Super8

Just now, Video Hummus said:

Why are people expecting it to when it is advertised as not?

If they don't read the spec and operating manual they have different expectations.

I don't understand.  Canon put record limits in the delivered documents and Sony doesn't mention record limits.  Yet Canon keeps getting articles about defrauding people and false advertising.  Why is this a double standard?

The R5 records video as advertised.  Not as expected but as advertised.

15 hours ago, Snowfun said:

Although I’m not sure they need an excuse for deciding not to implement a feature a lot of people are happy without and thereby keeping the cost down. 

AF has never been pushed as a cine option.   No deciding to add working AF and not being able to add working AF are not the same-thing.  

The flip side is RED did not add really good AF and waste million on R&D if people won't use it.   AF is great if it works and is reliable. 

7 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Its a huge shame that  other camera manufacturers don't follow Blackmagics example of running video via USB to a SSD drive.  This would be a better solution to the R5 than an external recorder.  You could eliminate the card and still record for longer periods on something much lighter and not battery powered than an external recorder. 

If the R5 has this function and allowed longer recording times, including even 8K RAW and 120fps 4K to it, I would buy the camera.  

As it stands, internal is too unreliable and external risky due to micro HDMI and too bulky for what I would buy the camera for.

SMALLRIG HDMI Cable Clamp  secures the Micro HDMI cable.  If you go external you most likely have a cage.  This isn't really an issue for the 4 hour record fix.

5 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

That micro HDMI port is the weak link.  The S1H at least has a proper HDMI port.  That said, the cameras you quote are external recording to get RAW, with long recordings of HQ 4K doing fine on internal.  With the R5, its the other way round, which feels a bit backwards.  

Weird to use micro HDMI -

My point was using external Atomos device.   Some don't like using an external monitor to record.  I think it's a valid option across so many cameras today.  From the Komodo, Zcam and now with the A7SIII. 

It also seems to be used because cameras can't handle the workload without over heating.   We were all told it was a RED patient issue but it seems like it's an over heating issue.  No one could figure out why Atomos was being pushed on us.  Now it makes more sense.

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

That was funny! LOL :- )

??????

14 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

I just watch the latest Armando Ferreira's video and... this is really unbelievable, really... I am debating between R6, A7Siii and Z6 and, for a hybrid still/video use, the R6 and R5 seem more and more of little interest. Basically, after a video filled with overheating problem experiences, their sum up, as I understand it, is : R5 4k HQ is great, but it overheats ==> so you are forced to use regular 4k, which is bad ==> so the R6 comes to the rescue, as its 4k is better than the regular R5 one ==> but it also overheats ==> and so on... (and all that, I believe, without a heavy photography use between video takes !)
I still have time to make a decision, but it's a shame as the R6 is a sweet spot if you don't need high mega pixels sensor but good high iso performance and good videos...

 

The R5 has been test to go 4 hours without overheating if you record with the Atomos Ninja V.    External recording is needed with the Z6, S1H and A7S3 to record RAW.

52 minutes ago, noone said:

I do not think the A7s iii NEEDS a fan.      At least not for the vast majority who will use it and especially if all you have to do is keep it out of direct sun in hot environments as much as possible.       Not much different to weather sealing.     I would not rely on Sony weather sealing in pouring rain but there are work arounds (I have used an A7/a7s in rain but not for longer periods and not in a downpour).

I am not sure I would want a fan in a camera unless it really was needed as it just adds more complexity and something else that can break as well as an increase in size.   Others will differ.

It's a hard call on the A7S3 right now.  How much it heats up in the sun or in hot outdoor usage is still not clear.  

I don't think Sony has recording or usage limits based on how the A7S3 is being used.  I do think it matters because the A7S3 would be used by wedding videographers and lots of weddings are outside.  I don't see how you work around that with the A7S3.  

I like the S1H form factor with the fan design. 

Does Panasonic have a patient on mirrorless body with internal fan?   I know this is a stupid question but we have Sony and Canon having issues with overheating and the S1H looking golden because it doesn't overheat.

Crazy things have had patients placed on them until challenged.

Canon and Nikon are in retailers with sub $800 cameras and camera bundles.  This includes wholesale clubs.  Does this help Nikon and Canon survive the turn down in sales?

22 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I promise, I never intended to continue talking about the Z6 on this Sony thread, but I was doing a little video to show a bit my experience with the z6 and about autofocus, so I remember about a last year shoot during some games I did for a TV channel  and then the second one was for a project I already posted about for a community farm I did for a friend.

