MdB

Finally, wondered when the focus guide from the Cinema (and XF400) was coming to Canon mirrorless. This will be amazing for MF work. Hopefully this will carry over to video as well. That alone is a HUGE selling point. 

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

That photo is one nice looking kit. ?

28-135 is ok, very handy but not a great lens. I prefer the look of this new 28-70. Also these are supposedly USM lenses but with no distance window (shown in EVF). Plus it looks like those control rings (and that is supposedly what they are) might be declickable. 

Also looks like definitely no IBIS. Video specs are looking reasonably close to XF400, so hopefully 1080/120 is still on the cards. 

3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Some mock size comparisons from Canon Rumors. Assuming this is close, the 24-105 looks to be only slightly shorter than the current DSLR version, no surprise there. The version with the cameras side-by-side isn't an accurate size representation if both lenses share the same 77mm filter size. There's also an image with the 28-70 compared to the 24-105.

Chris

Yep, I compared on the basis that the side by side was accurate. That made the RF 24-105 have a 62mm filter thread. Then overlaying the 28-70 over that AND the EF 24-105 II looked about the same size. 

Reality though is that the 28-70 is something akin to the Sony 28-135mm f/4... which makes sense. 

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well this is how big 95mm looks like filter size. Sony 28-135mm f4.0.

 

Yep, same sort of weight too. That size never bothered me, especially with the lighter overall body. That combo weighs less than my 1DC with Sigma 50mm attached. 

29 minutes ago, MattH said:

The 35mm f1.8 is an EF-M lens for the existing aps-c mirrorless, so in fact all the RF lenses are L lenses.  The lenses are appealing in their specs as well.  They are actually the most appealing aspect.

You’re thinking of the EF-M 32mm f/1.4. This lens as leaked is an IS Macro lens for the RF mount. 

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

The GM isn't a small lens, but that's ok with me if the IQ is great

I know. But I think sizes have been greatly exaggerated. 

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

I understand you're excited, but physics is a bitch. 

What physics? Oh right, you don’t understand them you’re just throwing throw away comments around like it’s a real thing with substance and meaning. 

I overlayed the reference images and yes, it’s about almost exactly the size of the 24-105mm f/4 L II, 77mm filter thread and all. 

New 24-105L RF looks like it has 62mm filter thread. 

54 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

The fact that some lenses have IS is very poor news for potential IBIS. 

 

Sony has IBIS and has IS lenses. Panasonic has IBIS and IS lenses. Fujifilm has IBIS and IS lenses. Nikon uses both VR and IBIS on the Zeeeee. 

No way Canon will release a 24-105mm f/4 and have no form of IS for it. 

43 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

28-70 is going to be a big chunk of glass, but if its sharp that could be a 'bag of primes' type lens. 

It’s the size of the ‘old’ 24-105 L II. Probably weighs more, but hardly massive. That also happens to put it around the size of Sony’s GM 24-70. 

44 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

by the end of next year along with another body with whatever sensor the next 5dsr gets (some rumors have it at 60mp).

5DS had an upscaled 7D II sensor. 60MP is basically a FF version of the 24MP in the M50. 

45 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

All in all, good times. Just like with the Nikon, I'll rent as soon as its available. Until my switch to all mirrorless a few years ago I was a long time Canon shooter. This could bring me back into the fold once the trinity is out.

I recently went all-in on Canon after playing with lots of systems out there. This one makes me excited. 

45 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

The lenses are super interesting, if they are as sharp as nikons (which I doubt since they are so small, they look more like the classic approach, sharp in center, dark corners), canon will be n1 by a large margin.

Hahaha yeah yeah Nikon will have better lenses lol. 

Mom another note, that 28-70mm f/2L is almost exactly the same size as the 24-105mm L II. So 77mm filter thread. The 28-70 is just a bit narrower near the mount. 

So everyone thinking it is huge - no

5 minutes ago, Django said:

More like the Super35 mode in 1DC. Actual Super35 not 1.74x crop. And of course FF. For both 4K & 1080p. 

The difference between the (more like 1.64x) crop and S35 is pretty negligible. If you want 1:1 readout, that’s the crop. The 24MP gives about 10MP (3:2) in 1.5x crop, about perfect for 1:1 UHD. The 30MP is about 12MP at 1.5x crop from memory. Thus the slight extra crop. 

