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....and if they did their temperature tests in a freezer or in the real world. @mercer - here's the Canon S16 camera you always dreamed of! Don't be silly - everyone knows that shooting kids sports games just needs a lot of reach and high fps, while feature films require a significantly improved image, leaving cats to be the most demanding of all. Maybe a hybrid for the sports and films and the new Alexa for the cats? Sounds about right.. unless RAW it's soft, soft, soft. Overlays disappearing also sounds about right. I wonder if anyone at Canon has a full grasp of which features work in combination with each other feature and mode? It would have to be a 27-dimensional matrix of some kind. I don't think even quantum computing can keep up with the complexities....

Odd that my YT feed didn't have a few rows of time-released review videos... maybe Canon didn't hit the usual suspect camera reviewers? Interesting cameras though if they're able to give reasonable quality 4K footage for a reasonable price, as opposed to 8K60 RAW that basically no-one needs.

I'm having a vague recollection that we've had this conversation before? I remember someone saying that 1) colour was a very high priority for them, 2) canon colours weren't good enough, and 3) they weren't willing to learn to colour grade. I remember the thread went no-where because it's not a solvable problem. Interesting video. I'm reminded of the GoPro promo videos where each 10s section was shot by a 5+ person production team over the course of a week - highly highly highly cherry-picked shots. I think for someone who doesn't want to do any work in post, a phone will actually be less usable than a larger sensor camera. Yes, the footage can look great, but if you wave the camera around and then just apply a LUT in post then an Alexa will create the most usable shots, an ILC camera will create less, and the phone will create the least, just because it has a narrower set of circumstances where all factors are within its sweet spot where it creates a great looking image. If only they were limited to being a senior - I've been having them my whole life!

Very exiting news - probably the most excited I will ever be for a camera I would never use! It will be hugely interesting to see what they come up with. I know it's a "new sensor" but in a way so is the ALEV III, and the ALEV II before that. In terms of improvements, you only have to compare the later vs earlier versions of that to see that they really did improve the colour. I wonder what was holding them back?

Actually, there are a few vocal pros posting here of late, but the majority are not pros. You mentioned not wanting to learn colour, but @Djangos advice is right - shoot in LOG and just use a LUT. The reason that SOOC doesn't work with "cinematic" and "family" and "video" is that SOOC profiles have limited dynamic range and this has a very video look to it, which is the opposite of cinematic. It is possible to get great looking SOOC footage, but you have to control your lighting and guess what - that's not what you're doing when you shoot family stuff! Shoot LOG and use a LUT or transform. "learning colour" isn't what you think it is either. "learning colour" is kind of like saying "learning painting". It takes 2 minutes to learn to hold a brush and paint stick figures, and many lifetimes to learn to paint like Rembrandt. If you want your footage to look cinematic then you're going to at least have to learn how to adjust whitebalance in post. One of the least cinematic looking things I see is when people don't do that on their videos. What about video? OP said he's 70% video and 30% stills.

Wow - hugely impressive results (as usual). I must admit that the allure of a zoom lens has entered my thoughts of late, just through the sheer convenience of being able to see something and then capture it without delaying so much that the composition has evaporated. The FZ2000 really is something! Yeah, first time I've seen an anamorphic offering with enough squeeze and low-enough weight that I'd even contemplate it for guerrilla hand-held work. I was hoping that the cheap Chinese manufacturing would eventually make anamorphic glass affordable and then accessible and it looks like it's finally happening. Super interesting!

Well spotted... The Komodo sure is an interesting piece of tech, especially so given the top screen and ability to mod it with a medium-format style loupe and get away with a cinema camera without needing an external monitor. ....and the image from the Komodo... well, not must else to be said really. Rigs are so interesting as they're a real glimpse into the logic and workflow someone is using. and they're especially difficult to do well when you're going with a small setup, rather than fully-featured but heavy. My pick would be just coffee, and in a double-walled cup to keep it hot longer. The problem with reading and eating/drinking is that the food gets cold! Yeah, I've been watching Caleb Pikes adventures with those older cinema cameras and been really surprised about how involved and demanding the accessories are - they're really entire ecosystems in a way that just isn't the case with DSLR/MILC cameras. The image though, is worth it if you can source the equipment and work around the limitations.

