vasile

Request:

http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57640350

Thanks

I think someone said that on old firmware versions the photo NR settings would also apply to video. I tried to find the post but could not.

Would a kind soul point me in the right direction, and could someone retest that firmware version to confirm?

Maybe I can dig something out from that firmware to see what they changed for current firmware version.

Edit 2. Just thought: what if each frame is first NR-ed and only afterwards sent to the encoder?

1 hour ago, Marco Tecno said:

the nx1 is a bit better than a6300 noise wise, even at iso 3200, in photo mode. There is something going on in video which destroys the output at high iso.

I do not think what we see in the sample is really high iso noise. I have been looking for two evenings in the NX500 code to try to see how the codec is initialized, looking in the drime kernel driver (see open source NX500 package) and various libraries.

I do not yet understand how/when the codec initialization takes place. In any case if you look at the hevc codec interface source code (kernel/linux-3.5/drivers/media/video/drime5/hevc) you can see that there is definitely no NR switch passed on to the codec (which by the way is a FPGA).

In these files you can see all configurable elements of the codec - unfortunately without explanations, but it is pretty clear to me that NR is not part of them.

Maybe someone who is more of an expert can look into these files to see if I have missed anything.

One interesting thing I noticed there is that apparently the codec admits type-iii gop :-) that seems equivalent to Canon's ALL-I gop - https://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/ipp_ipb_all_i_compare.htmlp

The question is how does the di-camera-app set it.

As for NR, given that there's no switch, unless someone finds it hidden amongst codec parameters (see above for where to look) I am afraid we are SOL.

:-(

Edit: these seem the most interesting files: d5_enc_host_api.c, d5_polarisCodec_host.h and d5_host_params.h - I attach them to this post.

Edit 2: What if the image is denoised before being sent to the codec?

d5_polarisCodec_host.h

d5_enc_host_api.c

d5_host_params.h

3 hours ago, chauncy said:

that is an absurd price, even if it had the s lens.

I know for sure Amazon charge what the market will bear :-) - which is remarkable for a camera more than 18 months old. I will keep an eye on it to see if they do sell it.

As an interesting tidbit: they (amazon.fr) kept the price of the 30mm, for a long time, at 205 EUR, which was, incidentally, precisely what a French brick and mortar chain advertised it for (I think it was one of their last ones). A day after the non-amazon price disappeared, Amazon price suddenly went up to >300 EUR. I wonder why :-)

13 minutes ago, Pavel Mašek said:

Kino Seed just posted video of 2.5K video without noise reduction - http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3990893?page=2#forum-post-57632926

Noise grain is very visible here, but we should realize that it is quite high ISO (6400). I think it would be more usable and subtle in 4K.

It is proof that noise reduction is not built-in the codec - really great news I think.

Vasile/Otto - is there any chance if 4K could be inserted into slot for VGA? Maybe then 4K would be without NR.

I am wondering how it would affect 1080p modes which suffer with high NR above low ISO.

Not sure (read: I have no clue) what is going on in there. It is definitely not any parameter that I could see that is any different between the VGA slot settings and the 1080p settings except the resolution which I replaced in the VGA slot.

Having said that, there are many many parameters set and reset in that general code area and I did not examine them in detail as this would be a very time consuming drudge work.

I would have to step through the entire code between button push and release of controi to RTOS, manually record all parameter values that are sent out to the RTOS, and do it twice: for 1080p and then again for the VGA slot. I do not really want to do it :-(, especially since nothing is guaranteed: it might also turn out to be a matter of codec internal settings - i.e. if input matches preset => apply built-in preset [which might have NR=on] and for everything else, apply generic settings that might have NR=off.

I don't know.

Also, when I was working on the initial bit rate hack, I manually inserted 4k resolution (directly in the CPU registers) at the point where this is passed on to the RTOS, whilst set on 1080p, because I was curious if it would then uncrop it - bad news there, crop stays - but I did not look at all into noise levels.