5 minutes ago, Django said:

More like the Super35 mode in 1DC. Actual Super35 not 1.74x crop. And of course FF. For both 4K & 1080p. 

The difference between the (more like 1.64x) crop and S35 is pretty negligible. If you want 1:1 readout, that’s the crop. The 24MP gives about 10MP (3:2) in 1.5x crop, about perfect for 1:1 UHD. The 30MP is about 12MP at 1.5x crop from memory. Thus the slight extra crop. 

37 minutes ago, Django said:

Hopefully there is a Super35 full readout mode in addition to pixel binned FF (a la Z7) wishful thinking I know..

You mean like the 30MP sensor already does in the 5D IV? 

17 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Probably a cinema camera.

But, if it is indeed a Leica SL clone as some have guessed. Which would mean cheap Panasonic SL glass... then Canikon, Fuji and Panasony mirrorless cameras can suck it. I would bag a used SL

Me too. Nearly bought one this week already. Needs lenses from third parties though. Panasonic using the same mount would be amazing. 

5 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Haven't seen anything about 4k frame rates so who knows, you might be getting ahead of yourself. 

True. Everyone has been going off rumoured specs, but they were clearly wrong in most ways. 

Also so really looking forward to the new compressed RAWs and JPEG engine of Digic 8. These are actually way better on the M50 than the 5D IV. So it will be nice to see those improvements in an ethicists model. New codec is heaps better too. 

8 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Hey, remember when everyone said Canon was too late to the game and they couldn't bring a mirrorless that could compete? 

28-70/2, 50/1.2, 35/1.8 and a EF adapter with a drop in filter slot? All that's missing for me is a UWA zoom and a 70-200. And they're even brining a 400/2.8 and 600/4 for the wildlife/sports shooters.

Damn.

Chris

Considering how well DPAF works with EF lenses, they already have the 70-200’s well and truly covered. Yes a wide will be nice just for the smaller size. 

I guess they’ve gone with a new mount to keep it locked down like Nikon have. EF-M AFAIK is basically electronically compatible with EF. 

I dumped Sony a while ago. Gave them a brief shot with the A7 III. Nikon have zero interest in, just doesn’t look interesting at all. 

Canon have nailed it. I’ve wished they’d make a decent enthusiast camera in about the size of a 200D and here it is. 

4K might be cropped and a few other things, yet I don’t care one bit. 

51 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Dang. Could be a winner. Wonder about sensor stabilization, 4K crop + further specs (60p/10-bit/...) and audio-interface though.

What is that image supposed to say? There's an electronic focus rocker on the back? Sounds interesting. Is that 2 focus rings then though? Olympus does the de-clutch thingie... they do both hard stop and fly-by-wire? Or is that just a grippy bit to hold the lens steady while you screw a filter on?

I suspect it is a programmable control ring, like what is in G7X and RX100. A bit like the aperture ring on the Fuji’s, except can have different functions. It’s also available on the EF adapter too. 

10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It looks like it may be a function dial like the Nikon Z lenses have on the back that you can program for different functions.

Unless I missed it I don't see a Joystick anywhere on it? That seems like a odd thing to not include unless that rocker switch is suppose to function like one among other usues??

I guess they have forgone the joystick in favour of touch screen? It still has the D-pad. It’s more 6D than 5D by the looks overall (which I’m perfectly fine with). 

Will be buying with 28-70, 50/1.2 and 35/1.8 Macro. 

9 hours ago, 2xtremecreative said:

If that's a mockup, I like it.

It’s a Sony A9 with a Canon logo. 

4 hours ago, gnomesteel said:

Hasn't Canon said they won't put 4k in mirrorless because of the C line?

Nope, quite the opposite. Canon have said recently that they are going to take video more seriously in their stills cameras. I think it makes sense, they took some time to build and establish the C-line, but now that it is used by working pros, they can use those features in their hybrids. They aren’t going to lose C-line business doing this, but will lose business to Sony. They don’t like that. 

They’ve started already putting 4K and C-Log hybrid and consumer products. 

