The ghost of squig

I've filmed 5 shoots up to around 3 hours each with up to 4 wireless go's on each, maximum distance around 5-6 metres, no dropouts.

If Canon wants to get back into the game it has to up its video spec, duh... but it won't. Photographers are shooting video more and more. Pro photographers shoot raw, so it's just common sense to introduce internal raw video. Chances are Sony will beat Canon to it with the A7SIII, Sigma is already doing it with the FP. If the EOS R shot APS-C 4K lossless raw with <15ms rolling shutter it would've been huge.

11 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I didn't ETTR on the BMPCC4K to get more punch and contrast and to combat the Sony-like colors 

?

12 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I don't see it in Prores nor Braw. All is well in both the units I had.

Maybe your northern sky just isn't blue enough. ? Have you tried a polariser?

Just now, Emanuel said:

Indeed. The same difference we'll find out between ISO 1000 and 1250...

 

Not as dramatic. Best to light for 400 or 3200 for maximum latitude and lowest noise...

19 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Buddy, you know why you've always been one of my fav posters for years if not longer than a decade now, wherever you are ; ) a breeze welcome to any users community again, thanks to you too @Andrew Reid : -)

Thanks.

You get a punchier image with ETTR: more contrast and saturation, and less noise; but you'll get maximum latitude exposing in the middle @ 400 ISO, albeit with a bit more noise.

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

I always ETTR on the BMCC/BMPCC but not on the new BMPCC4K. I used the native ISOs and tried to get as close to the final exposure as I could in camera. With the new color science it's been a winning concept for me.

I still have never been able to create any type of "blue sky macro blocking", and I've owned two separate units.

Both CDNG units? Even compressed raw?

Exposing in the middle on my Braw unit, the macroblocking is clearly visible. Between 1 and 2 stops over you have to look hard for it but it's still there. It's there in ProRes too so it's not exclusively a Braw issue. BMD have been very quiet on this flaw, which is disappointing.

I shoot at either 400 or 3200 ISO and ETTR for the lowest noise. It's essential to overexpose by at least a stop and recover the highlights in post to minimise the blue sky macroblocking issue.

When is somebody going to make a decent loupe for this camera? I got the cheap Australian one from eBay, it’s not great, but better than nothing. BMD should make a loupe. One of the things I like about the Sigma FP is Sigma is making the essential accessories for it. It’s been over a year since the P4K was launched at NAB and we still can’t get a high quality loupe or a P4K specific speed booster. ?

I’m only getting around 2 hours with NP-F970 batteries. The P4K is a power hungry beast. 

Maybe they hit a snag with the HDMI lag.

8 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Oh and also add tilting screen, IBIS, VF, DPAF, full size XLR and a FF sensor. There's no other way to make good films without those things.

I can think of a couple of good films made without those things. 

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I've wanted a small, affordable, uncompressed raw video shooting full frame camera forever.

Too early to call it the baby Alexa I’ve been hanging for, but judging by the specs and the fact Sigma is already in the Cine lens business, this camera looks like the ultimate crash cam for big budget features, and even a B-cam for low light shots, assuming the color science is good and rolling shutter is minimal.

I'm super interested in this camera. It looks like finally after 7 years there may be a camera that can do what the 5DMk3 with Magic Lantern can do and more. About the only concern I have at this point is that the FP doesn't have an OLPF, the Z6 does. I hope it is a 1.5x crop, if not an option. Paired with the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 OIS lens it could be an awesome setup for doco and narrative work. With HDR it should be capable of around 14 stops like the 5D is with Magic Lantern dual ISO mode. 

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'll stick with CDNG and watch the eBay resale value sky rocket

Pray your LCD doesn't die.

3 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sorry, that was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but reading back, it just looks snarky, my bad.

While I'm rectifying my previous post, the DNG image isn't from the P4k, it's from an Ursa 4.6k (not sure if pro or not, you can read more about it here: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69405&p=387660)

No worries. Some of the examples on the BMD forum were super-saturated.

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Neither you and me. We've been a very supportive basis Blackmagic has had in the forums we participate for years! As much as Andrew, BTW. It is a shame the brand doesn't recognize the voice of their loyal backers outside their own bubble as due. Only when someone makes it louder... perhaps.

I shot some low light footage last night and I'm very happy with the results. 3200 ISO speed boosted shooting is one of the primary things I bought it for, and I chose to shoot with it last night because my testing confirmed it performs better than the 5DMk3 ML raw and the X-T3 in low light. Sunny days: not so much ?

