PannySVHS

In fact, same here : ) And seems 6K 50p or 60p can be an interesting route to justify it ; ) I second what you say, mate, so it's under my radar these days...
This customary specs list is always a pain for lacking what FF and crop (thinking about those new anamorphic AF releases, OK I confess! LOL ; ) is, respectively, from there:

 
EDIT -- OK, here is then:

source
 
As Andrew has defended, that massive ProRes bitrate is a source of concern no doubt... I wonder (and following their video tradition and customer care) if not possible to overcome it along next firmware updates?

So the forum is pretty good at the moment thanks to some spicy discussions, it would be boring if we all agreed all the time, but I also think we should encourage people to come back - big names from before like Mattias Burling , Dave Maze, they are missed. Maybe we could occasionally drop them a note to say so. I can't promote the forum myself, it just looks like I am spamming people with my blog.
Maybe that's where you all come in 🙂
Would some of you be willing to post a few links here and there in popular Reddit groups, on DPReview and on social media groups?
It would supercharge the place and get us noticed more... Then we'd have some great discussions with new people, and regain some control over the camera community in an independent way, rather than everything being hoovered up by the big US social media giants who are opening supporting a fascist regime at the moment.
Never been a better moment to get our independence back from social media.
Mark Zuckenberg and those like him are pure evil.
The forum way is a better way.
It offers everyone here a higher profile and higher involvement.
The better our content, the better the discussions, the more people will come...
I know a lot of forum posts have to reference other people's talking point or content, so a topic can devolve into lots and lots of URLs to social media, or YouTube video embeds.
But rather than have rules around this, which I don't want to do, it would be great if we could encourage people to join who will use the forum a bit like having their own blog - Posting original hands-on opinions and content about cameras and shooting... Our own insight is better than constantly referring to that of others - It would be good for the community.
Just some thoughts and open to more ideas too about how to grow this rather nice place that we've got.

@Emanuel RS in 6K/4K 60p full frame is around 15.5ms, so pretty good and not an issue for most scenarios. I am not fond of the 22ms in 24p 8k/4k, especially not the latter. What I could take away from the online footage is a lush creamyness of textures which I really like, high resolution without oversharpening.

I got the Vivitar 1 alteration of the Bokina. I'd call it the steelhammer version. It is so robust and tough. Mine has a ca 1/3" × 1/4" × 1/4" chunk of steel chipped off miraculously by a former owner, maybe in a steelhammer manner. It still operates like a charm. This lens is crazy regarding built. What a beasty lens. I have only used it once or twice many years ago. I must change that. Which Viv I lenses do you have? @Ninpo33We could do a Vivitar cinema verité piece or any kind of video and share it here.
I got the Bokina and a Vivitar 35mm 1.9, which I wouldnt consider in the same league as the Bokina. I'm pretty sure the 35mm is not a lens from the I series. The 28mm F2 looks beautiful. Must be a pleasure to hold and use.
It's a shame I left that gem collecting dust. As it comes to my mind, I even have a converter for it, changing it into a 60 or 65mm lens. This lens is a good reason for some solid tripod fun!
Back to topic. If the S1RII has a creamy look like a C500II with absence of oversharpening, it could be a tempting prospect of Gas. Better not.:)

@Emanuel RS in 6K/4K 60p full frame is around 15.5ms, so pretty good and not an issue for most scenarios. I am not fond of the 22ms in 24p 8k/4k, especially not the latter. What I could take away from the online footage is a lush creamyness of textures which I really like, high resolution without oversharpening.

We could meet in Berlin, though I have mostly done photo safaris but hardly any video rides with friends. I went on a cinema verité tour by myself last year for a couple of days, with my og pocket and a 25mm Cmount lens. S1H with the Vivitar 90mm and a tripod is rather something for a single filmer expedition I imagine and a rather unsocial affair of carrying and sweating heavily:)@Emanuel
Hardly any videos on youtube from the 10bit fullframe league by Sony, Canon and Panasonic have wowed me. Nikon Z6III looked awesome in the skating video. A real stand out regarding motion, texture and colour. I also admired some Canon R7 videos for their colour. I'm interested to see how the S1RII will be put to use. Panasonic had one impressive launch video for the GH6 from a french director which was a true showcase. All the other GH6 videos were again rather generic imho.

