Jump to content
Ki Rin

Panasonic 12-60 vs Olympus 12-40 on GH5?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Borbarad said:

12-60 is the one I would get, well I've ordered mine with the GH5.

I have also the 12-40 which go on sale once the GH5 arrives.

The 12-40 has the constant F2.8 and the MF clutch.

However, the 12-60 will give you the more versatile zoom range ( used to have the 12-60 4/3 Zuiko), the better AF as it's optimized for DFD and has the better Dual IS2. In Short it is the better lens for run and gun, for handheld works.

 

If DOF is required then if would go for a Prime anyway.

Okay, if you don't care about onion bokeh balls, I can dig that. And if you're not convinced that dual IBIS is really not all that important (although I've shot with both Olympus and Sigma lenses, shared my results here, and the in-body stabilization works just fine), cool beans. And if you still believe the GH5's contrast AF will be good enough for your work, that's wonderful, I can go along with all that, but - what about this supposed zoom range advantage? Is it really all that useful? I would think, going by that logic, that the Olympus 12-100 would be far more useful, and it's going to be a superior lens. Because 60mm is neither here nor there as far as I can tell. For those who care about such matters, the Olympus has 80mm longer reach (FF equiv.) and weighs little more than 1-1/3 iPhones more than the Leica. If I were an event shooter, I'd feel more confident going into a venue knowing I could capture activities going on at a distance as well as up close with the Zuiko.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Okay, if you don't care about onion bokeh balls, I can dig that. And if you're not convinced that dual IBIS is really not all that important (although I've shot with both Olympus and Sigma lenses, shared my results here, and the in-body stabilization works just fine), cool beans. And if you still believe the GH5's contrast AF will be good enough for your work, that's wonderful, I can go along with all that, but - what about this supposed zoom range advantage? Is it really all that useful? I would think, going by that logic, that the Olympus 12-100 would be far more useful, and it's going to be a superior lens. Because 60mm is neither here nor there as far as I can tell. For those who care about such matters, the Olympus has 80mm longer reach (FF equiv.) and weighs little more than 1-1/3 iPhones more than the Leica.

Well, I'm not a Videoguy as my background ist Photo and my main Camera is a Leica M ( second System was always (m)4/3 ). So I've used some lenses.

Bokeh / rendering details aside the question is more what do you want from the lens? 

The for me biggest thing is AF and Zoomrange. As I said I used the 12-60 ZuikoPro before and know the Versatility of this range.  The 12-40 is a great lens but for a walk about just a tad to short. I'm not so much in need of 200mm but more of 100-140 if required. 

The other thing is AF. I used all the Pro Olympus from E1 to E1 MKI but switched to the GH4 a year ago due to Video. I was quite surprised by the GH4 ergonomics - very well executed. Better than the EM1 for me. But the AF is shocking. It can work but most of the time It's simple not good. I use the 300mm F4 and often I use MF because of the awefull AF. From what I've seen and read so far the GH5 seems on paar with the EM1 MKI or slightly better. That's definitely a relief!!!.

So, this brings me to why the 12-60: I don't bother with 2.8 to 4 because that's more than good enough for an everyday zoom. Next is AF. The GH5 will have the required DFD map for AF. Olympus lenses will not be mapped at all for now. Next is dual IS2 for best handheld shots. Then the Zoom range is versatile enough. And then the is size as well.

So, the 12-60 is for me the best everyday lens. You might go for the 12-100? Well you can. But you won't get the fastest AF, the DUAL IS and it's far far bigger when zoomed out.

 

now you might've ask why I have the 300mm and not the 100-400 if I talk about DFD Af. Well the 300mm is just so much better optically........

 

 

Just as an example for my shooting requirements for a standard zoom: from inside a driving 4x4 car on a dusty bumpy road ( do that lot when traveling).

 

 

If I want rendering than I would go for a Prime like the 12 1.4, 25 1.2 or 42.5 1.2. anyway.

 

B

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Ki Rin said:

How important is DFD? I've never had a camera with that, so I don't really know how useful it is..

It's a way of making it focus quicker. The GH4 was almost instant or slow depending on the situation. If I panned from a distant object to a close object the GH4 had the focus before I arrived. ??!! But tracking a person moving closer or have someone pop up in front of the lens, it seemed slow. The GH5 is meant to be exactly one bizillion times faster. But I think everyone is taking that with a grain of salt until the camera is released. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ki Rin said:

Ok, so the DFD will affect focus tracking as well?

 

Not right.

First of all it's Contrast vs Phase detection AF.

The EM1 MKI / II uses both.

The GH4/5 only contrast. Single AF is quick enough, but CAF can be a nightmare currently.

