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Sigma MC-21 EF and SA To L Mount Adapters

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DOH!! Why didn't Sigma mention that the Leica cameras would get compatibility before launch via firmware, if that's the case? We could have done with knowing. Panasonic in the UK have even been in touch with Japan to ask WTF is going on.

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8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

DOH!! Why didn't Sigma mention that the Leica cameras would get compatibility before launch via firmware, if that's the case? 

And why have they still not?

The SL and the CL firmware updates came out after Sigma's announcement and the TL2 one is announced but not ready so maybe they're still waiting for that to do a U turn on their original U turn !

A lot of the noise is about how much this adpater will benefit the SL users but people forget that if you want an APS-C L mount camera then the T/TL/CL ones are currently the only game in town and lenses like the 18-35 and 50-100 ART will go down a storm for thos cameras.

I'm wondering actually whether APS-C may well become Leica's niche in the alliance as if Panasonic continue with MFT they might not be interested in an inbetween sensor size and whilst Sigma may well stick with APS-C it will be with the even more niche Foveon sensor.

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15 minutes ago, PrometheusDM said:

They seem to be making a presumption with the MC21 as it doesn't appear in the Leica notes or the compatibility list.

I don't necessarily think its the wrong presumption but I think Sigma still haven't u turned on Friday's u turn yet?

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Yup.

There are two cockwombles involved here. One is Gannon at DPReview who wrote the original news article the other is whoever wrote that rumours headline because nowhere in the PDF or Leica info does it mention the MC-21 adapter!!

I am trying to clarify things with Panasonic and will see what the real story is here.

Confusion reigns supreme!

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Could be that Sigma are being conservative as Leica didn't do the firmware updates until after their announcement and the TL2 is still TBA so they would still have to do a "selected cameras only" caveat on it til that is released.

I'll be dissapointed if they leave the T out as there is no technical reason why it and the TL shouldn't be involved but I'll probably  channel that indignation into picking up a used CL. That'll show 'em ;)

 

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Is the MC-21 shipping yet? Panasonic told me it was on a few retailers already. I better have a look.

I've spotted a used CL for £1500. I will pass on it for now, but just thought you'd like you know... It's at WEX!

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1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Is the MC-21 shipping yet? Panasonic told me it was on a few retailers already. I better have a look.

I've spotted a used CL for £1500. I will pass on it for now, but just thought you'd like you know... It's at WEX!

I thought it was a few weeks out yet.

I'm going to wait on it and get in Japan next month. The SA version is apparently going to be very cheap there and I've got a couple of SA mount lenses that would make it worthwhile.

My CL breaking point is £1200 as I missed one at that price a few weeks ago. 

I'm in Berlin at the moment and have the T with me so I'm going to have a sniff around Fotomax etc tomorrow and see if they have the Panasonic in stock as I am interested in what's going on in the app when you connect it....

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6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

They also say its compatible with the T and TL but there is nothing from Leica that would suggest that.

And they say their info is "per Sigma".

Such clarity!

20190404_074105.thumb.png.b5a2860c40d21b7b8ffcc779c725371c.png

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26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am no clearer whether I should buy it or not!

May as well continue using my manual focus stuff until they can tell us what the heck they are playing at.

I'm definitely going to hold off until I go to Japan next month as I was hoping you'd cave in first ;) 

Looking at that L mount alliance website again, it is run by Leica and to me there is an undertone not of reluctance exactly but certainly of less than unbridled enthusiasm.

I found this particularly interesting in the FAQ section

-------------

Q. Why have Leica, Panasonic and Sigma decided to form the Alliance

A. Panasonic and Leica have been in the long term partnership, and Panasonic and Sigma have been having a regular communication through Micro 4/3 system. Panasonic being a middleman, the three companies which have their own established position and strengths that help them stand out from each other got together. 

-------------

That definitely reads as there being some distance between Leica and Sigma that might explain the situation with the MC21 at the very least from the co-ordination perspective if not something deeper.

I mean, a conspiracy theorist might easily suggest that Panasonic wanted to form the alliance with Sigma and Leica were beholden to go along with it to maintain their development relationship with Panasonic.

As I am indeed one such conspiracy theorist, that is exactly what I'm suggesting ;)

Leica have a very productive symbiotic relationship with Panasonic and even when they make exactly the same product like the LX100/D Lux 109 it doesn't stop Leica selling a healthy amount of their version of it. With such a longstanding and fruitful relationship, Leica know they can co-exist quite comfortably with Panasonic without the latter eating too much if any of their lunch.

With Sigma on the other hand though, they are a massive threat.

The amount of excitement from us Leica owners at the news of Sigma being involved in this alliance will not have gone unnoticed and I would be very curious to see a graph of Leica's L lens sales since the alliance was officially announced while people waited to see what Sigma's line up would be.

 

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I think that's bang on the money... I dare say Sigma designed or even manufactured glass in Panasonic's lenses and have been doing so for years.

Whereas the higher-end optical formulas are Leica, I wonder if Sigma is a contract manufacturer even for those.

So for Panasonic to be in bed with Sigma is very cozy, but it must give Leica a lot of pause for thought to share the L-mount license with a rival lens manufacturer.

Maybe it will give Leica a bit of a reality check on their pricing. Leica L mount lenses have some real rip offs in the ranks, such as that crap kit zoom for the TL and even the 23mm F2 which is a nice lens but it's just an APS-C Panasonic / Sigma jobby basically, with a Leica badge.

Leica need to get real there and unless it is hand made in Germany, a modern full frame or APS-C L mount lens should not cost the same as an M mount lens.

I am sure internally at Leica not everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet in agreement over the alliance.

First shot across the bow... Disable Sigma's Canon adapter. Bam.

Hopefully this is not the case, but even if it is politics, I have a feeling they will dress it up sweetly as a little technological hurdle maid. Oh dear it doesn't work, sorry about that, but we have a lovely £4000 50mm to sell you instead.

Maybe that Novoflex adapter was an experiment by the Germans... How shit can we make this adapter perform with Canon glass and what impact does even this shit adapter have on our native lens sales?

Problem for Panasonic and the alliance is that a good Canon EF adapter exists on a Sony body. Sony don't seem to mind, and their native lens sales are fine. So is Leica just paranoid? Time will tell. In the meantime they have lost two sales or at least delayed two sales of Sigma's little adapter!! But not gained any Leica L-mount lens sales! What a great achievement!

Besides Sigma have a range of those coming out!

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On 4/2/2019 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Is the MC-21 shipping yet?

Found a definite release date of April 19th for Japan so I doubt it'll be anywhere earlier than that anywhere else.

Incidentally, Sigma seem very keen to get their SA users into it as that version works out at about £60!

Suggests a L mount SD Quattro can't be far off.

1277734532_ScreenShot2019-04-07at15_38_56.thumb.png.8250d5eea618b687a04978dc0b77cc64.png

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On 4/13/2019 at 10:53 AM, JohnnyG said:

I'd like to use my Nikon AIS full-frame lenses on Panasonic S1 - can anyone suggest a good manual adaptor to do this?

 

Johnny

Sorry, only just seen this.

I have an EOS to L adapter that I then put a thin F mount adapter on so its a bit of a circuitous route but works fine.

If you want to go direct then Kipon do one.

https://www.adorama.com/kaslnk.html

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