3 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

The cost of production > the revenue in sales(people will only buy them at a discount now) ...  Simply put it does not make sense for them to make any more lenes

I doubt the BOM is over 200$ for the body, let us say 300 with manufacturing. The rest is retailer markup and getting a return on the investment in IP.

IP investment can be considered sunk cost at this stage. I guess what I am trying to say is incremental cost/camera for Samsung is very very low, once they have written off development costs - which they seem to have done after the restructuring of their imaging division.

So there's nothing to prevent them to continue to make just enough of them so they can still claim it is not discontinued, and keep their options open in case the market recovers.

43 minutes ago, vaga said:

^$1700 is more than I'm willing to pay for this camera, unfortunately. Also, I don't want the regular 16-50 lens.

When they were available, the $1049 body only or kit deals with the mic (like B&H) were attractive.

I am fairly sure they will bring more in, but in an irregular fashion. All elements seem to point to Samsung not officially discontinuing the system and only running short-ish batches of items, depending on received orders. At some point B&H had them as "discontinued" then they got new ones, now they are again out of stock (ok discontinued, although at this stage I won't believe it yet, since they were suddenly "undiscontinued" just a week ago I think).

39 minutes ago, vaga said:

Looks like many of the Samsung lenses are on sale right now (including $300 off each of the S Lenses) at B&H.

Unfortunately, the NX1 camera body seems to be discontinued everywhere. (Sad news for people like me that don't want to buy used camera bodies).

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Wireless-Smart-Camera-16-50mm/dp/B00V5UDU60/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461082163&sr=8-2&keywords=nx1

But please do not buy it in the hope that more capabilities would be unlocked by anyone. Nothing is guaranteed. See here why: http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57624059.

21 hours ago, Pavel Mašek said:

I am wondering that there is no report about quality of highbitrate 2.5K mode by some of NX500 users (Vasile's latest high bitrate hack for NX500). It was so demanded...

demanded != being useful/used.

8 hours ago, /Chop N Shoot Films/ said:

could the following be used on the NX1?

 

From here: http://x265.readthedocs.org/en/default/cli.html

 

--nr-intra <integer>, --nr-inter <integer>

Noise reduction - an adaptive deadzone applied after DCT (subtracting from DCT coefficients), before quantization. It does no pixel-level filtering, doesn’t cross DCT block boundaries, has no overlap, The higher the strength value parameter, the more aggressively it will reduce noise.

Enabling noise reduction will make outputs diverge between different numbers of frame threads. Outputs will be deterministic but the outputs of -F2 will no longer match the outputs of -F3, etc.

Values: any value in range of 0 to 2000. Default 0 (disabled).

AFAIK x265 != Samsung codec. Unless you have proof to the contrary...

1 hour ago, vaga said:

@Vasile to make sure I understand v2.0 and 3.0 correctly, now you set bitrates you want for Pro and HQ?

So for example, if I use Otto's new script hack version, I can set Pro to say 150Mbps and HQ to 100Mbps so if I have a fast card I can use Pro or if I have a slower card I can use HQ?

That is one possibility. The options are there, how you use them depends on what your needs are.

Mod update for NX500 users here: http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57619677

NX1 users can stay on v2.0, no change - yet ;-) - for them.

Enjoy...

1 hour ago, /Chop N Shoot Films/ said:

There's an option in the menu turn NR off for photos. Wouldn't that be a starting point to figure out how to do it for video? 

Yes but not necessarily the best. I like more the nrmenable st cap live parameter from here: https://github.com/ottokiksmaler/nx500_nx1_modding/blob/master/ST%20Commands.md

If I could find where it is set in di-camera-app I'd be in business.

eoshd is the "other" board mentioned here :-)

http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57589144

2 minutes ago, Pavel Mašek said:

120 fps works fine with 110Mbit as max bitrate. 100fps should be completely fine even with 160Mbits...

