Atomos has developed an 8K sensor - big deal or not?

[gt3rs]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Never meant to single out the FX30. Really all I'm saying is I'd like mirrorless manufacturers in general to focus bit more on RS. We've got 10-bit log, we've got RAW, ProRes, 4K120/6K/8K etc. But read-out times are still average to poor on most of these prosumer cameras. I understand stacked sensor tech is still fairly new and expensive, I just can't wait to see it in every hybrid. XH2S is the only affordable large sensor camera that seems to sport one at the moment.

A1, Z9, have stacked sensors, but none provides better RS in FF than traditional CMOS. 

R3 has stacked sensor and is definitely better 9,9ms in 6K and 6,6ms in S35 but is half the pixels than A1 Z9 R5 and so on...

[Django]

45 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

A1, Z9, have stacked sensors, but none provides better RS in FF than traditional CMOS. 

R3 has stacked sensor and is definitely better 9,9ms in 6K and 6,6ms in S35 but is half the pixels than A1 Z9 R5 and so on...

For stills Nikon claims the Z9 "achieves the world’s most minimal rolling-shutter distortion". Pretty essential considering they removed the mechanical shutter. Same for A1 so yes stacked sensor absolutely provides better RS. In video though Z9 does drop to 14,5ms but yeah it can't have its high pixel amount and have it both ways. R3 sees the benefits much better spread across both modes indeed.

You just can't deny stacked sensor helps RS. Fast read-out speed is its whole purpose.

[kye]

23 hours ago, Django said:

Never meant to single out the FX30. Really all I'm saying is I'd like mirrorless manufacturers in general to focus bit more on RS. We've got 10-bit log, we've got RAW, ProRes, 4K120/6K/8K etc. But read-out times are still average to poor on most of these prosumer cameras. I understand stacked sensor tech is still fairly new and expensive, I just can't wait to see it in every hybrid. XH2S is the only affordable large sensor camera that seems to sport one at the moment.

What is the bottle-neck on most cameras?  is it the sensor, or some chip that is receiving the data down the line?  

If it's the latter then it could be something that could get a bump by buying a faster processor for whatever function that is, but if it's the former then it's really about the sensor and I suspect there's probably no free lunch in that regard.  If you want a faster read-out then you tend to only get one with lower resolutions or lower bit-depths.  

In that sense, manufacturers have been upgrading the data rates but instead of giving us the same resolution as the last generation and better RS, they're giving us more pixels and same/worse RS.  Just another reason why this resolution fetish is screwing the majority of us for the sake of a few people who actually benefit.

[Django]

1 hour ago, kye said:

What is the bottle-neck on most cameras?  is it the sensor, or some chip that is receiving the data down the line?  

If it's the latter then it could be something that could get a bump by buying a faster processor for whatever function that is, but if it's the former then it's really about the sensor and I suspect there's probably no free lunch in that regard.  If you want a faster read-out then you tend to only get one with lower resolutions or lower bit-depths.  

In that sense, manufacturers have been upgrading the data rates but instead of giving us the same resolution as the last generation and better RS, they're giving us more pixels and same/worse RS.  Just another reason why this resolution fetish is screwing the majority of us for the sake of a few people who actually benefit.

Well yeah you'd assume sensor & processing go hand in hand, but if you look at XH2/XH2S, here are two cameras with identical processing but different sensors, one stacked the other not. XH2S's stacked sensor allows fast read out that enables super low RS but also 14-bit processing. It does give up 8K in favour of 6.2K and is a bit more noisy. Stacked sensors are also more expensive to produce so that does add a bit to the cost. 

To me that's an acceptable trade-off. But I think that most manufacturers feel that a cheaper camera with 8K/45MP will be much more of a sell factor than more expensive faster read out 6.2K/26MP camera. Fuji were smart enough to give us both options but at Sony/Canon/Nikon, they seem to reserve the speedy stacked sensors for their expensive flagship sports/action cams. That probably won't change any time soon, so just wishful thinking on my part but I'd like to see a fast "XH2S" type hybrid from the other big players that isn't a high megapixel sports camera. like an FX30S, R6S, Z6S..