Django

LOL.. lighten up man, why would I be annoyed over some random dude posting random videos of random people in a random widescreen 60p combo? Like I told you, keep doing you, this is just a topic of conversation. My opinion stands though, it looks goofy. You claim it is the future, will widescreen fluid hyper real 60p motion trend? I personally don't think so. Most people see 4K60p on YT and skip the video (it doesn't stream well on your average device). Netflix only does 24p/25p/30p. Some films tried 48fps and flopped. Clear motion on Samsung TVs usually gets disabled immediately. Old cine standard or not, audiences don't seem to respond well to those higher fps. Heck even hot vlog cameras like Sony's ZVE1 tout a 24p cinematic mode. Looks like young people are trying to emulate cinema, not soap operas. 60p motion will always have that budget network TV look that is associated with local news, sports, reality tv.. etc. It has nothing to do with "rigid beliefs" or any particular cinema standard. It is what it is. A certain aesthetic. And no amount of resolution, DR, CS, codec bitrate or aspect ratio will change that. Just accept it instead of being in denial about it. 🙂 Moving on to a related note, the FX30 V2 reviewer I posted earlier mentions the new DCI 4K option goes to 48fps max so unless he's mistaken how are you even shooting DCI 4K @ 60p?

I'm just giving you my honest opinion. If you can't handle it, don't post. There is no loosening up. 60p output = soap-opera, home-video look in my book. Again a good middle ground is 30p. Call me narrow-minded if you please but I'm afraid you are alone here on this one. But yeah keep fighting the good fight! As for equipment constraints? Any smartphone can do 4K60p today. 1080P60 has been in every consumer camera for over a decade. Consumer camcorders only used to shoot in 60p. It was the default standard on broadcast TV all during the late 70s/80s/90s and still today on certain networks. 60p is nothing new. But aside from fast action sports, news reports or Wheel of Fortune type TV shows I don't really see a use for it today other than slow-mo. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and you're on to something lol.

FWIW I don't do black bars for faux cine sake. Only if shooting anamorphic do those widescreen aspect ratios make sense to me, ideally using open gate. Same with DCI, the only point is gaining extra pixels on the side. If its just cropping in cam I don't see the point. correct which is why shutter angle is useful, just follow 180 degree rule.

So why the 2:39 aspect ratio if you are not attempting to ape narrative film? Surely you know that is the old historical Panavision/Cinemascope aspect ratio? Combining that with a sport-oriented 60p motion is just super odd. And I'm the one that cannot get out of a particular mindset? Mkay.. stick to your quirky formula. I dunno of anyone doing it like that but that's ok -you do you- I'm just trying to help you understand why me and others here find it so jarring. Me? I am not stuck in a "cinema mindset". The current standard for broadcast here in Europe is 25p. 50i is the old 80s/90s standard and has the dreaded soap-opera / home-video look. It is somewhat similar in the US although you have dated broadcast standards (FOX,ABC) still using 720p 60i. 1080p cable network uses 30p natively and premium sport channels can go up to 4K60p. So you see it has nothing to do with cinema actually. Personally I shoot mostly at 25p, sometimes 30p, rarely 24p. 60p/120p/240p for slow-mo only. This is pretty much the norm today.

99% people shoot 60p for slow motion purposes on a cine cam. here is for example your parade in 60p conformed to a more standard 30p timeline for slow-mo: 30p is a good in between if you want more fluid motion. Direct 60p output is what gives the dreaded "soap opera" look or "home video" look or "camcorder" look, pick your choice of attributes. The reason why a lot of sports is shot at 60p is to allow the editor to slow-down the footage during replay. The fast motion is also suited to fast action. Shooting humans at regular motion in 60p just feels awkward. That said you are free to do as you please and "innovate" with your faux cine/tv broadcast combo of high motion widescreen aspect ratio..

So the DCI 4K in this update is revealed to be fake.. it just crops the image to make it fit 17:9. You don't gain any width like on a proper DCI mode. This is so lame and not so different from the fake ZV-E1 cinematic mode. SMH Sony. Other weirdness:

Yeah typical consumer approach that harkens back to their roots in electronics. Nothing new but its getting worse with currently 9 full-frame alpha bodies to choose from. Also Sony are no longer alone in the mirrorless scene so it would be nice if they took cues from their competitors that mostly all offer regular updates. But as long as their consumers keep quiet and upgrade cameras at every chance like sheep they'll stick with that philosophy. I think it'll eventually backfire if they don't adapt as there are growing concerns over this but we'll see if they listen or stick to their guns..

