Django

I hate the floaty gimbal look too, but IBIS is nice for eliminating micro jitters & shake. Not to mention IBIS can be crazy useful for low light stills shooting as well. Anyways I think Canon can & will implement IBIS.. FF 4K..dual card slots etc. Some of it is limited by tech but some of it is also held out as an upgrade path to upcoming models. Canon are pros at product segmentation. Let's remember Sony didn't have IBIS, 4K, dual card slots etc on their first gen A7.. and putting everything in A73 has complicated A7S3 development.

Lens IS is nice but cmon it isn't available on most lenses including the new mighty expensive RF 50mm F1.2 & 24-70 F2.. they need to implement IBIS ASAP imo.

Don't forget 1DX2 does 4K60p at APS-H format which is still larger sensor coverage than any of the competition. As well as some of the best 120fps at 1080p. So Canon aren't that far behind tech wise when they want to. In fact i believe 1DX2 was by far first to do 4K60p in a hybrid cam. It's hence quite forseeable that the higher end pro model mirrorless Canon have been hinting at will inherit 1DX2 specs and maybe even give us FF 4K. IBIS however hasn't been done in any Canon camera AFAIK and really needs to happen soon. Fuji did it, less than 2 years after claiming it was impossible so I don't see why a camera company with as much R&D as Canon couldn't solve it either.

yep as i stated after my first hands-on, the RF lenses really bring out full FHD resolve power (especially RF 50mm F1.2). I got laughed at for mentioning RF lenses brought EOS R IQ close to C100 but that sentiment stands, I even had to check if RF footage was shot in 4K or FHD it was that detailed.. which is why again i feel EOS R + RF combo is greater sum than parts.

The problem with Jon is he clearly has zero interest in EOS R (or Nikon Z, XT3, P4K etc). His only purpose in these threads is to point out the cameras limitations ad eternum & try and prove how superior his own camera is (currently A7III, formerly GH5). He isn't the only member using such tactics.. they exist on every gear forum, but often times it gets quite snarky, borderline troll.. and threads get derailed like this one right now.. again.

I think what Andrew is asking is if it's comparing EOS R DPAF vs 6D2 OVF off-sensor AF (vs 6D2 DPAF via Liveview). And the answer is yes. It's also a pretty low-stress test (daylight, isolated subjects). I started seeing even bigger miss rates in low-light / low-contrast subjects.

Similar test results just posted in the Nikon Z thread using the FTZ adapter (vs D850). So yeah not a shocker DSLR > MILC using adapted glass but still a bummer though considering how few (and expensive) native RF/S glass is at the moment. This is definitely an area where Fuji & Sony currently have a lead advantage.

FF on EOS R isn't oversampled AFAIK. When you set it to 4K and record 1080p externally though, I'm pretty sure you get a 4K downsampled feed (as on 1DC/1DX2/5D4). The Mfn-Bar doesn't replace the joystick. AF point selection is made by either the D-pad or the excellent Touch & Drag feature on the display. I find it actually better then the joystick, its faster and by using my left thumb to set AF points, my right thumb can stay on AF-ON. The touch display settings & overall behavior eclipses by far the severely limited one on the A73. The polarizing Mfn-Bar itself I am finding very useful, best setup for me is Kelvin. Being able to change temperature on the fly with a tap or swipe has never been so effective. Lens control ring is fantastic idea, you can even get it declicked for smooth aperture control. If innovation makes competition 'less desirable' so be it. Warming up to the flip screen too. Overall ergonomics & deep level of customization are really strong points of this camera imo. YMMV.

No debate, just trolling by the usual suspects.. if you look back my comment that started the flame i specified: Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach. i.e i'd like to see some none high contrast nikon profile footage to better judge this cam. That said Nikon Flat & Fuji's Eterna are about the only baked video "profiles" i can tolerate.

1DX2 does APS-H 4K60p. Nikon Z is 10-bit external as per Canon R.. nice but not 99% nice. if APS-C is enough then look no further then Fuji XT3.. 10-bit internal, 4K60p..FLOG / Eterna etc.. for $1500. or wait for XH2 with IBIS. or Pana S1 with FF RAW video.. always something better around the corner.. heh #neverendingstory

@wolf33d Just about every sports/news/event shooter. they don't have time/space to Raw edit 4000 shots a day. A lot of TV and even film also prefer ProRes to Raw for similar reasons.

@wolf33d I 'm talking SOOC.. not RAW where you can push DR etc around as you seem fit. @Nikkor I don't agree about Canon lenses being high contrast, I do think Zeiss/Leica lenses are notoriously so (infamous German look)

Ain't that the truth.. tired of hearing how "soft" Canon IQ is.. I could just as easily turn it around and say GH5 is nasty over sharpened & supersampled A7X ends up looking videoish. Had a go at Z7 & XT3 the other day, all really capable cameras albeit each with their own quirks.. but really there is no excuse to hate on any of these latest-gen units. That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat..

