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Panasonic GH2 vs 5D Mark III


Andrew Reid
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[quote author=lubricated link=topic=469.msg3020#msg3020 date=1332793132]
yet again - anybody has any info on 1Dx video? samples did look very good, can there be some actual difference from mk3?

good comparison, wide angle detail is so much better on GH2.
[/quote]

Well... If you count the price itself, 1DX is more expensive than a FS100 by a good margin.

And Andrew, you could make a comparisson between a FS100 and a MKIII so people can see if there is a great plus on buying a sony cam over MKIII. Of course it has great functions like peaking but what about the same tests with those 2 cams??
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[quote author=ddueck link=topic=469.msg3017#msg3017 date=1332791258]
[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=469.msg3014#msg3014 date=1332789464]
1080/60p halves the 24p bitrate on the NEX-7 to 14mb/s, so right there you have a big step back in quality.
[/quote]

I'm struggling to make sense of this. Clarification please?
[/quote]

Bitrate as quoted in the specs is per second. The more frames per second the more thinly spread the allocated bitrate for each second so the less each frame gets. The more compressed the frame and the less bits of data allocated to the image, the worse the image gets.
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[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=469.msg3021#msg3021 date=1332794939]
[quote author=lubricated link=topic=469.msg3020#msg3020 date=1332793132]
yet again - anybody has any info on 1Dx video? samples did look very good, can there be some actual difference from mk3?

good comparison, wide angle detail is so much better on GH2.
[/quote]

Well... If you count the price itself, 1DX is more expensive than a FS100 by a good margin.

And Andrew, you could make a comparisson between a FS100 and a MKIII so people can see if there is a great plus on buying a sony cam over MKIII. Of course it has great functions like peaking but what about the same tests with those 2 cams??
[/quote]

Already touched on all the differences between the FS100 and MkIII in my previous articles the past few days, may do a summary in a separate blog post soon.
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Good blog post.  It is pretty clear what Canon's decision is.  Canon considers putting high quality video in DSLRs to have been a mistake.  But that makes it easy for us to make a decision too.  Three of my Canon cameras will be going on the market very soon.  Fortunately I have been using old Nikon manual focus lenses for video, so switching to another mount is easy.  First up as a replacement will be a GH2.
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[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=469.msg3022#msg3022 date=1332798858]
Bitrate as quoted in the specs is per second. The more frames per second the more thinly spread the allocated bitrate for each second so the less each frame gets. The more compressed the frame and the less bits of data allocated to the image, the worse the image gets.
[/quote]

OK that makes good sense. The data rate Sony advertises for NEX-7's 60p footage is 28mbps, while for 24p it is 24mbps. With this clarified, indeed it seems 24pFX will be my go-to mode unless I need slo-mo - just means I need to plan a bit more when I frame up a shot ;) Real-world experience with the camera tells me, though, that MBL plays nice with NEX-7 footage, and if I like what I see *while shooting* then I'll generally like it in post. In my experience so far this goes for both 24p and 60p out of this camera.
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Very interesting comparing of the increased frames.
But live video filming from Canon is purer and more attractive, than from gh2. Gh2 is cheaper and consequently the price quality benefits in the ratio.
But in the general competition I like video filming from Canon more.
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Maybe we have it all wrong. As others have pointed out Canon is a business.  They could well make more money by crippling their entire range of market leading SLRs for the niche digital cinema market they have just entered. Let's compare with the world's most successful corporation and perhaps all will become clear.

Canon: putting video on a stills camera is not good.  We won't sell any video cameras.
Apple: putting a computer in a phone or a tablet is not good.  We won't sell any computers.

Canon: we will make more money selling a small number of cinema cameras with a high margin, than we will selling a large number of DSLRs with a smaller margin.
Apple: we will make more money selling a small number of computers with a high margin than we will by selling a large number of consumer devices such as phones or mp3 players with a smaller margin.

Hold on a minute... This isn't working.  The more I think about the I am convinced that the people in charge of Canon do not have the slightest idea of what they are doing. 
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[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=469.msg3014#msg3014 date=1332789464]
[quote author=themartist link=topic=469.msg3008#msg3008 date=1332787688]
Seeing how the video and 1080/60p for slow motion holds up will be very informative too.
[/quote]

1080/60p halves the 24p bitrate on the NEX-7 to 14mb/s, so right there you have a big step back in quality.
[/quote]

Makes you wonder if Sony is going to pull this with their full frame dslr. I hope not.
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[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=469.msg3035#msg3035 date=1332815140]
[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=469.msg3014#msg3014 date=1332789464]
[quote author=themartist link=topic=469.msg3008#msg3008 date=1332787688]
Seeing how the video and 1080/60p for slow motion holds up will be very informative too.
[/quote]

1080/60p halves the 24p bitrate on the NEX-7 to 14mb/s, so right there you have a big step back in quality.
[/quote]

Makes you wonder if Sony is going to pull this with their full frame dslr. I hope not.
[/quote]

It'll be interesting to see what Panasonic does with the GH3.
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[quote author=TC link=topic=469.msg3034#msg3034 date=1332814882]
Maybe we have it all wrong. As others have pointed out Canon is a business.  They could well make more money by crippling their entire range of market leading SLRs for the niche digital cinema market they have just entered. Let's compare with the world's most successful corporation and perhaps all will become clear.