Same when I read this was the major update that turns it into a proper cine cam I thought surely shutter angle is there. What's crazy is that its the most requested feature since cameras release and surely the easiest to implement yet no dice even though we're up to V3.0. Odd to say the least, considering every other FX/FS line camera has the feature built-in from the start. I guess this is further proof FX3/FX30 are managed under the alpha stills division. They haven't got their priorities straight..

@herein2020 Well its no secret Sony is the new Canon when it comes to cripple strategy. Like I've said before such is the syndrome of leadership position. Canon have actually been great with firmware updates recently and they include things like DCI, RAW internal in their upper end non cine line hybrids. Canon claim R6ii uses a tweaked version of Digic X with lower power consumption for less heat and longer recordings. It also has the latest DPAF II engine with AI deep learning. So I don't know how much can be ported over to R5, an older gen camera already pretty crammed with features and prone to overheat. But I digress, Canon segments as well and one should buy a camera for what it does on day one. Sony just feels extra greedy towards their customers with an avalanche of product releases pushing regular hardware upgrades instead of giving you via free firmware updates (FX3/FX30 3.0 features should have been there on initial release). Obviously its a smart business strategy until it backfires and ppl switch to other systems. Panasonic does have the best reputation plus they don't over charge their products here in Europe like Canon & Sony do. Yeah no open gate is maddening (also on Canon). They're only just starting to give out DCI options so Open Gate is probably yet another decade away. 🙄 Also only two de squeeze options (1.33x & 2x) on the new firmware which is super limited considering all the affordable 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x anamorphic lenses out there.

You seem to have a complete lack of perspective and nuance from people not in your shoes. See to me FX3 isn't really a trade up. Losing the EVF and stills UI isn't something I'm particularly interested in giving up on a compact camera as a hybrid shooter. Again for true cine needs I have an FS7 which by the way has DCI 4K, LUT support, Cine EI, TC and many more important things FX3/FX30 don't even have (ND's, SDI etc) since day one. These are obviously important features to me or I would not own such a camera. But in the end this isn't about me, this isn't about you. This is about Sony doing the right thing for their customers. Hence the complaints that again don't just come from me but from many users, including Sony ambassadors. If you truly do understand Sony's bad behaviour than I don't even know what you're trying to argue besides thinking you know best what's the right tool for my job. If I'm blowing hot air, you're certainly grasping at straws here.

Listen I did not create this thread, however it is a valid topic which I'm participating in. You on the other hand keep defending Sony's position over and over again. Says more about you then it does about me I'm afraid. I'm actually glad Sony is finally giving FX3/FX30 much awaited cine features. All I said if you go back to my earlier post announcing the update yesterday, was that adding breathing comp to FX3 proves it can also be ported to A7Siii (something you claimed earlier was not possible due to hardware by the way). Not holding my breath for DCI 4K as they've never put that in a non cine alpha camera. Oh and by the way I don't need to switch.. I have an FS7 for all my pro cine feature needs.

Yeah well I still consider FX3/FX30 alpha cameras, I'm pretty sure they are managed by the stills division not the cine line. In any case since they are branded FX and marketed towards that, I do think it is good Sony are finally giving those cameras actual cine features like DCI 4K etc. Why they are still withholding shutter angle is a bit of a mystery though.. Its like we can't give away too much too soon.

Do you work at B&H or something? Most people I know don't upgrade cams every 6 months. And what about those that are hybrid shooters or that require an EVF? Ton of pros hung on to their A7Siii for that. Not everyone is a 100% videographer. Not everyone is even a professional. That's beside the point really. And its not "whining" to express dissatisfaction to Sony with an obvious cripple hammer strategy on such a high-end product. Its the most effective way to get them to listen and perhaps reconsider. Kudos to the influencers and even Sony ambassadors that have the balls to do so. I also see no issue with switching systems over this, brand loyalty is often challenged over such policies. Everyone is free to do as they want with their investments. Implying otherwise is certainly not professional, unless you're on the Sony payroll of course.

literally labelled so despite what Sony marketing may have you suggest..