That's a real bummer (or as @PannySVHS says and I agree with - 6x the bummer!). I customised my lens set around that 2x feature on the GH5. I had a 17.5mm and 42.5mm, but the 17.5mm (which was the default lens and on the camera most of the time) with the 2x zoom was 35, which is very close to the 42.5, so I swapped from the 42.5 to a 50mm lens, giving me more reach and extending the useful range of my setup to include 17.5 / 35, and 50 / 100mm. Perhaps it will be coming with a future firmware update? I mean, they already have the architecture in there to downsample a given area of the sensor to a given resolution, so hopefully it just means coding up the feature, or (if the firmware is based on previous GH cameras) simply enabling it and customising it for the GH6 sensor. As you say, switching to 4K is an option, but it really defeats the purpose of filming with 1080p in the first place which is speed in post. Interesting. The 12K sensor isn't dual-gain is it? I don't recall reading that anywhere. Come to think of it, I also don't recall reading that it's dual native ISO either, and I do recall that it's low-light isn't that great compared to, say, the P6K sensor which is dual native ISO. When the rumours were flying around about a BM box camera I was torn between wanting the 12K sensor as it does look beautiful and when configured in lower resolution modes has great readout speeds etc, and wanting the P6K sensor as it has the dual native ISO which gives better low-light at higher ISOs.

To be fair, the GH6 noise is compressed (I'm assuming it's the Prores, but could be h26x) and the R5C RAW isn't, so the noise is likely to be sharper (for want of a better word). I'm not sure that compression alone could turn the R5C RAW noise into the GH6 noise though. Maybe some other processing is going on. Resolve has a nice ability to do NR on the chroma and luma independently, which can yield nice results if you reduce the chroma and leave the luma relatively in-tact. Of course, the R5C RAW gives you the full ability to do that in post however you would like. I really think that NR is an art that no-one seems to talk about online. I've experimented enough with NR / sharpening / adding grain (and seen what other people do with film-emulation etc) to know that it's not easy and that I'm really not good at it!

I had a vague recollection about the OG pocket / BMMCC being dual-gain, but didn't know the Ursa 4.6k ones were too. The Ursa's are S35 aren't they? I wonder how the DR compares to the ALEV.

No, that's Dual Native ISO, not Dual Gain like the GH6 is. Dual Native ISO is when the camera has two native ISO values that it can choose from and picks the best one to use at any given time. Dual Gain (in the sense of the ALEV, Canon DGO, and GH6) is when the sensor has two outputs that each have a different gain and those two outputs are used simultaneously and combined with each other to create a higher DR image, in-camera, in realtime. This is the info from ARRI - https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/technology/alev-sensors It's something people get confused between, because it's so rare and.... innovative.

Great to hear - I'm also looking forward to any stills you're able to share. I did a lot of resolution testing on the GH5 and comparing the 5K / 4K / 1080p modes on a 4K timeline revealed almost no difference and while editing the test together I sometimes had to look at the resolution of each clip to determine which mode it was in. A bit of sharpening easily took care of the overall feel of the image, and once I had pixel-peed on the footage enough I learned where to look for the tiny little details that gave it away, but I there are so many things that are more important to an image that no-one would ever get to the point of having sorted them all out and get to this point. VFX is an exception of course. The pixel:pixel modes are always mushy because they're not oversampled, that's just the norm for any camera. It's a wonderful place we've gotten to when oversampled images are the norm - I remember when Andrew was writing about how much better oversampling was and doing comparisons.

I really hope that once you guys have figured it out you'll post a summary... you lost me a few pages ago!

Yeah, that stood out to me as a real advantage in my imperfect real-world shooting. I've previously found the grain on the GH5 150Mbps 4K mode to be pretty good at higher ISOs as well. The noise on the R5C doesn't seem as nice - and that banding wasn't at all aesthetically neutral!

Great stuff! Simple concept, clean compositions and overall seems like it was well executed. With such strong content and cast it's best just to keep it simple and not have the production get in the way. Well done 🙂

