  I can't find anything locally, wish I could.  I've been lucky with the Sankor and Eiki that I have, got both of them at really low prices.  But now everyone is after Moller and Bolex.  Even ISCOs were going for less than $2K last year, now almost $4K?  I think people have more money than common sense...



#18 richg101

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:53 PM

Tony I know but it's hard to find deals since all anamorphics are going for ridiculous prices. I can't find anything locally, wish I could. I've been lucky with the Sankor and Eiki that I have, got both of them at really low prices. But now everyone is after Moller and Bolex. Even ISCOs were going for less than $2K last year, now almost $4K? I think people have more money than common sense...


It's not true. the iscos are really worth $4k IMO. because it allows self shooters the opportunity to shoot anamorphic in near the same quality as what the current pros use. They say invest in glass rather than a regular camera upgrade. Hire a pro camera when you need it, make do with a dslr when it's not for a specific job that needs more. I see fools walking around family attractions taking mindless snaps of their family with grey canon glass and know they paid more for it than I paid for my iscorama. And i know their photos never benefit from the added expense their grey glass cost.

I couldnt afford to pay $4k for an iscorama. I bought a faulty one with separation and have had it fixed. I got it cheap. but the lens i own is worth 4k - even if i only paid a quarter of that! + a bit on repair costs.

I do feel the price some people are paying for the moller 8mm anamorphics is a little silly. No more than 2yrs ago they were going for £400-500. I like the look people are getting from them, but from the uploaded footage I have seen I cant see them being much use on a production which has the aspirations of being screened on something bigger than a pc monitor. I'm yet to see any footage from one that truly blows me away. the image looks lovely, but sharpness is important, and shows big time when projected. I have had one of my pieces screened publicly and was amazed how an 8ft screen watched from 8 ft away shows up lack of sharpness (even when the projector wasnt very high definition).

re. local availability. I bet it is hard to track down stuff like this in hawaii! Being in the uk I think we have the upper hand when it comes to finding treasures yet to be put up on ebay. just 2mins walk from my house there is a little camera shop which regularly has sankors and eikis for £100 displayed in the windows. seem to be ten a penny here in Bristol!

#19 tony wilson

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

i sold a moller gem to some lucky bastard a year before the gh1 came out on ebay it sold with 6 bids.
i think it went for 120 sterling ish.
i was not shooting super 8 film and had a mounting issue and as i had the bigger kowa dumped the moller.
feel sick now..
does that mean it was worth that was it a bad day or just not a great interest.
clearly i would not pay 2000 dollars for a moller today and i do not need to.
but as someone that has had more iscorama than nearly anyone and my background was working with movie anamorphics technovision,panavision and jdc and many other brands.

a moller in good nick with a decent taking lens will out resolve many state of the art camera sensors in movie mode.
clearly double focus is the issue here as is range of usable optics on large sensor cameras.
we have not really seen what it is capable of also the size makes it seem less impressive than it optically is.

hollywood likes big stuff stuff that looks the part that was panavisions secret.
the secret of the moller is the error free flat field recipe.
polishing a piece of glass the size of a dinner plate or 6 optics creates an optical wasteland that can only be corrected by stopping down.

when you have some of these tiny optics you can understand how a tighter tolerance can be achieved.
andrew needs to start turning berlin upside down looking for one of these.
they exist away from fleabay

the other issue is the scumbag ebay dealers.
i am talking about the mega seller guys that every day have over 50 listings.
they make up a figure and allow you to offer a little less.
these people are scum and very rarely test anything they have.
they clearly sometimes have rare stuff but they also shift stock around some kind of interconnection exists between these dealers in different countries.
you need to be careful.



#20 Rudolf

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

Somehow I agree with Tony but what I don't understand is the mismatch with price and quality. I paid $3,000 for a new Iscorama but it 

is silly to spend much for one with fungus, haze or whatever. The same story with the LA 7200: I bought a mint example for nearly $800,- which was too much for the poor picture-plastic-quality. Later I sold it for more then 1150,- on ebay. The same with all other anamorphics I bought them for reasonable prices and sold them for too much. You won't beleive me but sometimes I felt that is not right Just a little bit...

On the other hand I am a little bit more patient and therefore often more lucky: I recently bought a mint Zeiss 50mm 1.4 HFT for €200,-

and for the Möller (with leather case) I paid €650,- I just hope it is as good as shown on the pictures. Three days ago somebody sold 

a lovely Zuiko 38mm F 1,8 for €113,- that is such a grreat lens (I already have one)

BTW I have to mention that Mr. Wilson's clamps which are a piece of art in my mind convinced me to buy the little Möller.

I am so tired of ugly DIY solutions. I love it smart and elegant with great functionality. 

When I received the clamp for my first anamorphic (wonderful Sankor) everyhting changed: Before I used VidAtlantic and allignement was

difficult and ugly. With the Redstan Clamp the fun began. For me the wrong place to be stingy with - the same like quality anamorphics.

But don't pay $1200,- for LA 7200 or $5,000 for B- Isco 54






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