Tips for exposing and grading “flat” profiles

[webrunner5]

Wow not sure Fuji would be on my radar for video in this day and age?

[MrSMW]

Why not XT4 and have both IBIS and a bigger battery?

I could have traded my XT3’s for 4’s and at one point, was going to but no regrets going with S5.

Faced with the same decision today, I probably would go XT4 now there are updated Fujifilm lenses plus both Sigma and Tamron options, the latter f2.8 17-70mm being of particular interest as a relatively compact ‘28-105’.

But then I’d probably be eyeing the XH2s with envy so good job I am not looking at switching anything right now 🤪

The ONLY thing lacking for me however with the XT3 was the lack of IBIS. If it had had that, it would have been the perfect camera for me and the lack of fast IS lenses was a real issue…

IMO, best value cameras on the market today are a used XT3 if you don’t mind the lack of IBIS, otherwise S5.

[webrunner5]

Well, that is the problem, they have very few lenses suitable for good video usage.

[MrSMW]

Just now, webrunner5 said:

Well, that is the problem, they have very few lenses suitable for good video usage.

It was an issue for me, manual cine or vintage primes aside, but improving now.

[webrunner5]

Another problem is their lenses are of no use to any other brand. Pretty limiting also. They make nice stuff, but it is akin to Pentax, more a cult thing than useful..

[FHDcrew]

20 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Why not XT4 and have both IBIS and a bigger battery?

I could have traded my XT3’s for 4’s and at one point, was going to but no regrets going with S5.

Faced with the same decision today, I probably would go XT4 now there are updated Fujifilm lenses plus both Sigma and Tamron options, the latter f2.8 17-70mm being of particular interest as a relatively compact ‘28-105’.

But then I’d probably be eyeing the XH2s with envy so good job I am not looking at switching anything right now 🤪

The ONLY thing lacking for me however with the XT3 was the lack of IBIS. If it had had that, it would have been the perfect camera for me and the lack of fast IS lenses was a real issue…

IMO, best value cameras on the market today are a used XT3 if you don’t mind the lack of IBIS, otherwise S5.

Mainly price. XT3 goes for peanuts these days. I think with a bit of post stabilization and a neck strap I could be ok without IBIS. Yes the current third party sigma and viltrox 1.4 primes are very tempting, bridges the gap between apsc and full frame. I’d be tempted to go the “Easy” route and sell my Z6 to Adorama or B&H. Though since I bought it used anyway, I could probably break even if I sold on eBay. Does it usually take time before someone buys a camera you sell on eBay?

[MrSMW]

Neck strap, gimbal, OIS lenses (several third party including Canon and Tamron that can be adapted) plus some post-stab if needed.

If budget is a priority, then XT3 could be a good call.

[webrunner5]

Well eBay is like anything else, if it is priced well it will sell, if you are asking a crazy price if will never sell, but you can get a lot more on eBay than if you sell it to Adorama or B&H.

But why not a Panny S5 or a Panny GH5 over a XT3?? I have got to the point that I F ing hate FF lenses for the size and weight.

[FHDcrew]

Of course for the GH5 I’d lose good autofocus, but even more than that, GH5 I find would be too much of an IQ downgrade. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great. But I’m used to the full-frame, high dynamic range, smooth highlight rolloff, beauty that is the Nikon Z6 + Atomos Ninja V. A Panasonic S5…that is tempting. Could maybe even make the autofocus work for my needs. But an XT3 used seems a bit more realistic budget wise, especially as I would be buying two lenses. Probably the viltrox 33mm 1.4, and the 13mm 1.4, giving me a 50mm and 20mm F2 full frame look. And I feel the XT3 FLOG dynamic range would hold its own against NLOG on the Z6. GH5 just has a bad highlight rolloff and is expect it to have noticeably less DR than my Z6/NinjaV combo. 
 

Since I only really need oversampled 1080p (I shoot this way frequently using my Z6 paired with an Atomos ninja star and a special HDMI output setting, I still get 10 bit NLOG) I could just say screw it, and buy a used C100 or C100 II, either way with the DPAF upgrade. But it isn’t exactly smaller or lighter than my Z6/Ninja combo now, is it ☹️

[webrunner5]

The GH5 with the latest firmware upgrades is not really that bad at AF.

[FHDcrew]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

The GH5 with the latest firmware upgrades is not really that bad at AF.

Yes, but still not perfect. But even more importantly, I don’t want to sacrifice dynamic range. Because when I am forced to shoot in situations where I don’t have control over lighting, say outdoors in the middle of the day shooting an event recap, having that dynamic range makes all the difference. 