A7Siii came out well before FX3/FX30 and was way overdue with about 4 years in between A7Sii. Its kinda easy today to claim it as the "wrong camera" "for people who take video seriously". Many spent their hard earned cash on it upon its release. Regardless, breathing comp and a lot of the FX3/FX30 features are creeping into Alpha bodies. No reason Sony should withhold an A7Siii firmware update, aside from cripple hammer perspective.

FX3 & FX30 just got a major 3.0/2.0 update today that adds Anamorphic De-Squeeze, True 24p, 4K DCI Recording.. and Breathing Compensation: Excellent news for users wanting more cine features and this really starts to tie these cameras to the rest of the FX line. Pretty sure this is the first time an alpha camera gets DCI 4K. About time!

FX3 & FX30 just got a major 3.0/2.0 update today that adds Anamorphic De-Squeeze, True 24p, 4K DCI Recording.. and Breathing Compensation. While this is great news for FX users, this once again proves that AI chip or not, the A7Siii is capable of more but is getting ignored atm.

This looks great, good job with the manual focus too. Kids playing soccer/football at shallow DoF isn't an easy task! Those kids were going pretty hard too, maybe USA has a shot with this next generation. 😉 And yeah I shot a stills event on a 5DIV last week, it was years since I'd use an OVF professionally, and I absolutely LOVED it. To the point I'm thinking about grabbing a DSLR. 5DIII/5DIV or D780..

Nah I don't agree.. Nikon are in a coma.. at 2200€ for a Z6ii that can't even do internal log or 10-bit it's a hard no in 2023. Obviously an 8-bit cam is still usable and yeah it can do 10-bit external but best value it is not. I do like the company so I hope they wake up and announce the much anticipated Z8 with a maximum Z9 features in a more affordable package. Best value in FF has to be Panasonic with S5ii now that they've finally sorted out PDAF. Also nice they don't over charge here in EU like Canon & Sony are doing.

All he mentions is XAVC-HS which is the low bitrate LongGop codec. But he doesn't specify 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 or ambient temp etc. At the highest bitrate this guy got 15 minutes in 4K60p indoors 20 degrees Celsius. Also the recovery times seem terrible:

@Emanuel Not that simple, don't forget its also codec dependant. 8-bit xavc-s won't overheat nearly as fast as 10-bit xavc-i. Also depends on the bitrate (long gop vs all-i). And ambient temperature. That's why some tests show only a couple minutes before overheating and others get hours. The frame rate is just one part of the equation. I'm sure AI features reduce time as well. And since it can even overheat while browsing menus you have to also be mindful of that. Basically I wouldn't trust this camera for anything else than b-roll or as a c-cam.

what about sound? is it captured using the FX30 XLR handle and if so what mic?

@newfoundmass I'd say Sony is expecting precisely your friends pattern. They want to lure in young newbies into their ecosystem with ZV-E1 and then have them upgrade to a more capable camera once they outgrow the limitations. Most noobs don't directly invest in the most expensive flagship. I think his point was the 30mn record limit made A7iii a no go. As for C100mkII, meh.. that old sensor does not do good in low-light. I also find 4K/6K/8K invaluable for that type of work if you're on solo cam for punch-ins in post. I could actually see the new AI auto frame stuff being handy for quick turnover long format situations where you might not be able to move around like in a locked audience perspective stage performance. Obviously not the ZV-E1 but that tech in the next Sony cams may have potential.

Ah.. I see in the fine print of "Power Saving Mode" the restrictions (RAW, 8K mp4, XF-AVC Intra etc). So what does that leave you with? up to 4K60p mp4 & 8K XF-AVC Long GOP ?

I just watched the Japanese interview with auto-translation and what the rep says is 30% increased battery life in 4K60p (there is even a little text insert in the bottom right that confirms it at 20:14). I don't see no mention of it being only for XF-AVC but that might have been lost in translation so I trust its correct. From my understandings, XF-AVC is where the R5C battery drainage is the worst so makes sense that they managed to fix that. I wonder what the increase is for regular 4K24/25/30p. 30% or more? They explain the fan is the main culprit of the power drainage so this low power mode may turn it down or something. This is quite the game changer as with a grip and 2 batteries that's 60% battery gain which should make it quite decent right? The photo/video switch time improvement is also good news. Man, I had ruled this camera out but might be warming up to it again! Kudos to Canon for such a solid update. They've been on a roll with them lately.