Man, do we meet? When? ; ) Tomorrow I will meet some Polish EOSHD user I crossed my life with over these same pages. He will be with his Fuji and I will be with my FX30 and some vintage glass, that is, if I will locally find an adapter till tomorrow... I am done with Amazon's local courier (CTT Express failed their delivery for today!).
Any pics from those setups BTW?
PS: Andrew could organise a meeting for those users interested to test my spoken English skills! LOL ;- )

I got the Vivitar 1 alteration of the Bokina. I'd call it the steelhammer version. It is so robust and tough. Mine has a ca 1/3" × 1/4" × 1/4" chunk of steel chipped off miraculously by a former owner, maybe in a steelhammer manner. It still operates like a charm. This lens is crazy regarding built. What a beasty lens. I have only used it once or twice many years ago. I must change that. Which Viv I lenses do you have? @Ninpo33We could do a Vivitar cinema verité piece or any kind of video and share it here.
I got the Bokina and a Vivitar 35mm 1.9, which I wouldnt consider in the same league as the Bokina. I'm pretty sure the 35mm is not a lens from the I series. The 28mm F2 looks beautiful. Must be a pleasure to hold and use.
It's a shame I left that gem collecting dust. As it comes to my mind, I even have a converter for it, changing it into a 60 or 65mm lens. This lens is a good reason for some solid tripod fun!
Back to topic. If the S1RII has a creamy look like a C500II with absence of oversharpening, it could be a tempting prospect of Gas. Better not.:)

DRE is only available in the 5.8k and above higher res modes if I remember correctly. Also, read out speeds at 4k and super 35 are below 15s rolling shutter at 60p so very usable. 
 
Also, I love the ”Bokina”. I have several of the older Tokina/Vivitar Series 1 lenses and they are really a bargain for the image they produce and the build quality. 

I don't watch these s/cam promoters. I am interested in our footage and discoveries, like we used to share much more in pre 10bit full frame times. I want to see a Tokina 24-40 in action, mounted on a camera of your choice. I still got mine and what a character lens it is, very gloomy at 2.8, mechanically a joy to use. I'd mount mine on my S1H for some 10bit HD 120p or the Tokina Bokina on a tripod in 120p pixel to pixel mode. Old song, as old as the ones about shill cam channels.
Back to topic. Does DRE work in S35 and pixel to pixel 4k? That could provide an acceptable readout speed for DRE use.
 

@PannySVHS@ita149 This guy has some footage to download in a range of codecs if you want to work with it a bit. I have and while there is not much, I am at least seeing there is no longer the need to pull greens out of the midtones, which is a standard proceedure for me with my S1 VLog footage.
Curious what you see & think regarding the color smearing in skin tones. (Also appreciate that this might not be the best footage to evaluate that concern.)
Edit: youtube video linked now! (sorry sorry)

Indeed this is where the real-world perspective helps. If a camera isn't designed to run in the highest quality mode for hours of continuous monologue, don't use it for that. Show us instead what it can do and what it's suited to. Unless there's a serious issue like with the EOS R5 at release where 30 or so photos in live-view locks you out of shooting 30 seconds of 8K for half an hour at a time!!!
I don't use my Sigma Fp-L in Cinema DNG as a Twitch streaming cam!
What next? GFX 100 for OnlyFans?
It's the imaginary user he has in his head that's the problem isn't it? He doesn't quite have the average filmmaker in mind.
Indeed and this is what fucking pisses me off about it.
The Sigma Fp for example is an cine-art tool, it isn't a webcam.
And he gave it a shit review because for his use-case of pointing it at himself doing selfies with autofocus on a tripod it wasn't optimal.
Had he gone outside with it and shot a mood piece of nature and beauty in Cinema DNG, with a great sound track over the top maybe he'd have appreciate it more.
His rant about not showing us any beauty and how he justified that was pathetic. As if he was looking down at art altogether and saying look how fucking irrelevant it is to camera reviews.
It's the whole fucking point of a fucking camera you fucking dick.
 