Lots of good discussion on various aspects, but I think perhaps you're being a little unfair. First reason is the Dual Gain sensor. The GH6 DGO sensor is what, the third ever released in a camera? ARRI ALEV, then Canon DGO, and now GH6. If you cast your mind back to before it was released and the speculation about what a potential GH6 might include, there were expectations that it would 'wow' and really stand out from the pack (or that it would need to), and I don't think anyone predicted a DGO sensor. I suspect I might have mentioned it, but if I did it would have been a passing fantasy rather than a real prediction. It was more than anyone could even think of to ask for. and then it arrived in a GH camera. Why isn't this simply blowing away everyone? Unfortunately, the DR from it just doesn't seem to wow. I think there's a few reasons for this. One is that an MFT sensor has an outright disadvantage in terms of light-gathering ability over S35 and FF through physical size (two stops compared to FF and one compared to S35), but even beyond that, the DR measurements just aren't that impressive, compared to single-gain sensors. I wonder if the GH6 sensor has been in the pipeline for so long that it's a DGO implementation of an older technology? Regardless, with it's two-stop light-gathering disadvantage from FF, it didn't rocket to the top of the DR test charts, and that's what people want right, "best ever" headlines - not "best ever (in it's class and taking into account blah blah blah)" headlines. I must admit I'm a little disappointed by its measured DR, especially considering the original S35 ALEV sensor only has one stop of light advantage but has well over one stop of DR, plus it's decade-old tech at this point. I also think we haven't seen enough stuff from this to truly understand what this looks like when pushed to its full potential. GH6 footage is actually pretty thin on the ground, and the meticulously crafted footage (like we all refer to when talking about other cameras) is even rarer still. Second reason is that the GH line is an all-rounder, which is difficult in itself. Lots of competitors do a few things well, and a few things really really badly. The GH line doesn't really have an achilles-heel, and before you say "autofocus" think again - the AF on the GH6 is actually very respectable, it's just not world-class. If most cameras reallocated awesomeness from their killer-features to their weaknesses, their killer features wouldn't be killer anymore. It's like there's only so many awesome points that a camera can have, and it has to choose which features to put them into and which to sacrifice. The GH line has prioritised not having huge flaws rather than having headline features. Some examples. P4K - stepping right over the fact it's a cinema camera and automatically lacks about half the features of the GH6, it's huge and butt-ugly, it's AF isn't even continuous, and has no stabilisation at all. Take the P4K, and think how much extra it would cost to make it a sensible forum-factor, give it functional C-AF, add IBIS, and then, you know, make it a stills camera too. The P4K is literally half the features of a GH6, with a few extra advantages. Sure, it can shoot RAW internally, but if you add an external recorder to the GH6 you get an articulating screen and it's almost still smaller! FP - I really want to love the FP but it's also sort of half-baked like the GH6 is. It makes you choose between uncompressed RAW (which is absolutely huge compared to compressed formats - this adds to the cost of media and add post-processing time which I'd prefer to avoid) and its internally compressed formats that are so lacklustre they kind of negate the benefits of choosing the camera at all. Sure, you can go external and record prores or compressed RAW of your preferred flavour, but you've added almost another $1000 (with cage, recorder, its own batteries and charging requirements, cables, etc) and now you don't have something comparable in form-factor. Also, because the FP doesn't have stabilisation, you'll need to buy stabilised lenses if you want that feature, and with the L-mount that's either adapters or pretty-pricey and limited glass. B&H list two L-mount FF lenses with IS under $1000, but they list 9 in EF mount, one is under $500. So not only does "adding stabilisation" mean you become very limited in choosing the lenses you can to use, but it puts a $500 fee on top. I know - I've been looking! Panasonics FF cameras are also less polished. The S5 doesn't have an ALL-I codec (let alone Prores). I've heard that the lower resolution modes aren't nicely downsampled from the full frame sensors. For a comparison, the GH5 will downsample the full sensor for all resolutions, all frame rates, and all levels of digital zoom. I shoot in 1080p ALL-I codec, in both 24p and 60p, and using 1x and 2x digital zoom, and every combination is downsampled beautifully. As far as I'm aware, none of the Panasonic FF cameras can do that, even the S1H which is almost double the price of the GH6 and a behemoth physically. Thirdly, some features aren't measurable (or simply aren't measured) Stabilisation is one of these. We all know that stabilisation is measured in stops, but this is only half of the picture. The "stops" is a measure of the reduction in movement that's provided by the camera when given some shake that's within its range. To put its 7.5 stops into perspective, it's a factor of 181. So if you jiggled the camera horizontally by 181 pixels, the IBIS would stabilise that so that the movement was within a single pixel - ie, zero blur. It does this by moving the sensor, and the stops is the measure of how accurately the sensor can compensate for the shake. The other variable is how far the sensor can move, and this is the one that no-one ever tests, but it's the one that's more important. The reason that travel is more important is that once you shake the camera by more than the amount its IBIS motors can move, you go from having a 7.5 stop stabilisation to a 0-stop reduction. The GH5 stabilisation was beloved by all because of how far it could move, not by how much it reduced the vibration when it was within range (which was similar to OIS lenses). MFT has an inherent advantage in this sense, but there's no way to really know how much this is in play in reality because no-one tests it. I would imagine that FF sensors have gotten better at this, but I max out the GH5 IBIS regularly, and I suspect others do as well otherwise they wouldn't have praised the IBIS back in 2017, so the last thing I want is less stabilisation! People love to compare the strengths of cameras, but when you start comparing the weaknesses, the GH6 actually does pretty well, because most features aren't so weak that they're worth talking about, or are overblown. I mean, what are the weaknesses of the GH6? It's AF isn't the best in the world - well sure but it beats the living crap out of every AFS and non-AF camera ever made, which until the last 5 years was basically every camera The base ISO of 2000 for the DR boost mode is high - it's 1.3 stops higher than ISO 800 which is the common base ISO for millions of cameras Its battery life is about an hour (I've heard people say 80 minutes of record time) - what was the battery life of the P4K and P6K cameras again? I've forgotten. It's expensive and large for an MFT camera - actually it's pretty small when you consider its got a fan, tilt/flip screen, EVF, records to a very high bitrate professional codec internally, IBIS, and a flag-ship number of knobs and buttons It also has this streaking issue that definitely isn't acceptable but I suspect will get sorted in firmware, and it also hasn't gotten the promised update to implement Prores in 4K and 1080p (which I suspect will also come with higher quality downsampling in those resolutions) and the USB recording.

