GiM_6x

So the manufacturer knows whats best for us now ? i'm not sure i agree with that view of yours, 24fps has been with us since film was invented. Its been a standard for a long time. personally i dont think removing it has anything to do with licensing fees or technical hurdles that need to be overcome they've already been there and done that. This is more about segmenting the market and bigger profits. I do have ridiculously high expectations, basically because its 2019 not 1980. If canon want me to buy a camera it needs to have all the bells and whistles, regardless of whether canon think i will need them or not. Not something that's been shot in the kneecaps and i will have outgrown in 3 months as my expectations and knowledge increase. There's a thread on here about how canon profits have plunged well if canon thinks they can keep doing dumb things like this their profits will keep plunging.
perhaps media influencers and fan boy bloggers can keep flogging these cameras to new adoptees  However all it will take is one smart blogger to say save your dollars and get the xyz camera as you'll probably outgrow your bargain basement camera in three months. so save yourself some dollars
Another point that arises is the environment, can we really afford to keep buying tiered consumer production systems ? Say you buy a cheap camera outgrow it in three months buy something newer/ better. Hand it of to your wife, sister or brother maybe even your niece, they break it after using it three times and toss it, pretty soon we are all going to be living on top of trash piles.  But the polar icecaps will have probably melted so we needed the elevation anyway ?

I never said uncompressed, but Raw should be mathematically lossless to be a legitimate Raw format. It should also have a linear gamma, little to no digital processing, and no debayering if originating from a bayer sensor. Any video format can be treated as a "digital negative" and store information that can be recovered later. Most log curves are designed to do just that.
If I make a video format that simply takes the bayer data from a sensor, pretend that every group of 3 pixels is a single RGB pixel, then apply ordinary ProRes compression to the entire thing, that's certainly not RAW at all. I suspect that is very nearly what ProRes RAW does.
You can essentially change the white balance on any video if you transform it into linear gamma before doing so. The only hindrance is that most cameras don't store the original white balance metadata in non-raw formats. As long as ProRes RAW retains all the information from pixels sufficiently, it should be just as flexible as any of the other Raw-lite formats for white balance adjustments. It does seem silly that it is not builtin, though.

Compressed it is OK, almost evrything is compressed these days.
Quality LOSS - aka you cannot recover the original info after de-compression - this is something else (a kind of jpeg!).
And it is up to you to accept an "quality loss RAW", which by itself is a contradiction.
Myself I accept a "regular" codec with quality loss. This is what I can aquire with my faboulous income (working in IT hardware, photo/video being a hobby).
I will NEVER accept a so-called RAW if you lose quality, call it anything but RAW and I may embrace it gladly.

With the "marketing" promotions - what we are dealing with right now - we start to lose words meaning.
If you accept this "kind of RAW" as a loss way to record video, it is up to you.
Will you accept me saying you are a FAT GUY since you have more than 5 lbs?
What ? This is MY WAY to say you are beatifull !
Who am I ? I am the best marketing guy in the galaxy, you have to believe me that you are FAT!
No one else can contradict me, right ??? !!!
Andrew, I appologize for this OFF-TOPIC... 
Mea culpa!
But we need to respect the words for what they means - if we want to understand each-other!

Prores RA
To reflect the crop factor.

Slightly off-topic, but the "Film Maker's Kit" doesn't actually look like a bad selection of stuff, if you don't have any of the items already. Any thoughts?

I am surprise this encoding topic do not have its own thread.
What I can say, is not that someone have computed how much you can (or want to) compress in 100MBps or 240MBps, but how much processor power it will need for real time, be it 4k30p12b444, 8k or else.
Just encoding 4k24p10b422 on Atomos external recorder get it hot with a "light" encoder as ProRes.
Think that with a h265 it will be hotter, at lest the processor, also at this bitrate the quality should be exquisite.
For a "light" encoder (or maybe RAW) the problem is to be able to write that info somewhere, as direct to an SSD, so a better encoder is a solution.
While I welcome a such encoder, it will take time to have it in prosumer area.
Being in hardware IT, a computer powerfull to do it real-time will cost few thousands... just itself, and it is many times bigger than a camera.
Reduce it to  a photo camera size and will cost much-much more, if available soon.
How many can edit "real-time" an 4k stream on his/her computer (no proxy) ? How long it take to have a POST rendered on a 4k video ?
Do not forget that sensors get bigger (definition) and quicker, but only few "pro equipment" (I cannot say "camera") are able to record 1080p at high speed as 1000fps or more, and usually for very short time sequences as seconds...
We looks like kids wondering some technical miracles, and yes, they will become common in... a... while... 