4 minutes ago, aldolega said:

Sounds like the ND adapter will basically be an OEM version of the FotoDiox ND Throttle. Which I've actually been pretty pleased with so far actually. If the Canon version is electronic, and/or can move out of the way, that would be pretty awesome.

I was going to say the same thing. The ND throttle fusion is awesome, glad to see it coming here. Being able to do clear option would be extra amazing, but unlikely. 

I don’t see an XLR audio adapter accessory (yet). 

19 hours ago, Django said:

4k with minimum APS-H crop & best quality in-camera 1080p in S35 mode

I may have to test that. The S35 is nice (especially that it has C-Log), but I'm not sure it is better than the 5D IV's 1080p or even the M50s. 

19 hours ago, Django said:

C-log. Classic Canon colors. I just may pick one up as a side-arm to my C100 if Canon doesn't come through with a promising MILC this fall.

Who knows what they'll bring out. But yes I think the 1DC is an excellent compliment to the C100. Offers that great 4K as well as a nice well matched S35 crop mode that is probably very similar looking. 

19 hours ago, Django said:

I'd be curious to see this 4k mode HDMI 1080p from the 5DIV/1DC but i already know i'd find it a major hassle to record externally just to get a quality cropped 1080p, with poor RS.

I find the 5" BM works really well. But yes, both cameras have poor RS. Not nearly as bad as the M50 in 4K though. 

10 hours ago, Django said:

Apple & oranges a bit I'd say. C100 is a proper cine cam with ND filters, flip screen, XLR, peaking/zebras/waveform & DPAF with the upgrade. 1DC is a hybrid cam, so you get a killer stills cam but you do get FF, S35 & APS-H 4K on the video side.

Addition of a monitor picks up pretty much everything except the NDs. 

10 hours ago, Django said:

IQ wise i think @MdB said C100 had nicer motion & maybe tad sharper 1080p?

1DC has better 1080p when using external. Hands down. The C100 though is better to shoot and really ready to go. 1DC is way more fiddly. C100 has less RS and the balance plus limited RS means very natural looking handheld unstabalised - Not something I get with most 'hybrids'. 

1DC would probably go better on a gimbal. It can also be picked up as is and still shoot, which is kind of nice (though it is no lighter than a C100 but way worse grip). 

Battery life is way better on C100 as well. Still images are about 1000000000000x better on the 1DC. Build is better as well along with weather sealing (not that C100 is badly built). 

I really need to get that 5D IV into service for C-Log ASAP to actually do some tests. 

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Fingers crossed on the GRiii at Photokina.

Yes please. 

45 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Don't forget the G7 to G9, which are two products with totally different markets. 

Yep! I mean it sort of makes sense, somewhat, at the time. But then their range is all over the place. The G85 takes over the G7, G9 above as a higher end in that series... ugh. 

On 8/28/2018 at 3:09 AM, mercer said:

Yeah... that is pretty spectacular looking. I know mjpeg is highly unpopular in these here parts, but I often wonder how much it contributes to the 1DC’s “look,” because 6 years later and I have yet to see another 4K capable camera with that level of output.

I'd say that's part of it, probably. MJPEG is basically the JPEG engine from Canon DSLRs as video @ 24/25/30fps. So it has that look, but adds C-Log to compress the DR in. 

I'd say though, that the 1DC is also one of the last of the Canon 'old colour' that they are most known for. SOOC colour is better on the 1DC than the 5D IV IMO. The 1DC therefore represents the best video they do with that old Canon colour and in that way it's rather special / unique. 5D IV has a much more green colour tint to it. 

I think the 1DC will go down as one of those very special and collectable cameras. I've been enjoying the features (PDAF) of the 5D IV and M50, but going back to the 1DC is just something else. 

10 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

You see you (and another poster) have expressed a view that people are inherently drawn to buy into a brand by their 'halo' products. I just dont think that is the case. I think the camera market a bif like 'drugs'. They buy into the the market through 'gateway drugs'

Well actually it's both. Punters need the 'gateway' models to get started and the 'halo' products are what get those people advising the punters all hot under the collar. Average Joe buying their first ILC likely has no idea what a Noct lens is. That isn't the point. BUT 'we' don't spend hours discussing 1500Ds either. 