In order to get close to the AF phase detection speed Panasonic invented DFD with the GH4( and used afterwards). The basic idea is that the contrast AF knows exactly the Type of lens used, how it's characteristic are in regards to the focus field and the out of focus rendering/ behavior  at each focal length. This gives theoretical  Panasonic contrast based AF a big advantage  compared to other lenses or contrast AF Systems.

And the GH5 has the next generation DFD 2.0 AF

How good it is really no one knows at the Moment, but dpreview thinks that the GH5 has by far the best contrast AF of all cameras for now as they did a test. Not as good as the best Phase Detection AF like Nikon/ Canon or the EM1 MKII, but enough for the none-sport or -wildlife shooter.

 

B

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the explanation. I guess we will have to wait a bit more to see how the system performs then. I'm interested how well this system will be able to keep a subject in focus when shooting on a gimbal for example. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jonpais said:

Gotta question the integrity of a reviewer (Mirror Lessons) who says (about the Leica 12-60) that the only apertures to avoid are f/16 and f/22 due to diffraction, but this applies to all m43 cameras. I'm curious to know what you think of that statement? 

:P That's a good one, I thought they simply messed up 'cameras' with 'lenses', but then I don't understand why you'd specifically mention 'm43 lenses', as just about any lens for any system starts to suck past f/8~f/11. Though, maybe they've provided better context to find out about that, I didn't really look into their review thát much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I opted for ordering the Leica 12-60....I only own 3 Panny lenses and 20 something legacy lenses (yes I have problems when it comes to buying lenses) and opted to replace the 14-140 which I use for traveling or Sunday in the country kind of shooting...I opted for the 20 mm extra reach of the Panny Leica over the speed as I find the longer reach handy when my 5 year old is running around...for interiors the 20 mm 1.7 is so small, it's like carrying around an extra lens cap😀...anyway....my other motivation for the 12-60 was the rack focus on the GH5 which I can see as a wonderful feature for narrative or commercial work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see several here who already own the Oly 12-40mm f/2.8 or Panny 12-35mm f/2.8 who are planning to sell and get the PL 12-60mm f/2.8-4. Any reason not to keep your lens and get the excellent Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8, or, failing that, the soon TBR PanLeica 50-200mm f/2.8-4 instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jonpais said:

I see several here who already own the Oly 12-40mm f/2.8 or Panny 12-35mm f/2.8 who are planning to sell and get the PL 12-60mm f/2.8-4. Any reason not to keep your lens and get the excellent Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8, or, failing that, the soon TBR PanLeica 50-200mm f/2.8-4 instead?

Well it's actually very interesting what's  going on with m4/3 and I have to admit that being a longterm  Olympus user!

The most loved original 4/3 leneses despite faster offerings were the Olympus  12-60 2.8-4 and 50-200 2.8-4.

And for the first time I think Olympus will loose the position to Panasonic with the GH5 and the new Leica lenses.

If if you take this list:

GH5

12-60 2.8-4

50-200 2.8-4

8-18 2.8-4

12mm 1.4

42.5 1.2

what are the  realistic choices from the Olympus lineup that could be of interest?

300mm F4

25mm 1.2

.... that's really it.  Sounds harsh if you look at some faster zoom offerings but I've used 4/3 and m4/3.

however, there is one more lens I wish for that should be made again for m4/3 - the little tuna known as the 150mm F2. Still the best if take into account the 4/3 lenses as well. Outstanding sharpness, microcontrast, bokeh etc. and that at F2. No need for stepping down!!!!

 

B

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thought - just what constitutes reliable AF? Say the GH5 has a 60% keeper rate in stills mode (just pulled that number out of my ass, too lazy to check my facts as usual). Then we can safely say that AF-C in video mode will be slightly less effective, can't we? Let's say it's only 10% less. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it? If I were playing the Lotto, those would be terrific odds. So, if I'm buying one of PL's shiny new lenses with their highly touted DFD v.2, I should be able to rely on it for event shooting, shouldn't I? Now, let's just pretend we're shooting a wedding. Is a keeper rate of 50% good enough for the bride and groom? Of course, this is all imaginary, we're just playing pretend. Now it's time for me to preorder my V-log...

13 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

Well it's actually very interesting what's  going on with m4/3 and I have to admit that being a longterm  Olympus user!

The most loved original 4/3 leneses despite faster offerings were the Olympus  12-60 2.8-4 and 50-200 2.8-4.

And for the first time I think Olympus will loose the position to Panasonic with the GH5 and the new Leica lenses.

If if you take this list:

GH5

12-60 2.8-4

50-200 2.8-4

8-18 2.8-4

12mm 1.4

42.5 1.2

what are the  realistic choices from the Olympus lineup that could be of interest?

300mm F4

25mm 1.2

.... that's really it.  Sounds harsh if you look at some faster zoom offerings but I've used 4/3 and m4/3.

however, there is one more lens I wish for that should be made again for m4/3 - the little tuna known as the 150mm F2. Still the best if take into account the 4/3 lenses as well. Outstanding sharpness, microcontrast, bokeh etc. and that at F2. No need for stepping down!!!!