I'll happily admit that I repeat myself, but I try and do so only when it adds to the conversation. Just posting negative one-liners - not so much.

Agreed. Film-making is so personal / contextual, which is why a great plethora of various cameras and related equipment abounds. I see pros and cons to the various sensor sizes, everything from 2/3" in smartphones to FF and beyond. The challenge is getting something that best fits your unique needs and preferences. Fair enough. We all have individual preferences. Not exactly sure why you're commenting this over and over again though? I'm not in the anamorphic lens threads saying how I'll never buy an anamorphic lens - it wouldn't accomplish anything.

I'm not sure it will take years, but it's not here yet. I'm in no hurry. A GH5ii isn't a bad purchase actually. Yeah, I don't know much about sensor design but the guy said it was an issue of CMOS sensors and that you have to compensate for it. The problem seemed to be something that could crop up in real use.

I thought the topic was "things you can buy". ....but if you must limit it to film things, the best double feature I have ever seen was Clueless and Clockers. A true pairing, if ever there was one.

Great video showing the streaking issues that the GH6 has with its current firmware version, and comparing the streaking with other cameras that share the same technology (FX3, Red V-Raptor, Pocket 6K Pro, S1H, and GH5).. Spoiler, the GH6 is worse than the others, but all the others (except the V-Raptor) have some degree of streaking. My read on it is that since it appears to be heavily influenced by the ISO value and DR boost feature that this is something they can probably improve in future firmware updates. We all know the camera isn't really "fully baked" yet as it still doesn't have Prores in 1080p or 4K modes, and lacks other features that Panasonic promised on release. I think they rushed it out to stem the bleeding from all the "MFT is dead" BS from people who don't actually shoot anything, and will gradually improve it in future versions.

I never said it wasn't legitimate, just that that's what they did. In terms of it being a gripe, it's still got better battery than P4K and P6K, despite those cameras being enormous in comparison. I'd prefer it be smaller than it is and be lower-resolution and therefore need less processing and therefore be smaller and still have better battery life. You'd prefer it to be larger with better battery. We'd both prefer it had 27 stops of DR. This is camera-land..... where no-one gets what they want.

It's backwards compatible with the GH5. Plus the camera supports lots of other power options so you can make it bigger if you want to.

If they lift the camera above their heads then boom... drone shot! Let's put those 7' tall people to work!! People have been saying this about every latest thing when it gets overused. I am against not using the tools and techniques that are creatively relevant to the project. Gimbals create a certain type of motion that is appropriate for a certain aesthetic, but inappropriate for all others. Same with literally every other camera support and technique for holding a camera in 3-dimensional space. There's a reason that Hollywood still uses hand-held, sliders, cranes, dollies, and static locked-off shots - they all work. Same with focal lengths, degrees of background defocus, shutter angles, frame-rates, etc. It's all aesthetics. Learning how to use each technique turns you into a camera operator, learning when to use each one is a fundamental requirement to being more than a technician. Sadly, most people don't progress beyond this. Most won't be able to articulate why they are doing what they're doing beyond basic technical concerns (cameras shake, etc).

Double cheeseburger