10 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

say a Nikon D3500, a couple of zooms and a 50 1.8 prime (the D3000 series accounts for 50% of Nikon's sales.) The reason they buy in at the lower end is that they dont really know how seriously they are going to take it - indeed many/most buyers dont take it much further.

So which is it, are Nikon only going upmarket or are these models attractive to newcomers? You seem to be a bit all over the shop in your references.

10 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Olympus is proof of this. They have moved relentlessly upmarket and all they have achieved is less and less ILC sales and mounting losses with a US$58m loss forecast this year.

That's not even remotely true. I feel you are switching between what's really out there and what you perceive. Olympus didn't stop making budget friendly products. They have released some more high end products but that doesn't delete the myriad of affordable ones from their product line. The most recent camera releases have been E-M10 III and E-PL9, both part of their budget friendly line. They still also sell the previous models for less for those who don't need 4K video. 

As for making losses, well that isn't new. From what I last read their strategy has been mostly working for them in that they are haemorrhaging less, because they are going upmarket. Plus they are doing less fire sales on outgoing low tier models (which doesn't make them any money nor give them a loyal installed base). The E-M10 series seems to compete quite well with the M5 and M50, while the E-PL series with the M6 and M100. 

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Agreed 110%

Where is the cheap Olympus MFT camera to get newbies to fall in love with Olympus? 

Seriously? 

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I really do hope we don't see Panasonic committing the same folly, as we're seeing early signs they might be. 

Panasonic product strategy is all over the shop, that does not bode well for loyal customer base. They keep making the same mistakes by 'reinventing' popular lines. The GF1 got butchered into the GF series *sigh* and the GX series from GX1 to GX7, then the GX8 and down to the GX9. It's an absolute mess. GM1 and GM5 and then the shape was borrowed for more cheapo, awful GF series. Now they are supposedly dumping the G series... 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I saw this at B&Hphoto today and it pretty much sums up why Canon will dominate in mirrorless....

I think people have a very skewed idea of what 'dominating' means. 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Never mind that the 28-75 2.8 is supposed to be plasticky, the 50 1.8 is supposed to be horrible and the 85 1.8 isnt supposed to have great bokeh.

28-75mm is amazing (but imperfect). It is light and not intended to be 'rugged', but is built to a very good standard. 50mm f/1.8 is way better than the Canon 50mm STM and somewhat better than the Nikon 50mm AF-S. 85mm f/1.8 is the best of it's ilk by anyone as far as I can tell. I'm not sure how the bokeh really plays into your argument. 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

At the end of the day consumers 'buy value/cheap'. The same applies to APSC where Fuji offers the 'quality/expensive product' but where its market share is so low nobody actually knows what it is. While Canon with minimal efforts is making great inroads. Fuji is releasing an 'amazing' US$6,000 200mm F2' while Canon doesnt sell an EOS-M lens over US$500. Look there is always a market for high end, ground breaking, mtf chart lenses which are inevitably very expensive - but it just isnt a very big one.

Canon don't make lenses in that range because by the time you are bolting on a massive 200mm f/2 IS lens, you might as well use the one they already make, with adapter. This is something Canon actively promote as a benefit of the EF-M system. So in effect they are already making those lenses (and many more expensive ones too). 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

All the mirrorless manufacturers are going relentlessly upmarket leaving a large gaping hole for Canon to walk through.

That's because that is where the money is. Nobody but fanboys cares one iota about volume when there is no profit in it. Lower tiers are being relentlessly dumped because those markets are moving to smartphones. Canon also had a bewildering array of Powershots when that market was disappearing. Doesn't mean they are doing well out of it. 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

You see the great achievement of Nikon and Sony in FF mirrorless is to create fabulous high tech FF mirrorless at 'relatively affordable' price of under US$2,000. But it is a complete waste of time if even the most basic of your lenses are over US$500 a pop.