So in the first video its just a small piece where I am not even holding the camera and I just gave it to another friend and setting up another camera and they were just playing. It was with the older Nikon F 1.8 afs and at 1.8 to 2 and I was quite surpised with it because it is super shallow and moving fast. I left where he left the frame and it focus back and he moves in again but I can understand it does not focus again  as he barely features, might be too close to focusing distance or could have changed the setting not too move too fast. The second one is like athletes running flat out at the camera and on the side with very busy background etc. Its not easy conditions as you can see there is people around me and in my field of view etc. Sometimes it was even raining and with dark skin (I am brown myself) people it is harder with white sky behind etc. For me those two are quite torture test and even the older running ones on the old sensor did very well for me. The olor is some lut I just slapped , one just contrasted and others are just flat out of the camera. I left all the imperfection so people can see I am not just like cherry picking shots

 

What was the later footage shot at?  The footage with the relay hand offs, not graded? 

Nice work.

4 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Downloadable ALL-I footage here:

 

Good video.  Nice footage.

9 minutes ago, gethin said:

I think we need to compare settings and bodies.  Mine is so far away from being excellent it's not funny. 

Sure we can compare settings.   A few other love the camera and have no issue with Z6's AF.  

I'm not seeing the A7S3 in this footage or stills.  Stills are paused images from moving video. 

This certainly is not hybrid footage.  Test will show how it stacks up but the eyes test doesn't fit with - "on my screen it looks this way or that way"..... your computer screen is what you view this and hybrid with.  It won't push a cameras image quality one way or the other.  I get that people see with other parts of their body and not just their eyes.

51 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

BM Ursa Mini 4K

No Global Shutter on the Blackmagic URSA Mini 4 6K

http://www.nexi.tv/filmlive/2016/03/27/no-global-shutter-blackmagic-ursa-mini-4-6k/

Cameras from the last few years. Meaning we haven't had the GS sensor wars in recent years. 

4 hours ago, Snowfun said:

I’m going to buy a Komodo.

So I can come on here and tell the amateur hybrid camera video makers all about my thick colour, GS (yes! yes! YES!) and other juicy comments designed to reinforce my self built pedestal...

Or I might remain perfectly happy with my A7Siii at -30 degrees, iso 51k at midnight filming the Aurora in Sony thin colour whilst keeping my fingers warm by sticking them into the sensor (thereby ruining the final vestiges of what was terrible IBIS anyway). 

Choices. Choices. 

Now that's a funny post.  Since it was directed at me I'll respond.  RED came down to our side now with it's $6K Komodo, so the game has changed.  

I am a happy hybrid shooter and love that gear.   I had a moment watching that Komodo footage and seeing the price.   All most of us want is reliable gears that produces a great image.

And as far as global shutter, you can spell it out ya know, global shutter is really not out in the wild at all.   Go find global shutter footage we can look at and review. 

All of this goes back to cine cameras and how heavy they get when rigged up.  IBIS was never a thought on a cine rig for various reasons.  Cine already figured our how to get the shots they needed.  Massive jibs, car jibs, Arri skeleton steady cam suits, etc, etc.  It's a big market in the cine world.  No wonder they don't want IBIS.  Now global shutter is a different thing isn't it?  It's technology roots go back to film with it's full sensor readout process. 

I'm not selling my hybrid gear because I will still use it. 

Next question is will or can the Komodo be Netflix approved.  

9 hours ago, Inazuma said:

We have already seen some AB tests of the a7s and R6. The colours aren't THAT different. I think you're all kidding yourselves when you say it has a colour problem. I am unbiased as I don't own or intend to  own either cams or anything like them.  If you're not seeing good colour from a7s videos then it is the fault of the colour grader. And  "thick colour" is the same nonsense as what photographers call "3d pop".  You're just reaching for terminology to reinforce/shill your idea. It's possible to see thick colour as you're grading a file but not just based off seeing the final product. 

I would hope someone could get Sony color close to Canon in a A-B test.  My iPhone can do that. Lol

1 hour ago, jack jin said:

Well it still costs 400 dollars less even with all of these adapters, plus all of the iq advantage I've mentioned (High iso, DR etc.) Of course if you need a cube form factor the canon and komodo makes sense. But there seems to be a ton of people on this sub who dismisses the a7s3 based on the older bodies and their clunky menus. Sony has come a long way and they should honestly take this with a open mind.

Poor image quality cannot be ignored.   Hype, hype, hype all day long but the eye test says something different. 