Canon: putting video on a stills camera is not good.  We won't sell any video cameras.
Apple: putting a computer in a phone or a tablet is not good.  We won't sell any computers.

Canon: we will make more money selling a small number of cinema cameras with a high margin, than we will selling a large number of DSLRs with a smaller margin.
Apple: we will make more money selling a small number of computers with a high margin than we will by selling a large number of consumer devices such as phones or mp3 players with a smaller margin.

Hold on a minute... This isn't working.  The more I think about the I am convinced that the people in charge of Canon do not have the slightest idea of what they are doing.
[/quote]

+1!

Surely video sub $5000 is a larger market than the very small elite of pros who use a C300?

Why fail to cater for the mass market?

Apple targeted Final Cut Pro X at the mass market, and much to the dismay of many pros (myself included!) I bet they made vast amounts of money from it at £299.

The 5D Mark III doesn't have to be dumbed down for the mass market like FCP X was, it just has to be improved. I don't think Canon's heart is really in it. They don't really like adding too much video stuff into a stills camera. I am pretty sure all their stills guys and advisors are against it and the feedback about video from those not in the know has probably been along the lines of 'we don't need it'. Very short sighted.
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[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=469.msg3037#msg3037 date=1332816073]
[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=469.msg3035#msg3035 date=1332815140]
[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=469.msg3014#msg3014 date=1332789464]
[quote author=themartist link=topic=469.msg3008#msg3008 date=1332787688]
Seeing how the video and 1080/60p for slow motion holds up will be very informative too.
[/quote]

1080/60p halves the 24p bitrate on the NEX-7 to 14mb/s, so right there you have a big step back in quality.
[/quote]

Makes you wonder if Sony is going to pull this with their full frame dslr. I hope not.
[/quote]

It'll be interesting to see what Panasonic does with the GH3.
[/quote]

Time for some fun speculation...

1080/60p, better built quality and a 920k LCD are almost certs.

New sensor of course, and since the previous ones have been faster than average to support faster contrast detect AF it may even do 120fps in 720p which would be really cool if it is as clean and well resolved as 720/60p on the GH2. A faster sensor also reduces rolling shutter.

Better EVF from Epson, possibly weather sealing since the new X lenses will have that. No point having a weather sealed lens with no weather sealed body to go with it  ;D

Better in low light, hopefully still hackable, maybe a high bitrate mode built in (they did after all kind of add one 'HBR' mode in the latest firmware). May have some form of lossless digital zoom in video mode that works like a variable crop mode. The Nokia 41MP phone has that. Ex-Tele is a great feature.

Anything else would be wild speculation... 4K? Too soon unless Panasonic have a consumer 4K TV to sell. The hardware would most likely be capable of doing it but whether it will be implemented is down to market trends come the 2nd half of this year. 3D video mode a possibility, although the 3D lens sold absolutely miserably! I'd prefer some practical stuff not gimmicks - like raw codec, peaking for manual focus, etc.

HDMI is hopefully going to be uncompressed 4:2:2 10bit, but don't hold your breath. It is still a consumer camera. I really hope they bulk the body up a bit rather than make it smaller like a GF of G series camera. This is a flagship and should look like one. The mount definitely needs to be tougher!
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im afraid that panasonic will decide to go same route as canon ... cripple gh3 with low bitrates  and bad hdmi ...
they can easily lock firmware ... af100 is not big success and we can see price going down fast.... 
so they can decide to do canon policy cripple photo cameras to protect video division... because they are only company who kill their camera sales by implementing too good video options in their photo cameras ...
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[quote author=cameraboy link=topic=469.msg3044#msg3044 date=1332840766]
im afraid that panasonic will decide to go same route as canon ... cripple gh3 with low bitrates  and bad hdmi ...
[/quote]

I have the same concern.  That is why I think the industry needs some new players to shake things up.  At the moment it is a cartel.  And they all want to set the clock back to 2007.

Red have mixed things up at the high end, there has to be room for a new player in the consumer space. 
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We've seen it all before. When the 5D came out some three years ago, the videot community criticized no 24p, no audio control. The 5D stayed top choice for VDSLR user until now. Now there still is no full 1080 resolution with the Mark III. Well, go buy the JVC, if you [i]really[/i] believe that the pixel counting madness must be continued. Conspiracy to protect the C300? I don't think so. You see with the Nikon 800D, that photo images and video images may need different approaches. I like to know how many of all the EOS buyers use the video. For this niche Canon tried their best to integrate some features, that have not yet been fully understood. The intra mode will prove to be much better than the I-frame-only-mode of the GH2 hacks. It will become more thoroughly tested and improved by updates. Earphone jack, demanded for years, now ignored. People say, why, this is no reporter cam. Wrong. It is. Few weeks ago, there was a long doc about the last days of the Homs siege, filmed exclusively with the 5D (often with candlelight, no nonsense) with on-board audio only. For example. I'd bet in half a year everybody has calmed down and sees the improvements for what they are. If someone tells you everything is getting better by the minute, not only by incremental steps, he is a quack.