Incorrect. People who are buying these cameras are much more likely to buy lenses and yes at those prices and (much) higher. This is called attachment rate and this is what manufacturers are aiming for. People who buy a base model DSLR and kit lens don't ever buy lenses. When they buy a new one, they buy again with kit lens (so could buy any brand). High end mirrorless is where all the attachment rate happens. Nobody is (completely) ignoring the lower end (except Nikon), Sony release new RX100's every year (really popular with the DSLR + kit lens crowd) and they have plenty of APS-C models to choose from and the kinds of lenses entry level users buy (if any). They don't need to release a new camera every week to have something comparable in this segment. Heck the A6000 is still getting compared to the M50. What Sony don't bother with is an array of expensive APS-C specific lenses, but for entry level there are plentiful options. 

Fujifilm are the same. So are Panasonic. So are Olympus. 

Canon have only played in that area to date, because yes there is volume and because they weren't wanting to cannibalise sales of 6Ds and 5Ds etc. 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Sure Sony has now 'eventually' got a few affordable lenses but there simply arent many (especially compared to Canon and Nikon DSLRs.) Both Sony and Nikon are absorbed with huge amounts of hubris - Nikon bringing out a US$6,000 58 0.95 with manual focus  (before a basic long zoom) and Sony is promoting its lightweight, 3kg, US$12,000 400 2.8.....

Sony had 'affordable' lenses from day dot for the market they were aiming. 

Those lenses might be getting headlines, because they are new. They won't be volume movers, but are halo products that help move lower tier products, including the ones you think make up the majority of the market. People buy Canons because the person they know who is a 'camera person' said they can't go wrong with one. Or the spotty store clerk sold them one because that's the one they heard of. But in the top end of town things are very different. Thus Sony selling more FF cameras than anyone in the 1st 6 months this year. Canon are selling lots of 1500Ds (in volume), but in the markets we are interested in thats not the case. 

16 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

So in all likelihood Canon will enter the FF mirrorless market with a totally underwhelming camera, with lenses that are uninspiring (but you wont have to have to make the excuse they look good value against Leica.) And much to everyone's irritation but no surprise they will walk away with the market

Considering they have these uninspiring models in the FF sector at the moment (one of which I own over the 'inspiring' models) and can't beat Sony in FF sales, what makes you think they are suddenly going to with a FF mirrorless? They haven't been able to do that with mirrorless APS-C and I don't see that changing if they keep being 'uninspiring'. 

5 hours ago, wolf33d said:

BS. Nothing to do with Canon dominating mirrorless. They will probably have a new mount like Nikon and start from 0. Sony lenses are great. Canon dominates DSLR world because of the EF lineup and because of their name. Japanese people like the name. They are far behind Sony in the US for mirrorless. 

And now FF. Canon ran away from the US mirrorless market with their tails between their legs with the joke that was the EOS M1 (I owned like 6 over the years). People overestimate Canon's abilities and market power by a factor of about 10 I reckon. 

5 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Amazing sharpness and a 28-75 range with 2.8 for this weight at this price is unheard of in the photo world. It's absolutely amazing to have a standard zoom this light yet with amazing corner to corner sharpness.

Yep. That lens is phenomenal! Too bad it isn't coming to the Nikon Z any time soon, that lens alone would sell me on a Z6. 

On 8/27/2018 at 6:10 PM, dafreaking said:

I hope you are joking sir.. was looking at getting one,

Don’t you know Nikon has an A7 now? Oh I mean Z7, see it’s different. How dare you consider the Sony when the clearly superior Nikon has already been announced? 

On 8/26/2018 at 11:56 PM, Kisaha said:

The only Fuji camera I "respect" in its specific tier is X-T20, so obviously is not the golden standard, it is just an example.

Another example is the approach of Panasonic for the GH5, they took the decision to produce one of the biggest and heavier mirrorless cameras ever, so they could create an overspeced video "monster".

Does not humidity and overheating affect electronics? I live on a European country and I spend a lot of money for dehumidifiers (Pingi are great for small places).

Especially in sound, humidity can affect top microphones from the likes of Schoeps, DPA, Sanken, Neumann and others (some of the most expensive brands in the world), that is why most of us hold at least one Sennheiser 416 in our arsenal, and it is the microphone of choice for tropical/jungle documentaries.

Also a lot of microphones are coming with wooden cases, or others, that absorb humidity.

 

I think you’re deeply confused at how humidity works. 

Not sure what this has to do with overheating? Most fanboys claimed the X-T2 simply didn’t overheat, because of the 15min cutoff, yet were complaining that the Sony’s ‘only’ recorded for 2hrs+ before ‘overheating’, which of course was unacceptable. 