It's a sweet successor of the S5II, this S5III sports a great mixture of new features such as 6K60p in full frame with great 60p, being very close in quality to 30p, 45Mpix stills, S1H screen mechanism, eventually a very satisfying shutter sound and feel. And 8K video for the closeup of the bride. 😊
@ND64 They like the SRII for these features: Readout in full frame 6K60p is 15.6ms. Vertical pixelbinning in 60p is providing great quality, which is very close to 30p. They also like the 8K. Battery life is above average for hires 45Mpix cameras, dynamic range is impressive. Best in class Ibis and lowlight capabilities. Great ergo, handling and AF in video.
Despite being such a nice package, people manage to film shilly  footage with it. Macky is one of the very few who put effort into showing off the capabilities of a camera. He loves the colour btw.
Further tests will show, if there is mushyness at higher isos like from the A7SIII. It looks like 4K60 is much better on the SRII vs the Sony, despite having ca four times more pixels, 45Mpix vs 12Mpix.
If colour and codecs are og S1 and S1H level, I'd call it a contender. If overheating is a non issue in practical use, I'd call it a winner.

Awesome post! Spot on! Fundamental overview regarding Panny cameras.  @Andrew Reid
Marketing and communication with the GH4 and GH5 was exellent. Matt Frazer was allowed to do the perfectly right thing. It was exiting to follow the news and to watch the footage. This forum was overflowing with high quality posts and discussions. The launch of the GH5s was already lacking. Their box cameras not sporting NDs is another underwhelming marketing decision. So close yet so far.
Their product palette is chaotic. No 10bit GX9 successor, akward releases like a G90, G100 or before that GF5, 7, 8. This was not helping sales nor Pannys reputation to say the least.
Is there any native L mount 28mm 2.8 pancake lens out there for full frame sensor coverage? 35, 50, 70, no? Bummer. I think there are some for apsc coverage. Another missed out opportunity, especially in combination with the S9.
I know i would have bought a S9 with mechanical shutter and evf and a 28 and 50mm pancake. I dislike taking photos without a mechanical shutter. M39 route for small affordable lenses with a short mount? I guess so. Fiddling around, being an adapter juggler can be fun.:)
S1RII is a nice camera and release with S5III being a better name. It's accompanied by lacklustre marketing and communication. The S1RIII looks good by itself. Pannys surrounding enviroment does not at the moment.
 

It's a sweet successor of the S5II, this S5III sports a great mixture of new features such as 6K60p in full frame with great 60p, being very close in quality to 30p, 45Mpix stills, S1H screen mechanism, eventually a very satisfying shutter sound and feel. And 8K video for the closeup of the bride. 😊
@ND64 They like the SRII for these features: Readout in full frame 6K60p is 15.6ms. Vertical pixelbinning in 60p is providing great quality, which is very close to 30p. They also like the 8K. Battery life is above average for hires 45Mpix cameras, dynamic range is impressive. Best in class Ibis and lowlight capabilities. Great ergo, handling and AF in video.
Despite being such a nice package, people manage to film shilly  footage with it. Macky is one of the very few who put effort into showing off the capabilities of a camera. He loves the colour btw.
Further tests will show, if there is mushyness at higher isos like from the A7SIII. It looks like 4K60 is much better on the SRII vs the Sony, despite having ca four times more pixels, 45Mpix vs 12Mpix.
If colour and codecs are og S1 and S1H level, I'd call it a contender. If overheating is a non issue in practical use, I'd call it a winner.

Awesome post! Spot on! Fundamental overview regarding Panny cameras.  @Andrew Reid
Marketing and communication with the GH4 and GH5 was exellent. Matt Frazer was allowed to do the perfectly right thing. It was exiting to follow the news and to watch the footage. This forum was overflowing with high quality posts and discussions. The launch of the GH5s was already lacking. Their box cameras not sporting NDs is another underwhelming marketing decision. So close yet so far.
Their product palette is chaotic. No 10bit GX9 successor, akward releases like a G90, G100 or before that GF5, 7, 8. This was not helping sales nor Pannys reputation to say the least.
Is there any native L mount 28mm 2.8 pancake lens out there for full frame sensor coverage? 35, 50, 70, no? Bummer. I think there are some for apsc coverage. Another missed out opportunity, especially in combination with the S9.
I know i would have bought a S9 with mechanical shutter and evf and a 28 and 50mm pancake. I dislike taking photos without a mechanical shutter. M39 route for small affordable lenses with a short mount? I guess so. Fiddling around, being an adapter juggler can be fun.:)
S1RII is a nice camera and release with S5III being a better name. It's accompanied by lacklustre marketing and communication. The S1RIII looks good by itself. Pannys surrounding enviroment does not at the moment.
 