[webrunner5]

What you think a GH5 has 9 stops and the XT3 has 15? They are probably not a stop apart. Don't believe ANY of the bullcrap the manufactures tell you about their DR other than Arri. Red is the biggest liar of them all.

Go by this.

https://www.cined.com/lab-tests/

[webrunner5]

And like I have said 100 times on here, DR and the camera you shoot on makes no difference in hell compared to the content the viewer sees. You can have an Arri 35mm and you have a shit story or can't come up with something interesting nobody is going to look at it period. DR is the least of your problems trust me. Hell audio is more important than DR.

It is like people on here poo pawing Smartphones, how many people on here are making anything worth looking at on a better camera.

[webrunner5]

Talk about DR.

 

[FHDcrew]

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And like I have said 100 times on here, DR and the camera you shoot on makes no difference in hell compared to the content the viewer sees. You can have an Arri 35mm and you have a shit story or can't come up with something interesting nobody is going to look at it period. DR is the least of your problems trust me. Hell audio is more important than DR.

It is like people on here poo pawing Smartphones, how many people on here are making anything worth looking at on a better camera.

IDK I feel it makes a difference. Maybe the viewer doesn’t look out for it, but I think the viewer might just say “it looks better” because they see the increased quality, but don’t know all the nuances to look for in what makes a *subjectively* pleasing image. 

[webrunner5]

I disagree, I think even a lot of us can be fooled by some Smarthpnone stuff if it doesn't involve long zooms and big DoF. There are some damn good phones out now, and if you use Raw it can be even better if you are skilled at grading.  So I really doubt the average person has a clue what is good or bad filming wise. 

It still boils down to if the footage is interesting to a large audience. When I was young stuff was so terrible quality wise it was ridiculous but hell I didn't know it at the time. I watched stuff in amazement as did everyone else. It is the story that holds you, not the camera shooting it.

Sure, if are shooting weddings you need some good stuff and a lot of skill. But damn some of the best Si Fi movies were shot on crap cameras along with pretty crap actors, and horror movies hell the worse the quality the better.

[FHDcrew]

True, at the end of the day the story is what matters. But man you really get a sense of satisfaction when you make an image you are proud of. 

[webrunner5]

Oh I don't deny that, but for the average person that can be an expensive endeavor lol, not counting a rare occurrence.

[kye]

10 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

GH5 just has a bad highlight rolloff and is expect it to have noticeably less DR than my Z6/NinjaV combo.

You're thinking about this wrong - when you shoot LOG you create highlight rolloff in post using the methods I have mentioned.  For all practical purposes, all cameras are just large arrays of linear light measurement - they don't have any highlight rolloff at all.  
The "Look" of each camera is defined almost exclusively by the colour processing that happens after the image is captured (and a tiny bit by the sensor) and when you shoot log you're in control of the vast majority of that processing that occurs.

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

What you think a GH5 has 9 stops and the XT3 has 15? They are probably not a stop apart. Don't believe ANY of the bullcrap the manufactures tell you about their DR other than Arri. Red is the biggest liar of them all.

Go by this.

https://www.cined.com/lab-tests/

I couldn't find reliable DR tests for the Z6, but the GH5 doesn't compare well to the XT-3...  GH5 v1 has 10.8 stops, GH5 v2 has 11.5 and XT-3 has 13 stops.  

DR can make more of a difference than many people think when shooting in uncontrolled conditions and when it's not just art but needs to be informational as well.  In shooting the GH5 v1 I am often forced to choose between clipping the whole sky and being able to identify the person sitting in the shade.  A choice between "here's a photo of Susan and the sky is digital white" and "here's a nice photo of ....  someone? who is that?" isn't a choice that I enjoy having to make.

Of course, this choice is actually a factor of how usable the image is in latitude tests rather than just DR as a single digit.  Having a photo of Susan where she's bright purple is better than her not being recognisable, but still leaves a huge amount to be desired.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Maybe the viewer doesn’t look out for it, but I think the viewer might just say “it looks better” because they see the increased quality, but don’t know all the nuances to look for in what makes a *subjectively* pleasing image.

And that goes for anything, not just DR.

When ‘stuff’ looks (or sounds) better, folks do notice, but it tends to be in a more subliminal manner.

When something is off though, it tends to jar and be highly noticeable.

Negative stuff is harder to get right and easier to get wrong.

I’m always doing stuff with my work, photo and video to not so much improve it, but remove any obvious elements that will take away from it.

And then there is the pride factor in your own work, doing more than you need to even though 99.9% of other people will never notice.

It’s often all the little stuff that adds up to make the whole.