Most Canon fanboys complained about the overheating in 4K and how unacceptable it was, compared to their non-4K capable Canons. 

Most Samsung fanboys just cried that Sony took all the glory and that their ‘better’ product sank into a hole of misery after 29-misery inducing models that came before... but, but, but NX1! 

Most Nikon fanboys were like ‘what’s videooooo’. 

Meanwhile the m43’s fanboys were just, as usual, being angry about how unfair it is that people do in fact compare sensor size. 

7 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Prepare your laugh though... let’s see the codec, bitrate and crop

Crop may remain a problem for Canon. Sony have fixed this issue for everyone else (Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Fuji) but Canon go it alone with their sensors. Bitrate and codec are for the most part fixed with Digic 8 as shown on the M50 with the 150Mbps 4K (which is quite nice). It would be nice to finally have a product with both the compressed MPEG4 AND the MJPEG. 

7 hours ago, wolf33d said:

4K30p is so boring though and no FHD 120p Still waiting for a 4K60p FF that is not 6000$ and 1.5kg....

Disappointing. Still nothing in the Canon camp for that. Plus that 1.5kg is really only APS-H for 4K60. 

Sony A7S III maybe? 

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

If it really has those specs they Need to go out of business.

Doesn't seem a world away from the Z6. 

6 hours ago, ntblowz said:

sounds awfully similar to the spec of M5 II rumor

That's what I thought the other day, but not at $1900. I also don't think we'll see IBIS on the M5 II. 

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Nikon gives you 10bit output, I bet Canon won’t!

Yep, seriously doubt it. Bet you I still prefer the Canon images though. 

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I can't imagine Canon would let Nikon have a better Video product. That would be embarrassing as hell.

I don't think Canon could care less what Nikon is doing. 

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Yeah, I don't think Canon is all that concerned with being beat on the video front in their DSLR or Mirrorless cameras. They willingly let Sony and Panasonic take over there.

True. They have publicly stated though that video is much more important to them now. 

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I'd have thought Sony over the last 5 years would've been enough to get them to go on the offensive but it didn't seem to. 

Uhm, well if this product launches in two weeks I would say Sony are exactly why they are doing it. You can't seriously believe the Z6/Z7 announced days ago had anything at all to do with it? Nikon AND Canon are developing these products because they are threatened by Sony (although all the fanboy sites will try and tell you that Sony was never a threat at all, so I wonder why they are cloning their 'losing' product strategy). 

48 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

If it has C-log and a decent codec, i'm in.

C-log is not a given. Decent codec will be 100%. C-log is something they have reserved heavily in their DSLR market, with only the 1DC and 5D IV (begrudgingly, later) getting the C-log treatment. 

48 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Good 1080/60p is all I need. IBIS and DPAF, colour and DR are way more important than 4K (to me). Should be a great still cam too. 

Yep, yep and yep. 

19 minutes ago, Django said:

My guess is an M50 II to throw a bone to Canon users thinking of switching to Z..

No Canon users are thinking of switching. 

And no, before anyone rants at me, I don't think this will be significantly improved 'ergonomics' over the Sony mirrorless cameras. Just as I don't think Nikon extracted any miracles out of a unicorn anus. That is unless it is a Canon DSLR body with an EVF and no mirror, which is possibly a thing... a very weird and pointless thing. 

3 hours ago, Jn- said:

Thanks Mdb for getting back with this, and also the recorder suggestions.  I might wait for the Ninja V as another option.  

When you say .. “between those two”, are you referring to my items (1) and (3) or my items (2) and (3)?  Thanks in advance.  

I'm mainly curious to see if the FHD output (via 4K internal to HDMI) is indeed better than if downscaled to FHD from 4K on an NLE timeline.

Do you think the Ninja V would be suitable for the 5D IV also?

Sorry I think I may have mixed them around. It’s not something I’ve yet tested, because I don’t see a huge point. The advantage of the 4K - 1080p downsampling through the HDMI is the better compression plus easier to deal with files. I don’t see there being ‘much’ difference in the IQ between the two TBH. That’s not to say the 1080p looks the same as 4K, but that downsampling in NLE or in the fly will have much of a difference. 

