Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This review sums up what I think of the camera very well. "I gripe because I love" is a good way to put it, I praise BMD for doing something like this and at the same time I'm befuddled by some of their design decisions and how much it feels like a beta product. http://prolost.com/blog/2012/12/19/lets-cook.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It really amazes me at how people gripe at this camera. It's form factor its lack of features It's weight. I mean you can shoot RAW. The first RAW camera that one person could operate without a crew. Let alone its price. The weight is about the same as most video cameras and yet silly BMC made it heavier than an SLR. It doesn't have F stops in the viewfinder yet..... WHO cares Professionals will use manual anyway. It's battery only lasts two hours it just goes on and on. Are people so spoiled they are incapable of using a camera nowadays. Maybe wait until the camera has legs and can go out and shoot the footage for you.. Just a few years ago I was struggling with a 16mm KRASNOGORSK to get a decent film look and then a Letus adapter and now we have a fully functioning BMC that does everything a PRO needs and the moaners doubters and real silliness creeps in and takes it down. The BMC is KING and that is a fact. nahua 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It really amazes me at how people gripe at this camera. It's form factor its lack of features It's weight. I mean you can shoot RAW. The first camera that one person could operate without a crew. Let alone its price. The weight is about the same as most video cameras and yet silly BMC made it heavier than an SLR. It doesn't have Fstops in the viewfinder yet..... WHO cares Professionoals will use manual anyway. It's battery only lasts two hours it just goes on and on. Are people so spoiled they are incapable of using a camera nowadays. Maybe wait until the camera has legs and can go out and shoot the footage for you.. Just a few years ago I was struggling with a 16mm KRASNOGORSK to get a decent film look and then a Letus adapter and now we have a fully functioning BMC that does everything a PRO needs and the moaners doubters and real silliness creeps in and takes it down. The BMC i s KING and that is a fact. Good I'm not the only one to react... I'm amazed to see all the moaning, demanding and complaining. WHY didn't they do this, do that, and no global shutter, and why didn't they just make a $3000 Alexa but with raw that doesn't generate huge files, 240 fps in raw.... NOW! I saw a nice video some weeks ago (but unfortunately can't find it again) with a guy strolling around London with an unrigged BMCC and a light tripod, a big battery in his pocket which he plugged into the camera to recharge it from time to time... no nonsense, no moaning and complaining... just getting some nice footage and enjoying shooting... It actually is possible to shoot with the BMCC! nahua and markm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Heh heh Probably Andrew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 The BMCC is a consumer camera. In a professional work environment, I can rent a camera a month, depending on the project, but the BMCC is a camera for independent shooters to own. As an independent shooter, I'd like my camera to last me a few years and have the basic features there from the beginning. With the BMCC you can smell obsolescence from a mile away, it's obviously they're just putting whatever out there based on te RAW capabilities and great picture quality, and they'll worry about the rest on the next models. This is not a business model I will endorse. Everyone pointed those flaws when they first announced it and yet they listened to no one. How much do you think this camera will be worth in a year when they announce a new model that fixes most of the issues people have with it and costs the same price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Bruno, you prove my point... talking about what you would like, that you don't want to endorse their business model etc... Then simply don't buy their camera!! They choose what to make, use their business model and I'm pretty sure they knew they had to cut a lot of corners to make the product that cheap... It is their choice. Bringing the most important factor, the video quality, down to a very affordable level is quite an achievement in itself, and should be applauded. It is quite an improvement to the similarly priced DSLRs. All the extras would have cost more for sure... nahua 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Alot of the things he gripes about can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. The other major thing was no swivel screen which isn't really a big deal if you already own an external monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickHitRecord Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I try to see things for what they are, not for what they aren't. The BMC has a lot to offer for the price. kirk and nahua 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The BMCC is a consumer camera. In a professional work environment, I can rent a camera a month, depending on the project, but the BMCC is a camera for independent shooters to own. As an independent shooter, I'd like my camera to last me a few years and have the basic features there from the beginning. With the BMCC you can smell obsolescence from a mile away, it's obviously they're just putting whatever out there based on te RAW capabilities and great picture quality, and they'll worry about the rest on the next models. This is not a business model I will endorse. Everyone pointed those