I think Panasonic just need to show a bit of creativity and throw a bit of weight behind the new stuff, they have clearly had to deal with some budget and R&D cutbacks, also perhaps the retirement of some of the old guard engineers from the earlier days. The marketing and product strategy is the biggest problem though, from my point of view. The lenses side is a disaster. It's so important to get this right when establishing a new mount. Mistakes too numerous to mention with L-mount, with the latest being the S9 launch with a pinhole F8 lens rather than waiting 2 months for the compact 16mm zoom to be ready to sell with it from the off.
In terms of creativity, they've spent too long trying to imitate Sony's product strategy but in a weird way. So the S1 was to be the 'basic' model like the a7, except now it isn't...
So the S5 came along instead, and the S1 appears to be dead. Imagine if Sony had introduced the original a7, left it there on the shelf for 5 years and then replaced it with an a5?
Instead Sony built a big system around one badge... a7 is now a huge range of stuff. a7r, a7c, a7s, and the flagships are different numbers so you can tell that they're different. a1 and a9.
Right down to the "R" models, and an a7s type model for video (S1H) Panasonic has tried to mimic the basic strategy of the a7 cameras but mishandled the implementation.
For a start the S1H should have been "Cinema Lumix" branded so people understood it had cinema features not just video.
Still missing from the range are any a7c rangefinder style bodies, R or otherwise!
We have the s9 but it isn't equipped with an EVF.
The S1R Mark II is NOT a bad camera. I repeat NOT. Neither is the S9, it's great fun.
It is the circumstances around them which are the problem and I believe will kill its chances on the market vs other brand options both new and used.
I also think that if you're going to start finally after 7 years also copying the sensible Sony approach of unified ergonomics and similar body designs / sizes aka Sony a7 III vs a9, or a7 IV vs a1, and now the latest evolution with the a9 III and a1 II, don't fucking use your cheapest most uninspired-to-use entry level body as the basis for this. Yeah, yeah I know Sony started the same way, but this was in 2012!
The standard of Sony's rivals to the S5 and S1R now  (the a7 IV and a7r V) are at a much higher level than the entry level 2012 a7 / a7r series, they're a decades worth of evolution.
Panasonic has only evolved the S5 body once, and now the S1R II is lumbered with it a gen 2 design when it should by now have been a gen 4 or 5.
That is to say, the S1R II should have evolved from 2018 onwards from the original flagship, NOT a pause and THEN stuffed into a mid-range body.
It's the same with the G9 II... Great camera, great spec, totally uninspired body design with angular sharp edges and weird button placement. Rear jog dial is also shite.
This is the sort of thing the Japanese kaizen is supposed to iron out over the years.
They are not like Apple where they come out with a really strong design straight off the bat, they are iterative designers.
Considering Panasonic started with mirrorless cameras before anybody else, they have had enough time to refine things.
But I think the problem is they have chopped and changed so often, it's as if they start from scratch every few years.
Let's consider the evidence...
GH1/GH2 - lovely small intuitive cameras, and yeah, filmmaker's kept saying they were like toys, too much plastic but could have evolved into something really nice with the same compact design, just with higher quality materials and an AF joystick. The basic layout was fantastic.
Instead they were COMPLETELY thrown out for the GH3 / GH4 body design, the 'pro' DSLR look.
OK fine, so this was 2013 and now you have 10 years to evolve a set mirrorless camera concept... but no.
These evolved only once into the GH5 which was a lot better but then they chucked that out as well and started again with the clunky GH6, thick vents and all.
And look at the G9... Why throw out the original design for the S5 body?
They have scrapped more camera concepts than Fran in Barcelona.