17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I've emailed Grant Petty and a few people inside BMD to address it. For the content of Brian's post, I'd even dare to bet you're just talking with someone insider now... LOL ; -)

I'm not a hater, I noticed the issue a month ago and I didn't say anything publicly because I didn't have the time to do more tests at that time. It wasn't until after I saw the thread on the BMD forum that I posted my tests. As soon as there's a blue sky I'll do some more tests and hopefully come up with some answers, but so far I think @deezid may be right about it being a denoising issue, either that or compression, or a combination of both. Either way it's something that shouldn't be too hard to fix with a firmware update.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Since Ive so far never seen the "pixelation blue sky issue", can someone tell me what it is I have to do to provoke it?
Could be good to see it first hand and how it came about in order to avoid it.

Format, type of exposure etc?

I'm still trying to figure it out, so far I'm thinking underexposure could be what makes it visible, but I have to do some more tests to confirm that hypothesis.

And no I didn't "boost the saturation way more than you ever normally would and then get upset about it" on my initial test. However, on a later test I did have to push the grade to an extreme level to break it. Adding filmconvert grain is a big no no, it makes it much more visible.

52 minutes ago, harry henry said:

So did you approach BMD in Port Melbourne, or post it on Black Magic official site? Grant Petty is one of the most honourable man on the planet. He'll replace or refund you if you're not happy with his product.

No I didn't, this thread is monitored by BMD staff, and there's a thread on this issue on the BMD forum. Grant strikes me as a good guy. I don't want a refund, the camera works very well in most situations, however this blue sky problem is not an issue with my other cameras, so it's something BMD needs to have a look at.

24 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I don't get the fanboy ostrich attitude.

E : -)

Happens every time. ? Why do think I didn't post about it when I discovered it on the 9th of June, I had a big job to prep for, I didn't have the time to open that can of worms.

I’ve always had this feeling that Blackmagic cameras are never quite finished, this isn’t a problem exclusive to Blackmagic, but it seems to be more prevalent with BMD. Being a small innovative company that caters to no-budget filmmakers, I can accept that BMD cameras are a bit rough around the edges, what I can’t accept is BMD keeping quiet about flaws and not fixing them in a timely manner.

Since the days of the D90 and 5DMk2, blue skies have been a go to for testing for codec flaws, when I get a new camera it’s one of the first tests I do. I noticed the Pocket 4K macroblocking on the first blue sky shot I took with it. If BMD think this flaw is acceptable then they should market it as the ‘Pocket Hobbyist Camera 4K’, or put a landscape with a ? symbol on the box, because it falls well short of the IQ expected of a cinema camera for landscape shots. I haven't noticed any codec issues shooting interiors, it doesn't appear to be a problem there, but I have hours of shots to edit and review.

BMD needs to think very carefully about how they respond to this issue, just a hint of bullshit or patronizing will not play well for them. Users need to be told exactly what the problem is, and what is going to be done to address it.

6 hours ago, levisdavis said:

BM sure did hype BRAW didn't they.  Experienced this 3-months ago and wondered why this could ever get passed QC. 

Safe to say that BM lost a camera customer 3-months ago.  Respectfully, I had no idea BM could be so unaccountable.  They went on record stating there was no difference between CDNG and BRAW.  This was backed by beta testers as well; something I appreciated and respected before making the firmware update.

These thoughts have crossed my mind. Beta testers sign NDAs, they're gagged. With 4K raw video there's an expectation that it will produce frames that look not unlike 4K still frames. I recall one beta tester whose judgement I trust saying he couldn't break the codec. I thought BMD was different, my bad. Fool me once...

5 minutes ago, majoraxis said:

I returned the the Blackmagic Pocket 4K I purchased as it could not be reverted to the firmware version with BRAW. I purchased an USRA Mini Pro G1 instead as it can do Cinema DNG where the the USRS G2 can not and the G1 was a so much cheaper used at the time.  I anticipate that the USRA Mini Pro G1 and the BM Pocket 4K with the hardware revision that can do Cinema DNG will hold their value and be in demand for some time to come.

Does the Ursa Mini Pro G1 come with the blue sky pixelation feature? Believe me, you're going to want to have that.

I had a look at one of the CDNG blue sky examples on the BMD forum, it looks just as bad as Braw.

36 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

PS - I understand the legal reasons for Blackmagic not wanting to continue with CDNG and fully support their reasoning behind BRAW and the benefits of a BRAW workflow (although I am perfectly happy with ProRes for fast editing to be honest)... So I can appreciate why it's never coming back, but does the Pocket 4K have the ability to swap firmware versions between new and old or can it only go one way and once you lose CDNG can you never get it back?

Apparently cameras with CDNG can be downgraded back to CDNG, and cameras like mine that come with 6.21 can't be downgraded. Would I want to risk upgrading to Braw if I had a CDNG camera? Probably not. I think it was poor form from BMD not being upfront about the newer cameras not being backwards compatible with the CDNG firmware. If it weren't for this noise reduction/macroblocking issue I'd be content with Braw, but right now I'm thinking where else is it going to show up besides blue skies?