Hi Andrew, this rumor and details should be presented in perspective.
I means, the NX1's sensor was able of 4k 240fps, IN LAB SETUP, and in year 2014 or even before.
By LAB SETUP, it means you cannot have it in a "camera size", even thinking to a large format camera.
BUT,  NX1 itself was able only 30fps. What was missing? A very powerful processor.
This is valid today for any pro-consumer camera, how many are able to do it, aka 4k 240fps?
Can you hold it on your nose or on your shoulders?
This new 8k sensor (7680x4320) with 71.93fps, does not have an 4k (3840x2160) output yet in the leaked specs but it could be 4 times quicker, so 4k @ 280 fps, well 16% quicker than the one in NX1.
I can't have a smooth playback on 4k on a "normal" laptop (i7, 16GB RAM, 250GB SSD, nVidia discreet graphics) just few years old, I have to have the playback direct from NX1 on HDMI :-( . . .
8k, let me. . . hope. . . maybe in 10 years will it be in a "convenient" package not pulled in a trailer.

I reply to my own reply. . . two steps above.
I did find physical contrast filter for cameras, from a company which give no details (explications!) and show only 100% transparent (?), but in specifications were details as for an ND filter with up to x5.
All other contrast filters were in software.
It is true that an ND filter in certain conditions will increase contrast, but only in certain conditions and not generally!
Some other layers as UV / IR / bit yellow / bit red / CPL could hepl.
So, I presume is not a filter to use very often  and probable usefull only when a lot of light available.
Anyway, I will remember this trick, but most probable will use software to cheat the nature and have more vivid images!

Hi,
What kind of filters did you use to "render" AF unavailable ?
As per my knowledge, only on low light it malfunction, but here you have a lot of light.
And yes, some frames looks a bit too colored.

It is clear that Samsung show its muscles.
At least from time to time.
It is clear that Samsung is not much interested in a photo/movie CAMERA industry as we think it should be - since he has nobody to compete with ( !!! ), but this is where he show what he can really do, since as always a "regular" photo camera is something more serious compared with a smartphone camera.
Not that its smartphones cameras are not the best in the smartphone industry.
I am sure these specs, what we call right now NX2, will materialise in a real camera, but is not necessary to be produced and distributed as we want or believe it should be, it may be a limited edition as NX1, it may be a super-limited edition - not public - as for R&D show to prove its capabilities (or just its toys as someone said), it is clear politics, and not the last to show that NX line is not dead - but is not the kind of company as Canon/Nikon/Sony who make few cameras each year with so little increase in specs that only the "professional line" clients will follows each step.
I do like / love this at Samsung, every few years a real new product, some real increase in performances, for real photo lovers.
I bought NX1 last year + 16-50.S, not for Samsung name/line (also I believe in this name), but for NX1 specs/performance/price, and I am not a photo pro, the money invested are a sort of loss for me, but I will enjoy the photos/movies I did and will do with this camera.
I will ad one-two lense(s), Samsung will repair if needed (lets hope not!), and since I am an older photo sinner (yeah, 6x), for an NX2 (or whatever the name) I can trade my wife (yes, I know, Samsung will not like / want her  ), but at least I can try :-).

You said:
"There is a PCIe 3.0 x2 bus left if they decide to add something like a CFexpress card-slot,..."
That is just perfect, Samsung has an extremely performant memory card as 2TB PRO 860 SSD in M.2 connector (PCIe 3.0), much like any SD card but could be up to 2-3 times longer, with xGB/s transfer rates so I presume even 4k60 in RAW will be easy to write on it.
All I can say is WOW and hope it will be!