rawshooter

The question still is: What is the power consumption of this solution? It may be fast and affordable but drain the battery much faster than a T5.

[deleted, misread something]

4 hours ago, paulinventome said:

Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera...

Actually, it would be helpful if 10bit RAW was encoded as Log values (instead of linear values, as it is with the current firmware). Same actually with 12bit RAW, since the camera has a 14bit DAC...

The Samyang 35mm/2.8 gives a similar good package as the Panasonic 20mm/1.7, and is comparable in field-of-view and optical quality on full frame cameras.

1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

First I don't think this is true, and even If it is, then it also applies to a compressed raw in a still camera. 

 

Please just read the patents. I provided the links further above. They are very broad patents for a video camera that records compressed raw video.

The Aputure LS-Mini 20 comes close and is very affordable:

https://store.aputure.com/products/ls-mini20/

1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

And by they way. if recording to an external ssd via usb-c it is technically not recording internally right?

so any camera manufacturer can implement compressed raw over usb-c

The patent covers any form of compressed RAW video recording, whether internal or external.

This is why Atomos signed a licensing agreement with RED for its external recorders that record ProRes RAW:

https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-and-red-are-pleased-to-announce-a-royalty-based-licence-agreement

Btw., the patents are linked on RED's website and publicly readable:

https://www.red.com/legal/patent

7 minutes ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

The only thing I wish for was lossless compressed raw, and I don't think thats covered by the red patent.

I think the patent was about lossy compressed only.

 

Unfortunately, not. The patent is about any form of compressed RAW.

1 hour ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

I’m unclear on how this doesn’t encompass BlackMagic’s BMRAW.... glad that it (apparently) doesn’t? 

Because BRAW is technically not RAW, but 12bit YUV with a log  gamma curve.

Big bummer. The RED patent also poses a threat to MagicLantern as MLV is compressed RAW video.

A firmware update is out that fixes the CinemaDNG problems:

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/news/2019/11/08/2329/

15 minutes ago, Brian Williams said:

No, I'm pretty positive that's correct, especially looking at the sequential numbers of the file names, I definitely went up the line, 8-bit, 10, 12 in order. Doesn't Rawdigger, or whatever that app is called, tell you the bit depth for each file?

You are right. I used Imagemagick's function for determining the number of discrete colors in an image, and the results were:

8bit-A001_005_20191106_000004.DNG: 3707837
10bit-A001_006_20191106_000005.DNG: 4068251
12bit-A001_007_20191106_000006.DNG: 5776266

The relatively little difference in total colors is probably related to the scene not having much contrast.

1 hour ago, Brian Williams said:

OK, here you go, 8bit , 10bit, 12bit all from CINE mode and a 14bit still- sorry it wasn't on a tripod so the camera moved slightly

still-SDIM0189.DNG 30.73 MB · 0 downloads 12bit-A001_007_20191106_000006.DNG 12.05 MB · 0 downloads 10bit-A001_006_20191106_000005.DNG 10.05 MB · 0 downloads 8bit-A001_005_20191106_000004.DNG 8.06 MB · 0 downloads

Could it be that you mixed up the 8bit and the 10bit files?

After doing a bit of an extreme grading (Kodachrome LUT + pushing contrasts), I'm getting this:

12bit

10bit (really 8bit?)

8bit (really 10bit?)

12bit

10bit (really 8bit?)

8bit (really 10bit?)

22 minutes ago, Brian Williams said:

Ok here are two shots, both CINE mode, one uncropped, one APS-C cropped.

aps_crop_A001_005_20191106_000012.DNG 8.06 MB · 0 downloads non_crop_A001_006_20191106_000001.DNG 8.06 MB · 0 downloads

1:1 crops of the above DNGs, developed with RawTherapee, without noise filtering/image improvements:

 
APS-C crop vs. full frame

 
APS-C crop vs. full frame

I'd say that APS-C is noisier...

So maybe I need to revise my earlier theory, and some binning is going on in full frame 4K (although it's not as good as the bicubic scale of a 6K DNG still to 4K with software in post); if the camera would just skip pixels, noise levels should have been identical.

Thanks to @Brian Williams' two files, we can almost safely conclude that the Sigma FP skips sensor pixels when it saves the 6K sensor data into 4K CinemaDNG.

Here's a comparison between a 1:1 crop of

(a) the 6K still DNG developed with RawTherapee (with noise filtering, sharpening and other enhancements completely off) as a 16bit TIFF which was then downscaled to 4K using bicubic scaling (binning);

(b) the 4K CinemaDNG frame developed with RawTherapee without scaling.

The downscaled 6K DNG still (left) clearly shows more details and less noise than the 4K CinemaDNG (right). 

So effectively, the camera doesn't really benefit from the full frame sensor in CinemaDNG and might even produce a better video image in APS-C mode.

@Brian Williams - thank you so much for this! This clarifies a lot.

I'm still wondering how, technically, the camera downsamples the sensor's 6K Bayer pattern to the 4K Bayer pattern of the CinemaDNG frames...

Would be really grateful if people who own/used the camera could clarify whether or not it crops the sensor when shooting 4K CinemaDNG.

Normally, RAW video means 1:1 sensor readout. Since the FP has a 6K sensor, this would then mean a crop from full frame (36mm) to APS-C (24mm). However, it seems - from reading the manual - that the APS-C crop is only optional and the camera can record 4K CinemaDNG with full sensor readout. Is it then binned RAW?!?

Rookie question:

Does the Sigma fp crop the sensor when recording 4K CinemaDNG from 6K sensor, or is the CinemaDNG downsampled (like MagicLantern Raw)? 

Same question re: the 2K CinemaDNG recording...