flaws when they first announced it and yet they listened to no one. How much do you think this camera will be worth in a year when they announce a new model that fixes most of the issues people have with it and costs the same price? BMC is not a japanese manufacturer where they have years of experience putting in all the little comforts you like. If I were to give you a 35mm panavision camera and lenses you would have so many issues with ergonomics weight and lack of features. Yet most feature films are made with similar. This is what seperates real cameramen from amatuers. For a DP and a director its about the best picture with light. Of course you can film stuff for news for other stuff but for film making you need a good tool. As far as that goes the BMC has a better form factor than most RAW cameras including an Alexa. The BMC is so simple compared to whats gone before for the same quality. Its so frustrating listening to people bash waht the BMC have clearly done so well and right. Companies like Sony dont want the consumer to have access to this technology They could easily make something like the BMC but in an EX1 style body for about £5000 to £6000. They wont. The BMC might be one of a kind. and they certainly wont be getting Japanese style gimickry at this price for a long time. They may come out with a 35mm version. Give me the BMC anyday and with a few lenses Mattebox and batterries etc I can go out and make movies to the standard of Skyfall. Anyone though with anything other than RAW wont. If you dont want a Camera that can make film quality pay more for something that offers compression Preferably without a big sensor and an automatic overide on everything Should just say BUY a point and shoot camera and stop trying to get involved with the professionals. OR hire a DP that will do it for you. There is nothing worse than someone who doesnt understand what they are doing professing to the masses they are an expert. nahua and Ernesto Mantaras 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Give me the BMC anyday and with a few lenses Mattebox and batterries etc I can go out and make movies to the standard of Skyfall. Right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Mantaras Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Right... If he had the budget he could alright. Because this camera delivers amazing image quality for an extremely low price, making it affordable, not consumer oriented. If a consumer was to buy one of this he/she wouldn't know what to do with it. The only comparable cameras in image quality are REDs and Alexa, and maybe the new Sony's now. But if I had $4000 I couldn't buy any of them but the BMCC, yet I'd get that level of quality! The rest goes in front of the camera, and behind it of course. It's talent and work. And I don't see what the point is in measuring a camera's worth in the longevity of its original price, its reselling value. I don't want a camera to place it in a locker and then resell it in two years. I'm not a finance company, I'm a filmmaker. And I want the best camera I can get, one that can deliver the best possible image and one that will hold the test of time, just like film does. The BMCC is the closest to that I could afford right now, and shoot an independant film without having to deal with rentals or the budget it implies, and yet still get premium image quality. nahua 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I never questioned the image quality, and say what you will, but this is a $3k camera and its features should be thought for the $3k market segment, independent shooters. If you had the budget to do Skyfall you wouldn't be choosing a BMCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Mantaras Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Most people wouldn't choose the BMCC in that scenario, no. But the comparison was made in regards to the image quality being comparable to that of the Alexa, which is way more expensive. And you mentioned it's a consumer product, which it isn't. The price doesn't define its professional nature. It makes it affordable for the independent shooter and the low budget filmmaker. I think that for the price it offers quite a lot, and the essential features it provides as of now allow for shooting and exposing the right way. Film cameras often give you just that and not the features we're used to on most DSLRs and video cameras, yet they fulfill their purpose. But guess what? The firmware improves and so does the camera's performance and features. I do think it's a camera that seems to still be in a beta stage, but it pushes so much that I think no one can blame them that much. It does what no other camera in its price range does right now! And in a level that will give you material that will last for many, many years to come, even if its value should depreciate more than that of the 5D MkIII. nahua 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 The price doesn't define its professional nature. It doesn't, the professional features do, and raw alone isn't enough. Let's face it, a professional camera doesn't come with an EF mount. BMD said it themselves, this is a camera for DSLR video shooters, but not even the EF mount is properly supported at the moment. Raw is the only big selling point this camera has (for now). Don't get me wrong, it is a HUGE selling point, and there's nothing else out there like it, I totally agree, but on most other features its no better than a DSLR, and worse than many. Film cameras often give you just that and not the features we're used to on most DSLRs Yes, but that's exactly my problem with it. They should have gotten at least the basic stuff right. It comes with an