40 minutes ago, plucas said:

Apparently you can extend the external recording life in the 4K HQ mode (30fps) if you remove any cards from within the R5:

 

So 4 hour record limit now if you record externally to the Atomos -   Nice!

27 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I think you are missing the point that myself and kye are making.....IBIS can smooth out some of the natural shakiness that comes from hand holding footage; GS cannot, just because it is a GS does not mean it can smooth out shakiness it just means that it won't be wavy when it occurs. So my point is, would I prefer nice straight lines as the camera shakes (GS), or would I prefer to eliminate the shakiness altogether (IBIS).

To further extrapolate that comparison; if I had to pick between a camera that could eliminate a lot of shakiness at the expense of wavy lines in some situations (rolling shutter) vs. one that does nothing to eliminate shakiness but has nice straight lines when making quick camera movements; I'm going to pick eliminating the shakiness (IBIS).  Just because a GS can handle fast camera movements better than a RS doesn't mean it does anything for shakiness; to me shakiness is far more perceptible to non videographers than rolling shutter distortion.

 

And yes, I am aware that after a certain level of shakiness IBIS can no longer compensate, so for the purposes of these examples I am referring to those instances where the level of shakiness is within the operating parameters of the IBIS system. Of course a GS with IBIS would be the best of both worlds but if I had to pick I'd pick IBIS over GS.

Look at 04:26, 04:32, 04:36, 04:55, 04:56 - these are all handheld shots.  No IBIS - No screen jitters.  No trembles.  No vibration because the camera guy couldn't hold the camera still.

Where are you getting the "if I had to pick between a camera that could eliminate a lot of shakiness"????"  Sensor scan screen shakiness is one thing.  Camera operator shakiness is another.

You and Kyle are talking about camera operator shakiness.  This is not camera related at all but is how well and camera is hand held.  Joey talks about this in the video.  The Komodo is small enough and light enough to hand hold it and get clean footage.  IBIS is also good enough to hand hold.  They can produce the same results. 

I've had to stop my cine camera guy from adding the hand held look to shoulder rigged shots.  They said "oh, you want the hand held look and preceded to add camera shake to the shot. I simply said, "just hold the camera steady and let natural movement happen. Let your body weight shift and control the camera.". 

At least in the camera world 2020 is giving us more options and confusion then was expected.   I never thought I would own a RED or think about purchasing one.   I thought investing into Canon was the way to go.

Hope everyone is doing well and is safe.  Cheers and blessing to everyone on the EOS. 

48 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I probably shouldn't say anything but I will...I too would prefer IBIS over GS if I had to pick. My reasoning is simple...fewer non videographers will notice slightly wavy lines in the video footage; everyone will notice jittery footage that could have been fixed by IBIS. I shoot handheld quite often when the gimbal is just too much of a hassle to lug along on parts of the shoot and I'm more likely to need the IBIS than I am to need to film fast moving action. The nice thing about IBIS as well is you can always turn it off (in most cameras) if it is not working for you. Doesn't fix rolling shutter, but it is another option with an IBIS equipped camera.

One thing I would be curious about however....is if in post it is easer to stabilize unstable IBIS footage vs shaky GS footage.  I would think it would be easier to stabilize GS footage but that's just a guess. I've never owned a camera with a GS so I have no way to test my theory.

It does need to be noted that global shutter does not produce a "jittery image". 

I love IBIS in the Z6.  It's amazing based on how I've used it.   Both IBIS and GS work well. 

For me it's easy to spot global shutter based on the subject background relationship.  Everything moves together the right way.  Subject to background movement is just solid.  

If you take your mirror-less camera and turn IBIS off, it will tell you how good IBIS really is. 

Global shutter is perfect for cine cameras if they get the DR worked out.

The stolen data is more than a smoking gun email about the R5 overheating.   What a bunch of loser hackers that do this.  Don't worry they always get caught.

16 minutes ago, kye said:

So, are you buying a Komodo then?

You bet I will.   Mirror-less hybrid cameras don't come close enough to the image quality produced by the Komodo.  

RED has good and bad things going for it.  Image quality, color, motion are all cine quality on the Komodo.   I have a hybrid I can use when needed and they boith can share the Atomos as needed.   I also like the look of some of the Zcam cameras but they won't hold they're re-sale value after the fact.

9 minutes ago, kye said:

Replied.  Hopefully we can get a better understanding, both about GS vs IBIS and also about why people react to your posts the way they do.

So, are you buying a Komodo then?

We replied in a PM to continue this conversation but you call me out on the public board.  Why?