 

B

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you suffering from temporary amnesia, B?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, jonpais said:

 

Are you suffering from temporary amnesia, B?

WTF???

I'm one of this hybrid users, that group  that's does photo mainly but also now wants video. My lens selection is not based on video but photo. And that's were I need zooms, AF and long wildlife lenses. And as I used 4/3 since the E1 I know quite well what the system does offer....

For Street, Documentary and all the other nice stuff I have a Leica M.

And of course I don't want a Sherpa for my gear.

 

B

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

WTF???

I'm one of this hybrid users, that group  that's does photo mainly but also now wants video. My lens selection is not based on video but photo. And that's were I need zooms, AF and long wildlife lenses. And as I used 4/3 since the E1 I know quite well what the system does offer....

For Street, Documentary and all the other nice stuff I have a Leica M.

And of course I don't want a Sherpa for my gear.

 

B

 

Not talking about sheep, I'm talking about the extraordinary Olympus 75mm f/1.8, one of the best telephoto lenses in the m43 system. As for needing a sherpa, I can fit my Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, Leica 12mm f/1.4, Oly 25mm f/1.2 and Oly 75mm f/1.8 in a tiny handbag. No need for an assistant! Actually, for those who already own one a Panny or Oly wide zoom, you'd be better off getting the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 if you need the extra reach, rather than buying another zoom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Not talking about sheep, I'm talking about the extraordinary Olympus 75mm f/1.8, one of the best telephoto lenses in the m43 system. As for needing a sherpa, I can fit my Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, Leica 12mm f/1.4, Oly 25mm f/1.2 and Oly 75mm f/1.8 in a tiny handbag. No need for an assistant! Actually, for those who already own one a Panny or Oly wide zoom, you'd be better off getting the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 if you need the extra reach, rather than buying another zoom.

Correct!

But I'm not interested in primes as I have the Leica M for that anyway. What I need is AF a good standard zoom and the long end and weather resistant stuff. Now video is on the list as well.

There is a rumor ongoing that there are 1 or 2 pro long Tele lenses in the making... so I don't know  if I will stick to my current plan to get away with

12-60

50-200

300

That's very compact.

B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

Correct!

But I'm not interested in primes as I have the Leica M for that anyway. What I need is AF a good standard zoom and the long end and weather resistant stuff. Now video is on the list as well.

There is a rumor ongoing that there are 1 or 2 pro long Tele lenses in the making... so I don't know  if I will stick to my current plan to get away with

12-60

50-200

300

That's very compact.

B

'Splash resistant' is hardly reassuring, and I would never subject my Panasonic to any moisture if at all possible. It's just marketing. What's the IP rating? You've thrown everything you can at me, but I'll help you. Next you're going to say that only Panasonic lenses can perform the pull focus trick. But wait until everyone starts using it and complains about focus breathing.

No sherpa needed. Lenses: Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, Leica 12mm f/1.4, Olympus 25mm f/1.2, Olympus 75mm f/1.8

IMG_2320.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jonpais said:

'Splash resistant' is hardly reassuring, and I would never subject my Panasonic to any moisture if at all possible. It's just marketing. What's the IP rating? You've thrown everything you can at me, but I'll help you. Next you're going to say that only Panasonic lenses can perform the pull focus trick. But wait until everyone starts using it and complains about focus breathing.

No sherpa needed. Lenses: Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, Leica 12mm f/1.4, Olympus 25mm f/1.2, Olympus 75mm f/1.8

 

Well, what I know is that the IP rating is more about what they would cover under warranty and not whats capable. Was under NDA with Olympus a few years ago.

What we have done with 4/3 m4/3 stuff is s lot more, from freezing, drowning, totally covered in mud, cleaning in river water, under the shower and what else.. at least until now they survived a beating on the heavy side. And there is a lot online, just google for it.

It's probably the best system out there suitable for the great outdoors and expeditions / adventures from a durability perspective.

The Focus pull is probably good to great but not on my list of interesting features .....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the Olympus 7-14, 12-40 and 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO zooms (w/ MC-14 1.4x teleconverter), is there any more you could possibly need (except for primes faster than f/2.8)?

If you're in the EU, there's now the Olympus Test & Wow campaign going on, where you can borrow any one body / lens from a local Olympus dealership with atleast one full day of testing. Might have to plan one of those days with the E-M1 Mark II, 12-100, 40-150 and 25mm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

With the Olympus 7-14, 12-40 and 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO zooms (w/ MC-14 1.4x teleconverter), is there any more you could possibly need (except for primes faster than f/2.8)?

The Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 would be an excellent choice for anyone owning either the Oly or Panny wide zooms who needs that extra reach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...