Well you know what they say one mans junk.. another mans treasure.. In the EOS R thread, everybody is complaining about footage looking too soft, and in here & other places ( *cough GH5 *) about it looking oversharpened etc lol Shooting/Grading & profile is probably at fault but Nikon definitely has a hard contrasty look to it, even in photography.. always has always will. Some love it, some hate it. Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach. Btw I had a quick go at the Z7 w/ kit lens the other day.. and found the combo rather dull & uninspiring from an ergonomical/shooting/lens mojo point of view. Love the Nikon color science though, and I did find the video AF transitions to be silky smooth when they didn't miss (which fortunately was not often, unlike broken DPAF on EOSR) .

yeah i should probably pick up that nifty fifty.. only hundred bucks.. or maybe even the 40mm f2.8 STM pancake for a little extra reach! the sluggish USM performance is killing it for me

Day & night DPAF performance using RF/STM lenses (vs USM).. of which i currently own none atm unfortunately.. So guess that leaves RF/EF-S/Sigma lens choice for smooth DPAF... ?

Yeah I also traded in gear and even got a discount so hardly put up anything for the camera. Of course that doesn't mean I won't dump it if it severely underperforms. I don't wanna sound too harsh though as I've really not spent much time with the camera yet and big heavy adapted USM glass is probably far from optimal usage. I can't wait to try out the RF 35mm 1.8 IS lens, really sucks it isn't available on launch, hardly any test pics or footage from it either..

For stills the AF is 100 times snappier than video AF, and in single point it does fine. Except in low contrast situations and this is where i fear that EOS-R's phase only AF may be at fault. There are some advantages over DSLR's such as full coverage and the touch&drag feature is pretty neat, perhaps even faster then joystick control, especially for a lefty like me since i can set AF point control to left side and keep my right thumb on AF-ON (i'm a back button focus shooter). As of right now, I can't really say I'd recommend EOS-R unless you are a hardcore Canon shooter and even then, this would be a B-cam to your 5D/1DX/Cxxx. Z6 is looking like the most promissing new MILC to me with it's hybrid AF system, IBIS etc..

Yes 4k only.. but I fear there are bigger problems at stake. I'm definitely experiencing some major video AF issues. It's laggy, steppy, hunts.. and gets totally lost on low contrast subjects. It is simply nowhere near as accurate and as smooth as my (first gen) C100 DPAF. And even for stills we are nowhere near 5D3 and plus body AF-C. Now do keep in mind I'm only using USM adapted glass, and have heard similar poor AF performance with adapted lenses on the Z too so I don't wanna single out EOS R, but this could be a serious deal breaker if you're counting on using video AF with legacy L glass. This is a preliminary report and will have to try and mess with the sensitivity/speed settings and see if things improve but right now it's not looking good..at all. ?

ok take this information with a grain of salt, it's late and I've only had minutes of test time here & there today and am reviewing random test shots, but it would appear to my eyes that the FHD (EF-S) cropped mode (using EF glass) appears better than the regular FF FHD. Could be placebo effect, no real ways to measure atm, but could it be that Canon has implemented something similar to the 1DC FHD S35 mode, which is known to be superior to FF FHD? I can confirm that external FHD recording when in 4K crop mode renders superior (4K downsampled?) IQ just like the 1DC/1DX2/5D4. FHD FF external to ProRes is also great (to be expected).. Internal FF FHD...meh. Still need to do quite bit testing (haven't even touched 4k yet). So far loving the ergonomics/shooting. DPAF does seem a little laggy/quirky, but haven't messed with all the AF settings. Overall kinda mixed feelings, it's no full replacement to a Canon DSLR/Cxxx.. but does seem to combine many features (& quirks) of the recent Canon line.. TBC

@Mattias Burling I just picked up my pre-order unit from local store, but noticed online this morning there was limited but available (direct purchase) stock at a major retail chain here in paris.. so i'd make some phone calls around if i were you

@mercer Right, no idea about adapted lens support on this feature. I know peaking works with no contact information, dunno if that relates though. Probably should ask C200 owners.

Fair enough, although i wouldn't rule out it's IQ totally until you try it with your own lenses or better footage appears (again a lot of shots in that dpreview are actually closer to 720p which is highly misleading). That being said I am not expecting EOS R to equate let alone beat the C100's FHD IQ which is downsampled from 4K and has great detail, motion etc.. I am hoping EOS R will complement C100 with Full Frame FHD & 4K for super detailed close-up shots. And of course double up as a nice 30MP FF stills shooter. Also looking forward to the more advanced touch based DPAF and also MF Guides (inherited from C200/C300 II) for precise manual rack pulls. Everybody's needs are different though. For me, the real star of this system are the new lenses and paired to the body, sum becomes greater than parts.

The 2 color matrix options? You know I've only spent a couple hours on EOS R and haven't even A/B'd the color matrixes yet. But it's known at some point around C300 mk2 / C200 that Canon Log color science got closer to Alexa (some claiming ARRI LUTs became a perfect match).

@ade towell EOS R is imo the best B-cam to C100. That is how I will be using it. C Log even has a "Cinema EOS Classic" option to match C100/300 color matrix. You must use RF or quality L glass though to get most of it.