Which means that the encoder block cannot deal with more than this bitrate at that size/fps. No other possible explanation so do not expect more from the camera as far as 1080p/120fps is concerned, unless you are willing to overclock.

8 minutes ago, /Chop N Shoot Films/ said:

Since 120fps doesn't play nice with the bitrate hack has anyone tried PAL 100fps?  I feel like that should work without issue since the hack brings the 120fps recordings down to 106fps.

As I wrote earlier, you should gradually decrease the mod bitrate for that video mode and check what this does to overall fps.

At some point you will reach the point where the fps gets back to 120, at some max bitrate that will also depend on your card. Do not assume that max video bitrate for the camera is the same regardless of video size and fps combination because this is not true.

The encoder workload is different between these even if the target bitrate is the same.

Whilst we may start to play with the CPU speed/power profiles, and might be able to overclock it, I am not sure this is advisable - I think Samsung chose their power profiles based on engineering constraints and target environment factors (e.g. extreme usage like in the Nevada desert) with some margin too, but this does not mean that we should start playing with the fire.

Unless you are willing to risk your camera's reliability and lifetime.

20 minutes ago, Pavel Mašek said:

Yes, I do not understand that too - it behaves in exactly opposite way.

Yes, that would be very useful.

Overall top fps depends on multiple pipelines: sensor=>CPU, CPU=> memory, memory=>card, as well as on codec intrinsic speed. Hard to say which one impacts in this instance but my guess is that it's the codec (and by codec I mean the software and hardware together).

You might think that the encoding CPU is less taxed with higher output rates but IMO that is not completely/always true.

4 hours ago, pressland said:

and sharpening.

I also dream of having Gamma DR on the NX500, but all the effort so far is very much appreciated

I talk about reasonable possibilities that I see based on my current knowledge of NX innards.

You talk about dreams/expectations.

Two entirely different beasts.

1 hour ago, iamoui said:

Quick question. Seeing as how you have to remove the battery for a short time then re-insert it, how would the vertical battery grip affect this? Should I be able to remove the grip to load the bitrate hack, then re-attach it? Thanks in advance.

Battery pull means no battery whatsoever, the camera should have no power source. Turning off is not enough. If you have two batteries you need to pull both.

Will add this clarification to the next mod version.

19 minutes ago, SMGJohn said:

Thanks mate, I cannot wait for the 60mbps replacement for 25fps 1080p as it seems 1080p is the only one substantially benefiting from bitrate increase at least to the eye.

Nice work non the less, you deserve many shekels and gratitudes! 

Read the README.txt ;-) and also take a look at nx-bitrate-map.png

Useful (I hope) for both NX1 and NX500 users: http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57583300

19 minutes ago, RieGo said:

just tried "st app nx record start" and "st app nx record stop". works just as expected, starts and stops video recording. but i have no clue how to use the resolution parameter... i tried but couldn't get to change anything.
is this even what you are thinking about? i have no clue 

resolution [show,name] -> this arguments seem like only predefined resolutions can be used

resolution [show, name] means you can use resolution show or resolution name.

Presumably resolution show would list available names to be used as "name" parameter for resolution "name"

Poll: burner NX500 for a chance [NB not a guarantee] to get "production" 2K5 high bitrate?

http://***URL removed***/forums/post/57572799

rgds

25 minutes ago, SMGJohn said:

From what I noticed the bitrate hack does not work with 1080p at all for me, I use PAL mode, and I did everything the readme file said. Still only uses the same bitrate for 1080p as it always have, only UHD and 4k seem to get a bitrate increase with the hack.

read page 132 of this: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201511/20151102105725627/NX1_English.pdf

The mod currently replaces the instances of 80 Mbit/s from the table with whatever you pick. Other values are not currently affected.

I plan to also enable changing some of the other values but you will need to be patient.

Again, every setting combination that uses 80 Mbits/sec on the original firmware is replaced by my mod. The other values are not. My bet is you try to use a combination that results in 60 Mbit/s with the original firmware and that one stays on 60.