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DeesserLord

4K DSLR with no jittery / stutter video ? (Canon vs Fuji vs Sony)

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2 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Whatever looks and works best for you, and yeah, for a lot of people that is Canon.

Thats fair, but the XT3 is under $1200 used and is phenomenal in 4k.

Thats why i would love to see a sample! So much easier than describing it. It could be as simple as auto shutter speed (especially if the video you posted was indicative of your issue) or it could even be a one-in-a-million bug with your camera. But if you are happy with the M50 then the issue is moot.

i can't share a sample since all my tests involve my kids and wife. I've look at them again, the X-T30 is still very sharp at 1/50, whereas the Canon with the 18-55 lens has more "motion blur". I might have used the term jitter but i don't think it's true. I still get the feeling the way it handles motion is different than the canon. It reminds me of the A6000, but this one has some artifacts due to the weird codec it uses iirc. I doubt i would have been happy with 1/30 or 1/40, i tried it a while ago on my canon and sony A6000 and wasn't pleased with the result (yes i know) and i have other issues with the xt-30 as i've said earlier.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

That makes sense. It might have helped your cause earlier if you'd said you couldn't share because the images were private. Considering the number of spambots and such lately, I can't really blame people for being suspicious of trolls. The way I look at it, even if someone is trolling, maybe other people get here from an honest google search.

33 minutes ago, DeesserLord said:

I've look at them again, the X-T30 is still very sharp at 1/50, whereas the Canon with the 18-55 lens has more "motion blur".

If there is a difference in motion blur when using the same shutter speed, then either the Fuji or the Canon is reporting its shutter speed incorrectly.

Edit: either that, or the "motion blur" on the Canon is blurring from compression as well. More motion will strain interframe compression more, so lots of movement will make for a less detailed frame overall. The Canon might be suffering there.

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One of the reasons i dont like using 4k (on any camera) is because when the camera is still, the frame is so detailed that it could be a photograph - which makes it very jarring when the camera moves. Maybe youre having the same feeling as me @DeesserLord

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4 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

One of the reasons i dont like using 4k (on any camera) is because when the camera is still, the frame is so detailed that it could be a photograph - which makes it very jarring when the camera moves. Maybe youre having the same feeling as me @DeesserLord

You saying films nowadays looking jarring in a bad way? Most films are shot at 4k or higher resolution now. 

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10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

You saying films nowadays looking jarring in a bad way? Most films are shot at 4k or higher resolution now. 

I wonder how the X-T30 can be so sharp at 1/50 @ F3.5 with an APS-C sensor. 

Is this some kind of processing ? Are big cameras like RED or ARRI sharp like that too at 1/50 ? I guess so, since the sensor is FF and modern cinema lens super fast and sharp... How do they achieve a soft film look then ?

--

found an interesting list here https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/cameras-lens-2019-oscar-contenders-best-cinematography-1202019782/

Seems like "vintage lenses in a modern housing" is a thing. I'm not surprised. It's the same in audio, you get a more pleasing sound with more character from vintage / tube microphones than super clean ones straight into a super clean soundcard.

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14 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Edit: either that, or the "motion blur" on the Canon is blurring from compression as well. More motion will strain interframe compression more, so lots of movement will make for a less detailed frame overall. The Canon might be suffering there.

It might also be using temporal filtering (before compression) which can smear motion in some circumstances - remember we are talking about a consumer-grade T6i DSLR here.

DesslerLord - have you tried applying softening/motion blur filters during editing to the 4k footage from the modern cameras?

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7 hours ago, DeesserLord said:

I wonder how the X-T30 can be so sharp at 1/50 @ F3.5 with an APS-C sensor. 

Is this some kind of processing ? Are big cameras like RED or ARRI sharp like that too at 1/50 ? I guess so, since the sensor is FF and modern cinema lens super fast and sharp... How do they achieve a soft film look then ?

Sensors of any size can produce sharp images when paired with the right lenses. Arri and Red cameras mostly have APS-C size sensors also.

We could fill up a couple forums with sharpness discussions. A lot of narrative films make liberal use of softening/diffusion filters to soften the image before it enters the lens.

On the digital end, the more resolution, the softer and smoother your image can be. "Can" is the keyword, because as you've seen, digital images can be sharpened, which subjectively looks bad. You could, for example, add a diffusion filter to the lens, but then add a lot of sharpening to the digital image. This will be an unnatural effect, though it may appear sharp at first. I recommend turning down sharpness in the picture profile of your camera.

Big cameras like Arri and Red are very sharp, but cinematographers use that sharpness to smoothly describe organic shapes (which are created with lighting, filters, and lenses), instead of turning the sharpening up to produce jagged digital contrast the way a lot of consumer devices do out of the box.

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7 hours ago, DeesserLord said:

I wonder how the X-T30 can be so sharp at 1/50 @ F3.5 with an APS-C sensor. 

Is this some kind of processing ? Are big cameras like RED or ARRI sharp like that too at 1/50 ? I guess so, since the sensor is FF and modern cinema lens super fast and sharp... How do they achieve a soft film look then ?

--

found an interesting list here https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/cameras-lens-2019-oscar-contenders-best-cinematography-1202019782/

Seems like "vintage lenses in a modern housing" is a thing. I'm not surprised. It's the same in audio, you get a more pleasing sound with more character from vintage / tube microphones than super clean ones straight into a super clean soundcard.

If there is no movement in the frame sharpness will be the same at 1/50 or 1/1000 but I am sure you know that. 

The Alexa cameras have an OPLF filter which makes them softer. I don't think RED do. A movie like Guardians of the Galaxy shot on 8k RED doesn't look soft though. 
You can soften footage in post though or use filters over your glass like the pro mist. Alexas have a very low rolling shutter like 6ms or something and I assume the new RED cameras do as well. Probably contributes to better motion along with no in camera sharpening. 

Though personally I haven't noticed any odd motion on my Fuji cameras. Maybe because I am accustomed to shooting with Modern SLR's from the GH2, GH4, GH5, XT20 and now XT3-XT30

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