The same with the GH3. Before the FW-update, Panasonics PR guy asked the readers in an interview to send a wishlist to the developer team. I was a fresh owner then, I wrote I'd like to have peaking in the viewfinder. Wow, they really answered! They said, yes, they could have the *already existing* peaking in viewfinder and display in a colour, a function that could be assigned to a fn key. They couldn't promise. They didn't. Now that I [i]knew[/i] the peaking to be already working, I could use it better. I think they tested it, saw, that the peaking and the magnifying were sufficient, and so did'nt change it. I don't expect the GH3 to be more than an incremental step further, but I certainly hope the AF 200 (or 102? I don't follow the naming rules) to be much better.
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Conspiracy?
if somebody  pay u to shoot video and then expect to do editing for free and u refuse is that conspiracy...
companies goal is to max profit...best way is to sell same tech in different niche ...
just  lock some options for consumer market... have peaking in the viewfinder is lamest thing they can do to protect af100...
more people  ask for clean hdmi,zebra or waveform and got nothing....cheap consumer camcoders have clean hdmi ...
and how about their answer that hardware for 10bit hdmi would up the price of af100 beyound 10000$...
now in 2012 we still  use 8 bit 420  as standard...
what canon learn from 5d mark II that is big market in aps c and FF video cameras and that is what they give to as in c300.... so dont expect to get same quality from 5dmark III ...
cameras are nothing more than peace of plastic and silicon  ...
tools  not religious artifacts ... all that fanboy talk is nonsense i dont care what is logo on my camera...
all big companies got tech to give as 4k raw images for less than 5000$ ...
but if they do that will crash market  ....so baby step is a answer for good profit...
independent players are only way to shake industry like red did with high end ...
they made big sony to drop price from 250000$ f35 to 50000$ f65 ...
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[quote author=cameraboy link=topic=469.msg3053#msg3053 date=1332860799]
Conspiracy?
if somebody  pay u to shoot video and then expect to do editing for free and u refuse is that conspiracy...
companies goal is to max profit...best way is to sell same tech in different niche ...
just  lock some options for consumer market... have peaking in the viewfinder is lamest thing they can do to protect af100...
more people  ask for clean hdmi,zebra or waveform ....cheap consumer camcoders have clean hdmi ...
and how about their answer that hardware for 10bit hdmi would up the price of af100 beyound 10000$...
now in 2012 we still  use 8 bit 420  as standard...
what canon learn from 5d mark II that is big market in aps c and FF video cameras and that is what they give to as in c300.... so dont expect to get same quality from 5dmark III ...
cameras are nothing more than peace of plastic and silicon  ...
tools  not religious artifacts ... all that fanboy talk is nonsense i dont care what is logo on my camera...
all big companies got tech to give as 4k raw images for less than 5000$ ...
but if they do that will crash market  ....so baby step is a answer for good profit...
[/quote]

Of course profit is the goal for any company. There's no conspiracy.

It is just I believe the crippling the video on your only interchangeable lens video cameras under $16,000 is a bit silly and will leave to less profit, not more.

Peaking, 4:2:2, proper 1080p, crop mode, articulated screen, official Canon video accessories, slow mo, zebra.... Where? I know a lot of customers will be backing the FS100 instead if they have a spare $3500+

In my opinion they should start a new EOS Movie line of DSLRs with the emphasis on video instead of stills, but with good stills like now. Then the photographers won't get jumpy.

Cinema EOS line is not for commoners!
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@cameraboy
With clean HDMI out - not only 1080, but "p", not only without infos superimposed, but 10 bit 422 - with that feature alone, would'nt you agree, that this sounded too good to be true?

422 is needed for broadcast acceptance of hd video. And it is a little better for chroma keying. One wouldn't see a difference to 420, which is why we [i]have[/i] 420.

10bit is another figure. One will see it. Or one would, that is, see it if one could monitor it properly. That our skies are banded and our faces look doughy all comes from 8bit. It is what lets consumer stuff - even the best - be instantly recognizable on a big cinema screen, projected as DCP. The spatial resolution, on the other hand, was 1k in digital cinema only ten years ago. FullHD is almost full 2k. 4k can be seen occasionally, and if you have no direct comparison or if you don't sit in the first four rows, you wouldn't notice. I know. 720p, if that is what the 5D makes, is no problem. Okay, you'd need to abstain from too much long shot detail that stays in focus, but the bigger problem is the aestethic disaster of having not enough tones. If the messenger is kicked into the well ("this is Sparta!") there is no tunnel into infinity with 8bit. There is a black dot.

The problem is: Even though the output via HDMI is uncompressed, it is still already processed. And to be 422 10bit, it needs to be processed that way. Now, how are the chances we get "clean HDMI" in a GH3 for 1000 or a Mark IV for 3000?
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