inappropriate mount (one for consumers, not pros, and not the best choice for the sensor size), poor audio capabilities, ergonomics, etc. Raw is great, it's awesome, and I'd rent or even buy that camera if I needed it right now, but otherwise, I'll wait, because it's not there yet, but it could very well have been if they had listened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE I never questioned the image quality, and say what you will, but this is a $3k camera and its features should be thought for the $3k market segment, independent shooters. If you had the budget to do Skyfall you wouldn't be choosing a BMCC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You only divide the market up like that if you're a manufacturer wanting to maximise profits. BMC have broken that by giving us a chance to use RAW at the budget end. The fact BMC have not followed the tradittional rip the customer off £3000 market segment is to be applauded and from a consumers viewpoint not a weakness but a massive breakthrough. If I had the budget to do Skyfall I would use 35mm film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Mantaras Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes, but that's exactly my problem with it. They should have gotten at least the basic stuff right. It comes with an inappropriate mount (one for consumers, not pros, and not the best choice for the sensor size), poor audio capabilities, ergonomics, etc. Raw is great, it's awesome, and I'd rent or even buy that camera if I needed it right now, but otherwise, I'll wait, because it's not there yet, but it could very well have been if they had listened. I haven't ever for once considered the EF mount version. In my mind there's always the MFT mount version, which allows you to adapt any lens you want. So the mount issue is off. And if you're serious about audio, you'll be capturing it on an external device. The one from the camera is only for reference. You have to think about the camera from a filmmaking standpoint, where you have a small or any size crew, but you have one, and where the workflow is very different. So is the delivery of that product and the quality standars expected, which will be higher in the future and the BMCC is ready for it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It doesn't, the professional features do, and raw alone isn't enough. Let's face it, a professional camera doesn't come with an EF mount. BMD said it themselves, this is a camera for DSLR video shooters, but not even the EF mount is properly supported at the moment. Raw is the only big selling point this camera has (for now). Don't get me wrong, it is a HUGE selling point, and there's nothing else out there like it, I totally agree, but on most other features its no better than a DSLR, and worse than many. Yes, but that's exactly my problem with it. They should have gotten at least the basic stuff right. It comes with an inappropriate mount (one for consumers, not pros, and not the best choice for the sensor size), poor audio capabilities, ergonomics, etc. Raw is great, it's awesome, and I'd rent or even buy that camera if I needed it right now, but otherwise, I'll wait, because it's not there yet, but it could very well have been if they had listened. It has a consumer mount Not a professional one? Who cares when you can fit on what you want and make it what you want. As far as I can see it has plenty of mounting options without a REVO box IE stick on a baseplate and add a monitor and some batteries What else do you want on there? Why do you want decent sound? Arent you going to record your sound seperately? If you are gouing to make a film you really need a good sound recordist. I wouldnt even dream of using a cameras sound. BMC in order to compete with a sound recordist would have had to add on a 15' BOOM A 416 sENHEISSER MIC OR EQUIVELENT dO YOU know where the camera department ends and the sound dept begins? Maybe it should have a couple of 5K lights that detach for night time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I know you're just going to disagree with anything I say, but I don't see why having good sound in camera would discard the need for sound recordists on set. As on so many different professional cameras and productions, the sound goes from the sound guys into the camera with proper XLR connections, and you get your image AND your proper sound in the same file. They might record it separately as well, but on many situations, especially broadcast and documentary, this is extremely useful. It's also very important for independent single shooters shooting documentary, etc. not to have to carry, rely on and operate external recorders while conducting and shooting interviews. There's many uses for in camera proper audio, that's why pro cameras all have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 You're wrong. Not all Pro cameras have audio. As for recording sound to a camera through a mixer to the camera for recording.. Yes but not on a movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galenb Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I saw a nice video some weeks ago (but unfortunately can't find it again) with a guy strolling around London with an unrigged BMCC and a light tripod, a big battery in his pocket which he plugged into the camera to recharge it from time to time... no nonsense, no moaning and complaining... just getting some nice footage and enjoying shooting... It actually is possible to shoot with the BMCC! I think I know the video. Is it this one? http://vimeo.com/54141436 That's Rick Young btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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