But it’s something I will definitely test. Also want to see the 1DC and 5DIV 4K straight to card and see the difference there (both with C-Log). I’ve had a lot of trouble finding any other references to such a test elsewhere. 

I seem to remember the 5D IV in 4K (to camera) not being ‘that’ much better than the 1080p out of the C100. The 1DC and 5D IV both seem to do a bit better 1080p (from the 4K off sensor) than the C100 does. 

Basically these do some of the best 1080p I’ve seen anywhere. But I really think it need the C-Log.  

2 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Its an interesting video and the short he shot looks very good. His enthusiasm for the camera seems both genuine and infectious.

But what really struck me through the video was how it seems like a DSLR shooter who has just had a mirrorless epiphany. Lightweight on a small gimbal, longer drone flights, ibis is like a gimbal built into the camera, accurate focusing. I particularly liked his comment at the 38th minute....

'This was the big breakthrough for me..... all of a sudden the ability to shoot video while looking through the electronic viewfinder - game changing - completely game changing for a guy like me.,...'

Context is everything right...

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

They still have a pretty amazing output to this day.

Absolutely. Thus why I bought one. 

20 hours ago, Jn- said:

Hi Mdb, if you get the time, or perhaps you have already checked, what order of quality, say lowest to highest, would you put the following 3 items in the 5D mk. IV ... (1) FHD .. (2) 4K downsampled to FHD in an NLE .. and (3) FHD in external recorder via camera 4K, thanks.  As i’ve said I cannot test, no external recorder, but if the FHD item (3) is a lot better than (2) I will consider, good luck with your new purchase.

There is a definite and distinct improvement in image quality between those two. The disadvantage being the crop and the rolling shutter. 

Fortunately a s/h Ninja is going for peanuts these days if price is a concern. But personally the BMVA 5" is the recorder to get (and not badly priced). 

I want to do some further tests and put a reel together, but I want to include the 1DC and the 5D IV with C-Log, which I will have to send it away for first. 

11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yep no sound. I always thought that was a WTF, in slow motion, looking to the side, moment.

SO annoying and something I completely forgot about when getting the BMVA 5" (which is otherwise my preferred option). Coming from their other C series that camera feels so backwards. 

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm sure if we give it a little time, then we'll soon enough find those unholy Canon EF to Nikon Z adapters! Complete with a sample of Holy Water to sprinkle over your (waterproofed) Nikon Z6/Z7 camera before mounting on it a Canon lens. 

Being that Nikon are keeping specs under wraps and this is a very modern mount, it seems like we may be waiting for some time. I won't be getting my hopes up any time soon. 

6 hours ago, hansel said:

would you suggest to to kill two flies in one go if I get the BM 4K assist that seems to have reasonable audio recording, phantom power, mini xlr ....as well?

I think people are confused about the N-Log compatibility - The BMVA4K should have no issues. It's at most a build in LUT on the Atomos. You will surely be able to add a LUT to the BM. 

I have a Shogun and both the 5" and 7" BM. The Shogun has the advantage of using cheaper and faster media. The BMVA4K has dual slots, which makes up for the Nikon's lack of dual slots (for video). The BM uses the smaller Canon batteries while the Shogun uses the larger Sony L series. Overall I prefer the build and balance of the BM once set up (with batteries etc attached. The screen is brighter for sure on the newer Atomos models, but I am not convinced it makes enough of a difference for me. I had the Ninja Flame, but it wasn't bright enough in many conditions. Obviously the Ninja V is a lot smaller and I definitely prefer the smaller form factor of my 5" BMVA, it then loses XLRs, dual media and dual batteries and no options for SDI etc. 

Ninja V does have that accessory port, which may add SDI or XLR in the future which could be really interesting. 

A 4K BMVA 5" with dual card slots would be the perfect setup, if only they made such a thing. 

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It has "reasonable" audio recording? I wouldn't have thought that
But depends on how you define "reasonable"

Reasonable for bread and butter work. Not good enough to replace a dedicated sound person when you should really have one. 

Almost certain to be more 'reasonable' than the built in audio. Much better than the complete lack of Audio my 1DC does over HDMI.