It's a sweet successor of the S5II, this S5III sports a great mixture of new features such as 6K60p in full frame with great 60p, being very close in quality to 30p, 45Mpix stills, S1H screen mechanism, eventually a very satisfying shutter sound and feel. And 8K video for the closeup of the bride. 😊
@ND64 They like the SRII for these features: Readout in full frame 6K60p is 15.6ms. Vertical pixelbinning in 60p is providing great quality, which is very close to 30p. They also like the 8K. Battery life is above average for hires 45Mpix cameras, dynamic range is impressive. Best in class Ibis and lowlight capabilities. Great ergo, handling and AF in video.
Despite being such a nice package, people manage to film shilly  footage with it. Macky is one of the very few who put effort into showing off the capabilities of a camera. He loves the colour btw.
Further tests will show, if there is mushyness at higher isos like from the A7SIII. It looks like 4K60 is much better on the SRII vs the Sony, despite having ca four times more pixels, 45Mpix vs 12Mpix.
If colour and codecs are og S1 and S1H level, I'd call it a contender. If overheating is a non issue in practical use, I'd call it a winner.

So the 6K 60p is a crop with vertical binning according to Slashcam, but still very good detail:
https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-LUMIX-S1R-II-Sensor-Bildqualitaet---Debayering--Rolling-Shutter-und-Dynamik--Rolling-Shutter---Panaso.html#4KDebayeringPanasonic

Slashcam said the S5II had a flawless and quite "cinematic" video rendering in their review. This is not true at all, the bad processing just destroy the fine details, even more in 4k. So I would take their words with a grain of salt for now.
And I found very strange all these reviews showing there is still a good amount of moiré whereas in the video of hopkinsfilms the S1RII looks even better than the S1H.
Also it's hard to say because of Youtube compression but I found a video from Vistek showing a comparison between the R5II and S1RII in 8K, and like on the S5II I wonder if these are not the same smoothed out details on skin texture that I can see on the S1RII. His forehead looks more blurred on the S1RII (right image).


Never mind, I already pre-ordered the camera, I will compare the video engine to my S1 and S5II, but if it is close to the S5II, I will return the camera this time.

One other thought is that they (LUMIX) have not helped themselves with the naming strategy.
S1Rii sets certain expectations.
Why not simply name it something new such as S6?
It’s a modified S5ii more than anything and sits above, so S6 makes most sense to me.
 

Perhaps it would be an S3 by hierarchy then. But yes, I get your point and definitely agree. There were more hybrid/video improvements than photo, I may be wrong though.
 
Perhaps the general reception is mixed since the expectation was already set for what the R is focusing in on. Maybe R is for resolution now (44mp + 8k recording) not just stills…?
The camera is fine though. I’m still surprised we’re debating this heavy about a (supposedly) photo first-camera with photo-first compromises on a video-focused forum but let’s be honest and call it like it is: it was DOA for most people not for what the camera could ultimately be but for how behind and underdeveloped LUMIX let their PRO flagship lineup and lens roadmap get in the eyes of the current and potential customers. And uncertain brand confidence in future product releases, making investing in the mount a hesitant choice. The outrage is less puzzling to me when I view it from that angle. But remember, pre- Z9, Nikon also faced the same challenges in brand confidence and future uncertainty. Now folks are switching to Z8, what a time.
 

Slashcam tested 6K 60p with exellent results on a 4K timeline, almost as detailed and with resolution like 24 to 30p. No moire nor aliasing nor any other artefacts. Readout in that mode was tested with a result of 15.6ms.

At least for me the AF works and works and then out of the blue decides to just lock on some where out of the focus box and refuse to let go, or keep focus on the subject ( not just people ) but slightly in front or behind.
Funny enough when I had the GH4 and GH5 I used AF, but always know when to just not bother and flip over to MF!

We don't need another Z8; we need better than the Z8 and Slashcam's DR testing already shows that the S1Rii is just that. 
I took a long look at the Z8 and what turned me off from it was 1) no mechanical shutter option, and 2) not great H.265 implimentation - compression artifacts compared to it's ProRes and RAW options. This was a no-go for me as LOG in H.264/265 is where I live.